Posted on 04/22/2015 2:34:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Within Roman Catholicism (and within some other churches as well) there are prayers that are made for, through, and to the dead. We, as Reformed believers, reject all three of these categories but on different grounds. In discussing these issues with Roman Catholics it may be useful to be able to understand the different categories and to explain why it is that we reject each. We should pray for the living, to the living and true God, through the merits and intercession of Christ alone.
1. Prayers For the Dead
In Roman Catholicism, there is a belief in Purgatory. Although Roman Catholics give varying explanations, a popular perception is that purgatory is a place where, through a period of suffering, the soul is purged of sin (it's worth noting that some Roman Catholics today deny that Purgatory is either an actual place or that it has actual time, but we'll leave that for another discussion).
Those within Purgatory want to be purged of their sins (in Roman Catholic theology) but they also want to get out of there and on to heaven. So people are encouraged to pray for the souls of the deceased, for relief/escape from Purgatory. After all, apparently, this suffering can be alleviated through the granting of an indulgence to the person in purgatory.
The Bible, however, teaches that the souls of believers are, at their death made perfect in holiness and do immediately pass into glory. (See Thomas Watson's discussion, for a more detailed discussion.) Given this, prayers for dead believers are useless, since believers are already in heaven.
Furthermore, while certain folks have (from time to time) suggested that salvation is still possible in hell, it is not. Of course, this itself is not normally disputed by Roman Catholics, who recognize that there is no escape from hell itself. Thus, prayers for dead unbelievers are also useless, since unbelievers are already in hell, from which they cannot escape.
Thus, there is no third category - no third option that exists, where prayers for the deceased would have any value. Accordingly, we reject prayers for the dead as vain and superstitious, and we do not engage in such prayers.
2. Prayers To the Dead
In Roman Catholicism there are, from time to time, prayers to the dead. I would be quick to point out Mary, but this doctrine they have of the Assumption of Mary leaves it unclear whether they really consider Mary to be dead or resurrected (although, of course, as a matter of objective fact, she is dead and awaits the resurrection of the faithful). Aside from Mary, however, other saints are sometimes prayed to within Catholicism. One particularly popular saint in English-speaking countries is St. Jude (aka Judas not Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles), the patron saint of lost causes.
We, Reformed Christians, reject such prayers for several reasons. First, there is no reason at all to think that such prayers will be heard and understood by the dead. Second, not only does Scripture not encourage attempted communication with the dead, it condemns such attempts as witchcraft and necromancy. Third, the use of such prayers suggests a lack of faith in the efficacy of prayers directly to the Father. Fourth, the use of such prayers suggests a desire for the mediation of someone other than Christ, an issue that flows over into the next section, below.
This is one of those areas where Roman Catholic apologists are very eager these days to recast the issue in terms like "we're just asking our fellow believers to pray for us, are you saying that's wrong?" The answer to that question is that we do not object to asking fellow believers to pray for us. In fact, we ought to do so. James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
However, while many of the prayers to the dead are explicitly prayers that the dead would hear the person and pray to God for the person, that simply avoids the most grotesque abuses of the practice, such as when things are requested specifically from the saints or Mary, which are not theirs to give (such as success, grace, salvation, etc.). Those prayers (meta-prayers that request prayer by the saint to whom the prayers are offered) suffer from the objections as to the lack of warrant or example from the Scriptures as well as from the apparent view that these saints are to serve as mediators rather than Christ. As this is not a direct answer to the Romanist objections, I won't go on at greater length here.
3. Prayers Through the Dead
Roman Catholics sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly, offer up prayers that are through the dead. For example, the "Approved Prayer for the intercession of Pope John Paul II" (link) is a prayer that is not for John Paul II (JP2) or to JP2 but it is through JP2. It is addressed to God, "O Holy Trinity," but it requests that something be granted "Grant us," via the intercession of JP2 "through his intercession ... ."
Other times the request is more indirect. For example, sometimes when Mary (or others) are entreated it is suggested (as a justification) that since "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" that the more righteous a person is, the more their prayer will avail (although, of course, the Scriptures do not teach such any such formula). Consequently, the idea is that we are asking these creatures to intercede before God on the basis of the merits that are theirs.
The connection between the two can be seen in this prayer to God pleading the merit and intercession of Rita of Cascia:
O God! who didst deign to confer on St. Rita for imitating Thee in love of her enemies, the favor of bearing her heart and brow the marks of Thy Love and Passion, grant we beseech Thee, that through her intercession and merit, we may, pierced by the thorns of compunction, ever contemplate the sufferings of Thy Passion, who livest and reignest forever and ever. Amen.(emphasis added - source)
(emphasis added - source)Prayer to Our Lady of Light
O radiant beam of celestial clarity,
O spotless Mother of infinite purity,
O seat of Wisdom and divine reliquary
of the Word Incarnate,
Hear my prayer,
O Queen of Light!
O Blessed Trinity,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
You glorified my Mother, Mary,
as Queen of heaven and earth
and gave to her the gift of holding
Your Omnipotence in her holy hands,
Graciously grant what I seek
through her merits and intercession.
Amen.
956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness.... They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."(emphases and elipses in original - footnote omitted - source)
Amen.
You're right.
The Romans thought Zeus and others were gods. They were wrong. They are both examples of false teachings.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life...no one comes to the Father but through Me (John 14:6 NASB)."
The way the Greek is set up on the "I am" part of this statement essentially means compared to all other beliefs, Jesus is the only way to the Father.
All other ways are false.
It’s ‘because of that assurance of our Salvation we have Jesus that we pray.
Sound like the "First Protestant", Martin Luther. Do you sin boldly also?
Do you not miss the Sacrament of Confession that Christ has instituted?
I, too, was born again when I was baptized and I don’t believe the crap you’re spouting.
Why should anyone miss that when all we need to do is pray to Jesus? We do not need a middleman.
But the Prots seem to have a couple thousand different ways themselves.
Did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If not, water will not help. Sounds like you just might have a problem with the Bible, too.
Nobody is born again by water baptism.
Physical actions do not cause spiritual realities to happen.
If you were truly born again and knew spiritual truths, you wouldn’t even need to ask the questions you’ve been asking.
Why would anyone ignore John: Chapter 20? What happened to “sola scriptura”? Or do you cherry pick Scripture, just like Martin Luther?
I confess my sin to God when I sin.
But that doesn’t change anything about my salvation, which is sealed in heaven through the Holy Spirit. All confession does is reopen the lines of communication between me and God.
It restores the relationship and was disrupted but not broken by sin.
We believe the Bible and I have attended many different denominations over the years. Each and every one taught directly from the Bible. I know they did because I have taken my Bible to church since I learned how to read many years ago. I followed along in mine.
ROTFLMAO. What do you call Christ's physical sacrifice on the Cross?
So which denomination is the best for you?
Sure I miss going to confession, like I miss having my teeth filled with no novacaine.
The “sacrament” of confession does nothing for a person.
God Himself promises that if we confess our sins HE is faithful and just to forgive us. We don’t need a preist to tell me what God has already told me.
I trust God.
Pity the person who trusts man but not God to tell him something.
Honestly if someone won’t trust God, why the heck do they trust man?
Being sprinkled does not save anyone. It has to come from the heart when you truly accept Jesus. Have you done that?
What spiirtual reality do you think Jesus’ death on the cross caused to happen?
So do you reject John: Chapter 20? Or did Christ one day personally blow on you, also? Do you also have the power to forgive or retain the sins of your brethren?
I'm not talking about a spring shower.
If the church truly teaches from the Bible, it was fine with me. I have attended Assembly of God, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Church of God, Methodist, Church of God of Prophecy, interdominational, etc. Every minister taught directly from the Bible. People are in big trouble if theirs do not.
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