Pope Kisses the Waldensian Bible --- Pope Francis, Don Bosco and the Waldensians

(Turin) last Monday, 22 June Pope Francis appeared in the main church of the Vaudois, the day after his pilgrimage to the grave Shroud of Turin in the Piedmontese capital.

It was a scene that was recorded photographically. The Waldensian pastors handed Pope Francis their Bible that the Pope kissed before their eyes.

A "disturbing" image, says Chiesa e postconcilio . "What does the great catechism of St. Pius X, # 887. What should a Christian do if he is offered a Bible by a Protestant or an emissary of the Protestants? Answer: When a Christian of a is offered a bible by a Protestant or an envoy, he must reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church; when he accepts it, not noticing, then he must throw it immediately into the fire or deliver his pastor." As far as radio Spada thinks of the episode, what Pius X. here recommends Christians recommends, so too did St. John Bosco, as he stood against the Waldenses.

Pope Francis has entered as the first Catholic Church leader, into a Waldensian Temple. Certainly it's an historic moment. The Catholic Church leader is quoted in his address to the Waldensian from the Scriptures and that - as expressly stated - in a "interconfessional version".

Francis apologized to the Waldenses for everything that was done to them by Catholics: "On the part of the Catholic Church, I ask you for forgiveness for the unchristian and even inhuman attitudes and actions, which we have done in history against you. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, forgive us! "

The Moderator of the Waldensian Table, Pastor Eugenio Bernardini replied: "The Pope has overcome a wall that was built eight centuries ago when our church was accused and excommunicated by the Roman church of heresy." The pope did not argue.

The Waldensian movement originated as mendicants in 12th century Lyon from the teachings of the merchant Peter Valdes. They understood themselves in response to the civil power then exerted by the Roman Church. Today, they are commonly referred to as aligned to Calvinist Protestants. They practice a number of errors that have similarities with the Donatists. St. Augustine said of these heretics: "In many ways, the heretics are with me in some others, not; but because of these few points, where they separate from me, it does not help them in everything else to be with me." (In Psa. 54, no. 19, PL 36, 641).

Historically, it is also important that about half of the adherents were liberals and Freemasons in the 19th century who crossed over from the Catholic Church to the Waldenses. This fact and its liberal attitude meant that they had a lot of weight in spite of their small numbers in state-supporting circles of Turin.

"These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians proudly repeat and disseminate; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed."

Don Bosco As Pope Francis in Turin attended a Waldensian Temple, it is good to remember St. John Bosco, who had done great things in this city. So great that Francis also paid a visit to the Centre of the Salesian Order, founded in the Valdocco in Turin by Don Bosco with the large church of Mary Help of Christians. The Saint lived from 1815 - 1888 and experienced at that time the Italian unification movement, which was to smash the Papal States in 1870.

The Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, with its anticlerical-Masonic state doctrine prepared big trouble for the Piedmontese saint. . As the state persecution finally subsided, then entered these Waldenses who were placed at the service of the new kingdom. They unfurled lively propaganda activities in Turin, with attacking Don Bosco and sought to discredit him to the public. Finally, they called him confidently out to theological disputes. All Waldensian leaders of Turin appeared to dispute the Saints, however, were defeated. Finally, they offered the best known of their pastors, Jean Pierre Meille from Provençal Luzerna e San Jan in Piedmont.

The debate in Valdocco took seven hours until it ended with a comic scene. Don Bosco had tried to reason with the history and with the Latin Scriptures. But Meille did not want to admit defeat, and finally said that the Latin Bible was not enough, one must consult the Greek text. Don Bosco stood up, walked to the bookcase, fetched a Greek Bible and put it to the Waldensian pastor out by saying, "Here, sir, the Greek text. You are welcome to refer to it, and you will find that it agrees completely with the Latin text." Meille had bluffed, so as not to have to admit defeat. He had no knowledge of Greek, which is why looked at the book upside down and leafed through it. When Don Bosco turned it right side up, he was embarrassed, turned crimson, jumped up and stormed out of the hall. The dispute was over.

Then they changed their approach. One Sunday in August 1853, two men came and went to the Saint, one of them was a Waldensian pastor, as it turned out later. They flattered Don Bosco, and finally offered him a considerable sum of money, with the announcement that he would get a lot more of it, if instead of writing books about religion, he would turn to history of science, because his contributions could be so valuable. Don Bosco rejected indignantly, and the two men swore at him and finally even threatened, "If you leave the house, are you are sure to return?"

"Catholic Priests are for the Glory of God and the Good of Souls and Ready to Die"

John Bosco answered them: "I see that you do not seem to know who I am. I am a Catholic priest and Catholic priests are for the glory of God and ready to die for the good of the souls entrusted to them." The two men wanted to attack the Saint physically. Don Bosco took a chair and said, "If I wanted to use violence, I would have the power to make you feel this provocation. The power of the priest is but in patience and forgiveness. So I think that it is time to end this conversation." At that moment the door opened and Giuseppe Buzzetti, a loyal employee of Don Bosco stood in the doorway. The Saint said quietly to him, "Accompany these men to Confession!"

The Waldensians then attacked with other means of persuasion. One evening Don Bosco was called to a patient to take his confession. In the house he found a group of men who flattered him and urged to drink with them a glass of wine. Don Bosco remarked, however, that his glass was filled from another bottle, than the glasses of the men present. When he refused, two of the men were holding him, while the other wanted to for the wine violently. He dealt with predicament in a ruse: "If you believe it is necessarily, then I drink, but let me free, otherwise the wine will only spill". When they released him, he jumped quickly to the door, flung it open and called in the four young men, who had accompanied him to protect him. The men gave up their project in he face of the changing situation. Don Bosco asked a friend to inquire about the background of this attack. It turned out that the men in the house had been paid to poison the saint.

Called to a dying person, a group of armed men with truncheons lurked for the saint, who would kill Don Bosco. Since the attackers had turned off the light, the Saint could initially protect himself with a table. Alarmed by the noise, his four faithful companions came to his aid, so that he escaped from the house unharmed.

Protestants now wanted facts: On a January afternoon in 1854 Don Bosco got a visit from two men. They called on him to stop the publication of Catholic writings or else we'll fix you. As the threats did not impress the Saint, the men said to him: "Either you do it or you're dead." They pulled guns and held them on the Saint's breast. "Then shoot!" Dom Bosco hurled against them with a strong voice. Giovanni Cagliero, a confidant of the Saint, had not trusted the men and therefore followed them on his own initiative to Dom Bosco's room. He now rushed with loud shouts of "Help" into the room, which surprised the two attackers, who wanted to intimidate the Saint that they quickly hid the guns and ran out of the room.

Despite the many attacks on his life, the saint never wore weapons and never used violence. He gave himself completely to Providence, which protected him. This included "Grey", a powerful large dog who repeatedly freed the holy Don Bosco from dangerous situations.

Vain however, was the effort of John Bosco to the Catholic priest Luigi De Sanctis. The Roman De Sanctis was a member of the Camillian Order, a professor of theology and a well-known priest in Rome in the 1830s. But in the revolutionary year of 1848, De Sanctis turned his back on the Catholic Church, left his Order and its parish and went to Malta. He became a Protestant and married. A little later he was Vicar of Pastor Meille in Turin and took part in the anti-Catholic magazine "The Evangelical Light", which was directed primarily against Don Bosco. When it came to conflicts within the Waldensians, De Sanctis became Calvinist, which is was what cost him his place in the Waldensians and plunged him into a deep crisis.

Don Bosco contacted De Sanctis on 17 November 1854. He tried to pave the apostate priest's way back to the Catholic Church. The move may seem surprising, after all, De Sanctis was a "traitor" and had written numerous writings against the Catholic Church, especially attacks against the Sacrament of Penance. But Don Bosco was convinced of the dogma, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. He was concerned about the salvation of the souls of men.

In fact, De Sanctis replied. This resulted in an intense exchange of letters that has been preserved. "You can not imagine the impact that your friendly letter of yesterday had on me. I could never imagine that there is so much generosity and so much kindness in a man who is my open enemy. Let's make no mistake about it. I fight your principles and you fight my principles, but while you fight me, show me, love me sincerely ... "

Don Bosco, who was convinced that in a fallen priest there must prevail the largest moral dilemma, which is why he wanted to present him with his hand of friendship, but was disappointed. Six months later, De Sanctis resumed his attacks against the Catholic Church again, went to Florence, returned there back to the Waldensian Church and died a Waldensian in 1869. Don Bosco should speak of a "hardened heart" and a "darkened intellect", which kept its grasp on the former Camillian.

“They WHY did you type THIS:”

I typed it because it is true: Of course today there are no Waldensians REALLY. Do you know what the word “really” means? It means they are not the real Waldensians. They disappeared when they dropped their particular Waldensian beliefs and practices and accepted Calvinism and became Calvinists.

“Next thing ya know; you’ll be trying to convince us that Rachel isn’t Black!”

Next thing ya know; you’ll be trying to convince us you actually know what the word “really” really means.

“As in bona fide, rock solid in their heresy?”

I was thinking about how they related to other Protestants, not how they related to truth in itself.

“Or in their stance outside the One, True Church?”

Again, I was thinking about how they related to other Protestants, not how they related to truth in itself.

“For somebody who claims Pope Pius X as his hero, you don’t seem to put much stock in the saint’s catechism.”

I said Pius V was my hero. Can you ever get anything right? Here’s the post where I said that - just in case you were going to deny you made yet another error: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3300433/posts?page=38#38

“So you you don’t care that much for Pope St. Pius X, is that it?”

And there it is. Instead of simply admitting you were wrong - which you almost always are - you ask a “Do you still beat your wife?” sort of question. No matter what I think of Pope St. Pius X it won’t change the fact that your posts are loaded with errors. Thus, that sort of question is at best a moot and unimportant question. At worst, it is a dishonest and craven attempt to hide embarrassment at being caught flat-footed yet again.

In any case, the objective error is yours. I said Pius V. You falsely claimed I said Pius X.

Here is something about your hero, Pope St. Pius V, and Protestantism:

Priest P. Kramer (21st century): Pope St. Pius V teaches in his Catechism, the Roman Catechism — also known as the Catechism of the Council of Trent — that all of the Protestant religions are false religions, they’re inspired by the devil; and therefore their fruits are evil…The Protestant religions, as such, are inspired by the devil, as Pope St. Pius V teaches in his catechism. (Kramer P. The Imminent Chastisement for Not Fulfilling Our Lady’s Request. An edited transcript of a speech given at the Ambassadors of Jesus and Mary Seminar in Glendale, California, September 24, 2004. THE FATIMA CRUSADER Issue 80, Summer 2005, pp. 32-45

So much for your bona fide, rock solid heretics whom Francis and you appear to be buddies with.

“Here is something about your hero, Pope St. Pius V, and Protestantism:”

Oh, is that your way of admitting now that you were wrong about who my hero was?

“So much for your bona fide, rock solid heretics whom Francis and you appear to be buddies with.”

You’re only proving my point. I said, “Again, I was thinking about how they related to other Protestants, not how they related to truth in itself.”

Keep helping me by trying (vainly) to help yourself. Your errors don’t help. You work for me and don’t even know it.

“I’ll gladly admit I made an error in this one case.”

You make plenty of errors. I’ve pointed a number out to you. Usually you go on as if no errors were made and none of them were pointed out to you.

“But can you deny that you now reject the catechisms of both sainted popes by defending Francis in ecumenical follies with heretics?”

I’m not rejecting any Catholic catechism, but only one catechism today has any sanctioned authority over Catholics. Do you know which catechism that is?

“Silly argument.”

Nope. What I said was perfectly true. Go back and look at the earlier post:

“What will be interesting to see is how the Protestant anti-Catholic “Pope-will-create-false-world-religion-to-oppose-Christ” crowd here at FR will receive the news that Pope Francis gets on so well with bona fide, rock solid, evangelicals like the Waldensians.”

See that? See how I CLEARLY posted a comment about “how the Protestant anyi-Catholic...crowd...will receive the news”? See that? Clearly my comment was about how Protestants will view this news about other UNDENIABLE Protestants are friendly with Pope Francis. Thus, my argument is not silly at all.

“The only way all Protestants are related is their universal rejection of the One, True Church. Thus the name “protestant”.”

Wait a minute. You apparently do not understand the origins of the word “Protestant” - which would not surprise me. You point is well taken, however - that “Protestants are related in their universal rejection” of the Church BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS POINTING OUT FROM IN MENTIONING THAT “how the Protestant anti-Catholic ...crowd ... receive the news that Pope Francis gets on so well with bona fide, rock solid, evangelicals like the Waldensians.”

Thus, again, you have proved my point. You work for me.

What will be interesting to see is how the Protestant anti-Catholic “Pope-will-create-false-world-religion-to-oppose-Christ” crowd here at FR will receive the news that Pope Francis gets on so well with bona fide, rock solid, evangelicals like the Waldensians.

It certainly appears that you are excited about how well Francis "gets on so well with bona fide, rock solid" heretics. That isn't what your hero thought or taught.

Make up your mind; are you with Francis or Pope St Pius V? You can't be with both in regards to the Protestants.

Did Pope Pius V ever kneel and receive a blessing from heretics as Bergoglio has?

“It certainly appears that you are excited about how well Francis “gets on so well with bona fide, rock solid” heretics. That isn’t what your hero thought or taught.”

In other words, you won’t name the catechism, right?

“Make up your mind; are you with Francis or Pope St Pius V?”

I’m with Christ and His Church. Popes come and go. Christ and the Church remain. I need not choose one pope over another. In faith and morals, when teaching all the Church in a binding fashion, they all serve Christ. It is Protestant-like to demand that a faithful Christian choose one pope over another.

“You can’t be with both in regards to the Protestants.”

I am with the Church. I treat Protestants no differently now then I ever have.

“Did Pope Pius V ever kneel and receive a blessing from heretics as Bergoglio has?”

Again, aren’t you making yourself a “mini-pope” here after just falsely accusing me of doing the same? Do you know what the word “hypocrisy” means?

...the One, True Church.

With such great leaders as...

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

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