Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whomsoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. John 3:16
And again, when the 'leadership' of Judaism in His day asked Jesus what work God required for salvation, Jesus answered simply:
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29
When Jesus asked the disciples whom the people said He is and then 'but whom say you that I AM', Peter's Holy Spirit inspired response is so true, so complete, so absolutely based upon God's Promise that Jesus expounded on the process to come (you know, the keys and the foundation rock):
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16
And in his letters Paul echoed this same simple formula and not anything else:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Roman 10:9
And Peter echoed this same simple Gospel when he preached in the home of Cornelius:
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly ... And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Acts 10:38 - 44
And we see how God affirmed this Gospel immediately, even before Peter finished his sermon!
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And that, dear Catholic is the Gospel of Salvation, complete, not needing anything else to be real and immediate. Believe that Jesus is the one God has sent for our Salvation, believe God has raised Him from the dead as your Savior, and you are then IN eternal life, by the Promise of God, not some man-made institution. Your eternal life with God begins with that utterance/confession of faith, because it is at that moment that God's Holy Spirit enters to indwell you and as far as you let, he changes you into what He finds 'comely'. For it is God Who is in you, both to will and do of His good pleasure, from the moment of your profession onward.
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>> “Do you have a problem with Jacob?” <<
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It appears that he may have a problem with anything that is not “dispensational.” (which is the entire word of God)
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That approach doesn't stand up well, ES. The flood, if nothing else, demonstrates it to be misguided, at a minimum, in its inception point.
Paul clearly was talking to gentile Christians in Thessalonica. They were concerned with the subject of Jesus' return. Paul was calming them by repeating information he had earlier given. He reiterated that the 'falling away' must happen first.
If that 'falling away' were already taking place, he would have said so.
Beyond that, the very grammatical structure of the sentence itself requires a sequence be seen. Any literate reading of the section requires the 'falling away' to be a yet to happen event in terms of those Thessalonians. As does the revealing of the man of sin.
First you tell us the falling away and the man of sin revealed are concurrent events, and now you're telling us the one is ongoing since creation. "The Revealing" of the man of sin is not an ongoing event since ante-diluvian days. It is an 'Aha!" moment.
"... then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart." Mark 13:19
False; some Gentiles tend to be biased against Jews and malign Jacob in particular. אֵלֶּה, תּוֹלְדֹת נֹחַ--נֹחַ אִישׁ צַדִּיק תָּמִים הָיָה, בְּדֹרֹתָיו: אֶת-הָאֱלֹהִים, הִתְהַלֶּךְ-נֹחַ. וַיִּגְדְּלוּ, הַנְּעָרִים, וַיְהִי עֵשָׂו אִישׁ יֹדֵעַ צַיִד, אִישׁ שָׂדֶה; וְיַעֲקֹב אִישׁ תָּם, יֹשֵׁב אֹהָלִים. אִישׁ הָיָה בְאֶרֶץ-עוּץ, אִיּוֹב שְׁמוֹ; וְהָיָה הָאִישׁ הַהוּא, תָּם וְיָשָׁר וִירֵא אֱלֹהִים--וְסָר מֵרָע.
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And the boys grew : and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Genesis, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verse nine,
Genesis, Catholic chapter twenty five, Protestant verse twenty seven,
Job, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verse one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
Jacob was called תָּם (Tam), one of only a few honored so in the scriptures. Definition
perfect, complete
complete, perfect
one who lacks nothing in physical strength, beauty, etc
sound, wholesome
an ordinary, quiet sort of person
complete, morally innocent, having integrity
one who is morally and ethically pure
King James Word Usage - Total: 13 perfect 9, undefiled 2, plain 1, upright 1
You should be so honored to bear the name of the Patriarch or one of the Apostles, since James is the English for יַעֲקֹב (Jacob). Even as Baalam tries to curse you, he must bless you. :)
From the Latin Iacobus, which was from the Greek Ιακωβος (Iakobos), which was from the Hebrew name יַעֲקֹב (Ya'aqov). In the Old Testament, Jacob (later called Israel) is the son of Isaac and Rebecca and the father of the twelve founders of the twelve tribes of Israel. He was born holding his twin brother Esau's heel, and his name is explained as meaning "holder of the heel" or "supplanter".
Are you growing tired of playing your 'gotcha games' yet? Have you read the simple Gospel offered?
False; I have known others who rooted for Esau; the opposite of Jacobins, so to speak, on the wrong team. And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel. How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied? For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations. Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! And Balak said unto Balaam, What hast thou done unto me? I took thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast blessed them altogether. And he answered and said, Must I not take heed to speak that which the LORD hath put in my mouth? And Balak said unto him, Come, I pray thee, with me unto another place, from whence thou mayest see them: thou shalt see but the utmost part of them, and shalt not see them all: and curse me them from thence. And he brought him into the field of Zophim, to the top of Pisgah, and built seven altars, and offered a bullock and a ram on every altar. And he said unto Balak, Stand here by thy burnt offering, while I meet the LORD yonder. And the LORD met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go again unto Balak, and say thus. And when he came to him, behold, he stood by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. And Balak said unto him, What hath the LORD spoken? And he took up his parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them. God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn. Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought! Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. And Balak said unto Balaam, Neither curse them at all, nor bless them at all. But Balaam answered and said unto Balak, Told not I thee, saying, All that the LORD speaketh, that I must do? And Balak said unto Balaam, Come, I pray thee, I will bring thee unto another place; peradventure it will please God that thou mayest curse me them from thence. The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Numbers, Catholic chapter, twenty three, Protestant verses seven to twenty seven,
Malachi, Catholic chapter, one, Protestant verses one to three,
Revelation, Catholic chapter, twelve, Protestant verses one to ten,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
pax vobiscum
While that is not at all true,
1Th_4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Spiritually we must die, not necessarily physically...
Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Apparently you are not at all familiar with God's instruction manual, the bible...
Of course they do...Science tells us that you can not destroy matter...You can only change it...The body turns into dirt, dust, ashes, smoke, but it's still exists...
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Games!
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Actually, I’m honored any time that Biblically ignorant turkey tries to diss me :o)
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The second death is only for the damned.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Apologize for what? I saw no problems with your post 293. Did someone object? You certainly didn’t have to apologize to me.
Man you need to kick that Rood fraud to the curb! Those are some really weird beliefs.
Following Rood rather than scripture causes all kinds of problems.
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The flood had no effect on the elect. The remnant is mentioned several times in Tanakh.
Paul was assuring the Thessalonians, a congregation of the dispersion, that they had not missed a secret rapture.
(Satan’s favorite confusion had already been implemented)
That and only that was the reason for the letter. The letter explained why that was and always would be impossible.
In his first letter to them, he had commended them on their keeping of the appointed times, and assured them that because of that, Yeshua would not come as a thief to them. That fact played into his explanation in the second letter.
There are, of course, those to whom this will fly completely over their heads. The continuity of the communication to that congregation should not be ignored, if understanding is to be gained.
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Who is Rood? New to me.
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Yes, I’ve noticed on many occasions that you considered the scriptures to be weird.
Dispensationalism has that effect on people.
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