Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
It is what you are compelled to do in so doing that is the problem.
Paul preached the atoning death of Jesus Christ and His burial and resurrection. Peter did not preach the cross and Christ's death as GOOD NEWS. Read the sermon again. Peter at Pentecost had ACCUSED his hearers of crucifying Christ and had DEMANDED repentance and baptism for the remission of sins.(Acts 2:23,36,38). Paul proclaimed the crucifixion of Christ as GOOD NEWS (1 Cor. 1:18).
Nonsense. The idea that Paul also did not present the death and resurrection of Christ as Bad News for those who rejected Him, and Good News because it meant God offers them salvation, is contrary to what he said. Both Peter and Paul present men as lost sinners, and Christ as the Holy and Just One who was crucified and rose, rejecting of whom means damnation, which is set in contrast to the Good News, that the Lord's death was part of Gods predetermined plan, signifying the beginning the last days, so that they and "as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39) that "call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21) and receive the promise of the Spirit by repentant faith, which is Good News. For Peter this faith is manifestly confessed via baptism while for Paul it is by mouth, (Rm. 10:9-13) but both of which are promising forgiveness if one believes with the kind of faith that confesses the Lord Jesus, which the Spirit of God enables, God convicting, drawing, opening hearts, and giving repentant faith, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) even before the indwelling of the Spirit. (Eph. 1:13)
And as this promised salvation/regeneration requires cleansing, and which requires atonement, and no sacrifices were offered except the holy Christ they killed, thus the connection to these devout Jews in Acts 2 was obvious, as it was in Acts 10 and 13. The convicted souls of Acts 2:38 confessed the Lord Jesus, and believed in their heart that God hath raised him from the dead, which Paul promises salvation to. (Romans 10:9) Many souls today have been manifestly born again by faith in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus to save them, believing what Rm. 10:9 requires, but without understanding the atonement.
That neither Peter nor the new converts realized the implications of “repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem,” (Luke 24:47) and "as many as the Lord our God shall call," (Acts 2:39) nor had the theological revelations given to Paul regarding the mystery of the one new man, and expected the Lord to soon set up His kingdom and reign with Christ, which multitudes do today, did not and does not make the gospel message by which one is forgiven and born again essentially different.
Peter and Paul also preached that the Jews were culpable for the death of Christ, (Acts 13:27-28; 1Ths. 2:15) and Paul preaches that rejecting Christ is Bad News ("in flaming fire..that obey not the gospel...2Ths. 1:8,9) The difference here is that Peter was preaching to the people who personally were present and part of the local people who condemned the Lord of glory, while Paul preaches to the Jews at large in Acts 13.
Your discrepancy is contrived as it is based upon what Peter preached in a recorded sermon to the former, to Jews "dwelling at Jerusalem" during the Passover, who actually were contemporary with Christ and could have had a say in His death, and before they realized the fuller implications of the latter day Pentecost that Peter says the death of Christ signified. Which you set in contrast to what Paul theologically later taught to (mainly) Gentiles. And you even try to exclude Peter's other preaching and teaching as in Acts 10, though he clearly preached salvation by faith, in the light of the Lord's death and resurrection, or you explain his affirmation of salvation by faith as being after Paul supposedly enlightened Peter. Yet since Paul presents the death of Christ as bad new in Acts 13, and only after that says he will go to the Gentiles, then it seems you must reject what Paul said in Acts 13 as being his enlightened gospel.
However, as seen in the gospels and Acts, the basic message of Peter and Paul is the same, yet it is adapted as befitting the audience, and in both cases being culpable of sin and rejecting Christ is bad news, in the light of which the death of Christ becomes good news as the plan of God's salvation, as in Acts 2. Accordingly, as Peter was addressing "dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven, (Acts 2:5) then it was fitting that he convicted them (as per Jn. 16:9) as personally culpable in the death of Christ, whom God raised, this being God's plan, which resulted in their seeking salvation, which was by calling upon the Lord by faith expressed in baptism.
Question: IF Peter preached the same gospel of the grace of God as Paul, why did Peter demand repentance and water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS?
Because that required and signified faith, as seen in Acts 19:4-6 that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. For to be baptized in the name of Christ means one must believe on Him, and is essentially no different than an altar call and confessing the Lord Jesus by mouth. And to tell souls that “whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved,” (Acts 2:21) that if they will repent and be baptized then they will be saved was no different from telling them that if they would believe, call upon and confess the Lord Jesus “thou shalt be saved.” (Acts 10:9-13) Note how the terms “believe” “call,” confess” are used. Whether one moves his neurons and tongue or moves his legs to Christ in believing and calling upon/confess the Lord Jesus, he is making a non-meritorious volitional response, by God's grace, which signifies faith.
The idea of baptism itself meriting salvation was not in view, and unless one imagines man gets some credit for deciding to believe, which he could not and would not do apart from God enabling and motivating, then any distinction between believing, calling up, confessing the Lord Jesus as being what signifies conversion (given opportunity) and baptism, is artificial.
And Peter did not say baptism saves you here, but that if they would be repent and baptized then they would be saved (cf. Mk. 16:16). Likewise Paul says those who believe, call upon and confess the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved in Rm. 10:9-13. For those who truly call upon Christ or confess Him meant they believe, and to be baptized means one believes.
For a physical act can signify the spiritual action behind it, as in Luke 5:23: Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? Being forgiven here meant be healed, as the former effected the latter, while to believe means to identify with the object of faith, which baptism does. (Rm. 6)
For though God sees the heart, which believes unto righteousness, He can require one to do an act which requires faith, and to do so is confirmation that one has believed. Thus Romans 10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. And that Acts 2:38 was a call to faith is manifest by Peter's next sermon, in Acts 10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)
And therefore Peter states that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:21) later in Acts 15:9 tells all the church that God purified their hearts by faith, and call this salvation by grace. (v. 11)
But what Acts 2:38 does not mean is that confessing the Lord Jesus merits justification, or that the act itself of baptism (even sprinkling) effects regeneration, and renders one formally justified as practically holy enough to be with God based upon his personal holiness/merit, until one is defiled again, thus usually necessitating an indeterminate time in postmortem “purifying torments” until one becomes perfect enough in character (and atones for sins) to be with God, as per Rome.
Without preaching the cross as our salvation, there is no gospel of the grace of God.
As your premise of wrong so is your conclusion. Peter preaches the death of Christ as being God's plan by which all the elect could receive forgiveness and the Spirit, and as forgiveness requires atonement of an innocent victim, the connection was obvious to the Jews, if not to some latter day hyperdispensationalists.
Christ was set forth to be a propitiation THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD (Rom. 3:25).
Once again you are comparing a gospel message to the theological doctrine implicit behind it. Peter did not tell the Jews they were culpable for the death of Christ simply to place them on a guilt trip, but this is intrinsically linked to forgiveness as this requires atonement, and the crucifixion of the Holy and Just one meant that the promise of forgiveness and the Spirit could be realized. Similarly Paul in Acts 13.
THAT'S THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD.
Which “gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24) Paul states meant that he shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20) And says, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: (Acts 14:15)
Thus Paul presents himself as preaching the same message from the first to both Jews and Gentiles, with repentance as a condition for believing, or more precisely, that believing meant repentance from dead works.
As an aside, did those who heard Peter's Pentecost sermon repent, get baptized and rejoice in the fact that they were now IN CHRIST?.
They certainly did not think they were outside Christ. That they did not yet realize that the Gentiles would be granted repentance unto life simply does not mean they had a different gospel, one of works and not of grace.
That their inheritance was in heaven and they were now all filled with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places? No. They repented, were baptized, sold everything they had, and waited for Christ to return to set up His kingdom..they knew they were going to enter the millennial kingdom with Christ ruling...Is there anyone who can see this and see it's NOT part of the gospel of the grace of God, which pertains to heavenly blessings
Rather, what some cannot see is that the two kingdoms are no mutually exclusive, but entering into the spiritual kingdom of Christ, which the Lord already said it essentially was, (Jn. 18:36) is a precursor to being part of the 1k year physical kingdom on earth (which Rome denies). That the Jews did not yet realize the scope of the gospel as including Gentiles, and who would reign with them in the physical kingdom on earth does not make the means of forgiveness and regeneration different, as the same message of repentance and faith was preached to both. As shown, after declaring he would go to the Gentiles, at least twice Paul equated believing on Christ with being baptized in His name, as the former means doing the latter.
One that DID include water baptism and repentance. NOT faith in the finished work of Christ, that He died FOR OUR SINS, or that faith in Him would place us, by the Holy Spirit, into the Body of Christ.
That is a false dilemma, for as explained above, the two are not mutually exclusive, but instead, telling souls that if they will repent and be baptized then they will be saved was no different from telling them that if they would believe call upon and and confess the Lord Jesus “thou shalt be saved.”
1st Peter 3:18 is mentioned. THIS is about grace. But look when it was written, AFTER PAUL WAS SAVED, AFTER PAUL WENT TO JERUSALEM and communicated unto them (Peter, James and John) THAT GOSPEL that he preached among the Gentiles...They learned the message (That gospel I preach among the Gentiles, Paul said) HERE. From Paul.
Wrong. Peter clearly preached in Acts 10, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins, (Acts 10:43) and which is the basis for his affirmation that God purified their hearts by faith, and were not to be placed under the Law for salvation. And that the kingdom included the Gentiles was a result of God, not Paul, showing him not to call any man ritually unclean.
Acts 26:19-20: "Works meet for repentance. Not works meet for salvation. Where is the "baptism for the REMISSION OF SINS"? that Peter preached? " Peter said "repent and be baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. He did NOT say "Should be baptized"
You are ignoring that Paul first tells them to “repent and turn to God,” which is a volitional response just as baptism is, and which Paul equated with believing in Acts 19, and promised those who believe, call upon and confess the Lord Jesus who died for them and rose again, will be saved, as will those who are confess Christ in baptism, as this signifies repentant faith.
And as said, the convicted souls of Acts 2:38 confessed the Lord Jesus, and believed in their heart that God hath raised him from the dead, which Paul promises salvation to. (Romans 10:9)
Paul in no place states that repentance is demanded for remission of sins.
Major error. You are being like a Pharisee and simply looking at the letter, and not the intent. First, Paul clearly said he preached “both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Acts 20:21) and told idolaters to turn from their idols before he even told them of Christ, (Acts 14:15) and to a lost soul he “reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come.” (Acts 24:25)
Secondly, “believing” which Paul taught is his epistles, entails repentance, a change of heart effecting in a change of life. No one can truly believe on the Lord Jesus and not repent, for to believe on anyone called Lord who loved righteousness and hated iniquity signifies recognition of His holiness and Lordship, versus that of others and your own. And to believe on Him to save you from your sins, because He is holy and died for your sins, implicitly signifies that you now want freedom from them, and a new life. (Jn. 3:19-21) Thus one will live a new life, with “things that accompany salvation,” (Heb. 6:9) according to the light and grace given. Simply accepting Christ as some abstract promise giver who will save you from a future Hell and give you eternal life if you profess faith in a gospel promise, without any recognition of just Who and What He is, and that sin is evil and to be avoided, is a denial of who He is, though changes are relevant to the light and grace one has.
Thus by preaching the Lord Jesus as the holy sinless (2Cor. 5:21) redeemer who died for the unGodly, and calling souls to believe, call upon/confess this risen exalted Christ — or else — then Paul is definitely preaching repentance, that of repentant faith, as necessary for salvation.
Cornelius. Did Peter go to him as part of the great commission Christ gave them?
Yes, indeed he did. Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:46-47)
For someone who understood that he was to take the gospel to all the nations, he sure did not act that way.
Once again your premise is wrong. Actually, Jews compassed “sea and land to make one proselyte,” (Matthew 23:15) thus the issue was not the racial scope of the Great Commission that would be new, but that the ritual separation which hindered this would be abolished. In preaching to Gentiles the Pharisees would have to be very careful not to be defiled by these Gentiles in seeking to convert them. Thus Peter did not essentially change his message, which remained that of the death and resurrection of Christ, and the offer of forgiveness by faith in Him, but the change was that he would eat with them. Therefore the objection by Peter's Jewish brethren to Peter's action was not to him giving them the gospel or its contents, but that “Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.” (Acts 11:3)
If he already had been told what to do and he knew he was commissioned to do it, why the argument with God?
There simply was no argument by Peter to preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, and which awaited the leading of the Lord away from Jerusalem, whereby some “which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen..spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus,” (Acts 11:19-20) but the objection by Peter was to violating the kosher requirements which the Acts 10 vision required.
It is because of Peter's experience with Cornelius that Peter and the 11 ACCEPTED Paul's message and apostleship. Without the Cornelius meeting, Peter and the 11 would have remained preaching the kingdom gospel to the Jews and waiting for them to accept Christ before they went to all the nations. Does anyone understand this?
I understand that your argument is contrived, as the fact is that right after his conversion, Paul “was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.” (Acts 9:28-29) There is no testimony that Paul was enlightened about the gospel of grace and taught Peter about salvation being by grace through faith which Peter plainly preached that in Acts 10:36-43.
And BTW what gospel would Peter have given Cornelius? That by grace he was saved through faith and that not of himself it was the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast? Or repentance and baptism for the remission of sins? Also, read Peter's sermon, Acts 10:34-48. He preached that Christ had died and was raised up the third day. But WHERE does he say that Christ's death was FOR OUR SINS?
Now you are showing more Pharisaical blindness. According to you, since the death of Christ was not stated to be an atonement for sin, then it had no relation to providing forgiveness of sins, but somehow faith in this martyred Son of God obtains forgiveness of sins simply because He fulfilled prophecy. Yet Paul also does not state that Christ's death was for our sins in Acts 13, but likewise offers forgiveness of sins by faith in Him, and the connection is obvious to those who understand the need for atonement by a sinless One for such forgiveness.
If Peter understood that whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins, that Christ's death was FOR OUR SINS, why baptize them?
Are you serious? The real question is, “Why not?!” Do you belong to the Salvation Army? Baptism signifies identification with Christ, as Paul clearly taught in Rm 6, yet Peter preached forgiveness of sins by faith, and testified that God purified their hearts by faith in Acts 15:9. As He did in Acts 2:38, by calling them to something that professed and required faith, which truly confessing the Lord Jesus by mouth does, which the Spirit enables even before His indwelling.
The very fact that he baptized them shows that baptism was part of that gospel. The gospel of the grace of God requires NOTHING to be added to the finished work of Christ for our salvation.
Wrong, as neither moving your brain neurons in believing or your lips or legs in confessing the Lord Jesus is adding to the finished work of Christ for our salvation. If you think they do, then you must hold to comatose conversions. And as explained, both Peter and Paul (and the Lord) promise souls salvation if they will do something, that of calling upon/confessing the Lord Jesus, as this requires and testifies to having faith, which is what appropriates forgiveness, and is counted for righteousness. Thanks be to God.
Ephesians 4:4-6 makes that clear: there is NOW ONE baptism. Not two. Not water AND the spiritual baptism the Holy Spirit performs to place us into the Body. Both the baptism and circumcision are spiritual.
So you do reject water baptism?! Camping would have been pleased. However, Heb. 6:2 speaks about the doctrine of baptisms as one of the fundamentals of the faith, and there is at least the baptism by the Spirit into the church in 1Co. 12:13, and baptism with the Spirit, often through laying on of hands. (Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:6) And 1Cor. 12:13 which teaches the baptism by the Spirit also teaches that they were water baptized, and which Paul performed in Acts 19, though his main function was that of preaching the gospel, faith in which is expressed in baptism.
And Romans 6 is definitely not speaking of Spirit baptism, but water baptism, which signifies being buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life. And it is this baptism which is what is normally meant, thus the distinctive statement of the baptism by the Spirit in 1Cor. 12:13.
Eph. 4 speaks of one baptism in conjunction with the one Lord, on faith, as it refers to the one baptism signifying the one faith in that one Lord, as per Acts 2:38 and Rm. 6.
The End. I expect to be busy for the next few days, but it does not appear you are seeking objective examination of this fringe doctrine you zealously contend for. May God help you.
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Peter in Acts 2,3 |
Paul in Acts 13 |
Peter elsewhere |
Paul elsewhere |
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Specific indictment |
"dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven, (Acts 2:5) ...ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23) The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; (Acts 3:13-14) |
For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. (Acts 13:27-28)
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And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: (Acts 10:39) |
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: (1 Thessalonians 2:15) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (1 Corinthians 2:8) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (Galatians 3:1) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (Romans 3:9) |
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Scope |
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:39) |
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. (Acts 13:26) |
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) |
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30) |
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Prophesied Plan |
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:21) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (Acts 2:32) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Acts 2:25-27) |
And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. (Acts 13:29) And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, (Acts 13:31-32) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. (Acts 13:33-37) |
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38) Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly... (Acts 10:40) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Peter 1:20) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18) |
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Romans 3:25) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Ephesians 1:4) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Romans 3:24-26) |
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Purpose and preaching |
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) |
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (Acts 13:38-39) |
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke [the Law] upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. (Acts 15:7-11) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (1 Peter 1:18-19) |
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:9-13) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:4-6) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4) Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)
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Scope |
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:39) |
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. (Acts 13:26) |
..through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) |
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (Ephesians 2:16) |
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Warning |
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. (Acts 2:34-35) |
Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. (Acts 13:40-41) |
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. (Acts 10:42) |
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: (2 Thessalonians 1:8) |
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I've not seen that but then I don't see all posts for sure. Salvation has always been by God's grace through faith in Him.
I think there is a lot of confusion over that word "dispensation". The original Greek word "oikonomia" means stewardship, management or administration. In Luke 16:1-3 we see the word used concerning a manager of the affairs and belongings of a rich man. The word "dispensation" is more along the lines of a time period of a particular management style.
Clearly we see that the management or stewardship of God's people changed over time. After Moses the people were to conduct themselves by a set of laws. Paul clearly indicated that there had been a change with the revelation Christ had given him. In his letter to the Ephesians in chapter 3 he talks about the fact that "the mystery of Christ which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men" had been revealed to him. It was given to him that God's way of dealing with men had changed. No longer was the law the guide that people were to live by. Paul called it the "stewardship" or "management" of God's grace in Ephesians 3:2.
It has always been by God's grace that men have been saved through faith in Him. But when Christ paid the full and complete price for our sins on the cross the "mystery", as Paul called it, had been hidden from men. That mystery was "that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel" as we learn in Ephesians 3:6. Paul now revealed that God's grace was extended to the Gentiles without the requirements of the law. Paul called it the stewardship or management of grace.
That revelation has not yet been given to or realized by the other apostles. It took them some time to realize what had changed. They were still focused on the promised "kingdom" of Christ prophesied in the Old Testament.
Now we also know that this time period (dispensation) of grace will end when the "fullness of the Gentiles" is reached and the Israelites will once again build a temple and abide by the law until they fully accept Christ as their Messiah during the last seven years promised them in Daniels prophecies.
>>Some believe the Jews now to be under a special dispensation, that God somehow loves Israel.<<
God indeed does love Israel and is currently bringing them back to the promised land and will again focus His attention on them during the last seven years promised them. Currently any Jew/Israelite who accepts Jesus is under the same grace that all the rest of us are. The Israelites are however "blinded in part" until the "fullness of the Gentiles comes in".
As a matter of logic, your conclusion that Peter was prescriptively teaching a different gospel of the Kingdom does not necessarily follow from the mere descriptive fact that thousands of Jewish believers were all zealous of the law and that they were informed of Paul teaching the Jews who lived among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
However, your premise that Peter was teaching a different gospel of Kingdom of Heaven than the gospel of grace Paul was teaching is contradicted chronologically as well as substantively by Peter's words in Acts 10. See daniel1212's extensive #601.
Cordially,
“Secondly, “believing” which Paul taught is his epistles, entails repentance, a change of heart effecting in a change of life. No one can truly believe on the Lord Jesus and not repent,”
How were people saved in 1,000 AD? They had no Bible, just a corrupt catholic church that had them bowing to men and only being told bits and pieces of truth if that.
I contend that Gods words have power and a man could be saved with just a scrap of information because that is all they had and God does the rest of the work just as he promises.
Powerful words such as “ “whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” and “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”
Man can be born from above with very little knowledge about all the rules and regulations that may or may not accompany his salvation.
We can clearly see that things changed after Paul's conversion and Christ's revelation to him of "the mystery". And so did Peter's words and understanding after meeting with Paul in Jerusalem and his own vision.
I am trying to avoid logic but depend on scripture...
However, your premise that Peter was teaching a different gospel of Kingdom of Heaven than the gospel of grace Paul was teaching is contradicted chronologically as well as substantively by Peter's words in Acts 10. See daniel1212's extensive #601.
I really appreciate all the knowledge and wisdom daniel1212 brings to FR...We have different views on the scope of the gospels in the scriptures so while I will post what I think to be accurate, I am watching very closely to find places where/if my position has errors...
Only one was needed-don't eat of the tree. But God graciously gives us more laws and commandments to help us recognize the hardness of our hearts.
Please consider Moses' statement to the Israelites:
Deu 30:11 "For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Deu 30:14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
All the commandments are summarized in two parts: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind and your neighbor as yourself. And Moses tells us they are not hard to follow. Yet try to find anyone that follows just these two commandments. And while people conveniently uses the devil as an excuse, it really is a recognition of our rebellious nature.
It is because of this hardness of our heart that we fall on God's grace.
Yes, I agree. I can almost see dispensationalism in the way you are describing it; periods of time of ages. But I'm not sure God works like that-although He might. From a human perspective it is neat and tidy. From a salvation perspective, I think His plan is exactly the same.
If you refuse to see that God has promised to keep us from His wrath, then you cannot see that this Church the Body of Christ has a definite beginning, mission, and end. It begins with Paul. It is built by visions and revelations Paul received from the risen Christ. And it ends when the last member of the Body is saved, making the body complete. I'm not even listing Scriptures for you here. You'll find them, WHERE, do you think? ROMANS THROUGH PHILEMON. That's right: PAUL'S WRITINGS.
Just where do you think you are going to fit in the tribulation? God will seal 144,000 BELIEVING JEWS to preach the Messianic Gospel. God help anyone who stumbles across you at that time. They only have SEVEN years, NOT FIFTY. You can't say what you mean in only seven years.
Good luck with all that. I would encourage you to read post 481. Kandy Atz wrote it. Perhaps you would like to write a book to this poster, telling him/her how wrong THEY are. Somehow I doubt that, however. Something tells me Kandy Atz would "contend for the faith once delivered". As you so ironically said. "The faith once delivered" refers to the message that PAUL was given. Which you cannot see, sadly.
I will say no more. I will pray for you and wish you the best in all you do. Regards, smvoice
Of course it's the same but would you also say that God's dealing with man now is the same as it was under the law given Moses?
Well and truly stated. Clear exposition ...
The connection is strictly in your mind.
Do not hold your breath.
What a haughty thing to post!
Of course. The law is good. God giving the law to Moses was no different than God telling Adam not to eat of the tree. And our Lord Jesus summed up the law in two commandments. So whether we have one law (don't eat the fruit), ten laws, or two laws-it is all the same thing.
The laws are good. Laws and commands only illustrates to us that we, in our sinful state, REALLY don't want to keep God's commands unless God changes our hearts. We are saved by grace just like Moses, Abraham and the rest.
Frankly I hear the same reasoning from Mormons and Catholics here on FR.
Is it your answer then, that the gospel of Grace was first preached in Acts 3 by Peter?
I asked at what point was the kingdom gospel shelved for grace and grace only? Do you see it at Acts 3 (which smvoice hinted at), Paul's conversion? Acts 10? Acts 15? If not clear in those points in Acts would it be safe to say that Paul did not preach the kingdom gospel in Acts 28?
Were the Jews and diaspora Jews of Acts 2 and Acts 3 who accepted Peter's message and received the Holy Spirit, born again saved by the Blood of Christ?
By your comments above, should I conclude that you don't see the Jewish believers in Acts 2 and 3 as part of the church? Put another way: were the Jews and diaspora Jews present on Pentecost, who were pricked in the heart, were they born again washed in the Blood of Jesus Christ believers? Or were they justified by kingdom program?
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