Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

Shameless popery ^ | April 20, 2015

[Dajjal]

bumpus ad summum

[boatbums]

I agree exactly! Involving fellow believers in the day to day needs we have - whether for physical healing, spiritual warfare, personal failings, family, friends, etc. - gives us a stake in each other's lives and we see our faith grow as we acknowledge Almighty God's hand in answering every concern we have. I just don't see that same kind of dynamic happening with prayers to the departed "Saints". There isn't a direct connection - we don't hear, see, touch, speak or otherwise have any assurance that our prayers are "being handled". When our petitions are NOT answered, we have nothing, no feedback, with which to determine WHY they weren't and how we could change in what we ask for.

I also believe it is God that receives ALL the glory, honor and praise when we involve others in interceding with us because we actually see specific requests get answered and we rejoice together in gratitude to our Lord and Savior for His mercy, grace and love and for caring about everything that concerns us. Putting such needs before an unseen, dead person - Saint or saint - just doesn't provide the same assurance of knowing HE hears us and will provide all our needs in Christ Jesus - and He is NEVER too busy.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:6,7)

[daniel1212]

The title is wrong.

True. If Cath wanted to be sure to avoid blasphemy then at least they would be careful to call her the mother of God the Son. RCs even refrain from calling Mary the Theotokos as "God-bearer," which is less likely to be misunderstood than "Mother of God," since that naturally denotes ontological oneness.

But instead RCs insist on the most easily misleading term, as they are either ignorant or would rather exalt Mary as a demigoddess than be careful to avoid fostering a blasphemous idea about Mary.

[daniel1212]

It was a mistake for me to use the word "nobody," since it can be falsified by a single person who holds this erroneous position. That probably led this discussion down a rabbit trail. My bad; sorry.

Thanks. I would have saved me some typing if that had been clarified earlier.

What I ought to have said, is that this is what the Catholic Church calls heresy.

Then you would be saying that what Iscool posted from RCs was heresy. Could you be specific about what was?

I know of nothing that can be said to violate RC doctrine, for while Rome "exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations [not merely exaggerations]...Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church," yet by choosing to primarily use the most easily misunderstood term "Mother of God," since that naturally denotes ontological oneness, then the Vatican itself fosters leading separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church, as evidenced here.

Meanwhile, the gross exaggerations of Mary's place and power by her own popes interpret the such exhortations as the above exaggerations while Rome "admonishes all the sons of the Church that the cult, especially the liturgical cult, of the Blessed Virgin, be generously fostered..." (LUMEN GENTIUM) "Generously fostered" equates to "gross exaggerations" Biblically speaking.

Scripture nowhere records a women who never sinned, and was a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving) and who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as

• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,

• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,

• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"

• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"

• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"

• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"

• "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"

• so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."

• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"

• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"

• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose,"

• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"

• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"

• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"

• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"

• and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more.

BTW, I have seen more expressions of individual and group vilificaion on this thread, than I have seen ever before on the FRRF.

I have actually not been reading thru the tread, only responding to posts to me so i cannot comment on what others see.

[Resettozero]

...RCs insist on the most easily misleading term, as they are either ignorant or would rather exalt Mary as a demigoddess than be careful to avoid fostering a blasphemous idea about Mary.

It's an obvious assessment. That had not come to me before. Thank you.

[metmom]

Amen!!!!

[kinsman redeemer]

...except that we did.

LOL

[Elsie]

ha ha!

[Elsie]

 

Matthew 24,                    A little smaller still...

1 Corinthians 15,             A little smaller still...

 

 

1Thessalonians 4:16-18,

¹⁶ Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.

¹⁷ Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.       (first?)

Revelation 20:6               

 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Yeah; it's mentioned all right.   You've got to post the PREVIOUS verse to find it: ⁵ The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

 

[Elsie]

Speaking of boots and fence posts...

Cowboy Poetry

by Bill Jones

 

 

 

Jake, the rancher, went one day
to fix a distant fence.
The wind was cold and gusty
and the clouds rolled gray and dense.

As he pounded the last staples in
and gathered tools to go,
The temperature had fallen,
the wind and snow began to blow.

When he finally reached his pickup,
he felt a heavy heart.
From the sound of that ignition,
he knew it wouldn't start.

So Jake did what most of us
would do if we had been there.
He humbly bowed his balding head
and sent aloft a prayer.

As he turned the key for the last time,
he softly cursed his luck.
They found him three days later,
frozen stiff in that old truck.

Now Jake had been around in life
and done his share of roaming.
But when he saw Heaven, he was shocked --
it looked just like Wyoming!

Of all the saints in Heaven,
his favorite was St. Peter.
(Now, this here line ain't needed
but it helps with rhyme and meter)

So they sat and talked a minute or two,
or maybe it was three.
Nobody was keeping' score --
in Heaven time is free.

"I've always heard," Jake said to Pete,
"that God will answer prayer,
But one time I asked for help,
well, he just plain wasn't there."

"Does God answer prayers of some,
and ignore the prayers of others?
That don't seem exactly square --
I know all men are brothers."

"Or does he randomly reply,
without good rhyme or reason?
Maybe, it's the time of day,
the weather or the season."

"Now I ain't trying to act smart,
it's just the way I feel.
And I was wondering', could you tell me --
what the heck's the deal?!"

Peter listened very patiently
and when Jake was done,
There were smiles of recognition,
and he said, "So, you're the one!!"

"That day your truck, it wouldn't start,
and you sent your prayer a flying,
You gave us all a real bad time,
with hundreds of us trying."

"A thousand angels rushed,
to check the status of your file,
But you know, Jake, we hadn't heard
from you in quite a long while."

"And though all prayers are answered,
and God ain't got no quota,
He didn't recognize your voice,
and started a truck in Minnesota."

[Elsie]

Ouch!

This'll leave a mark!

[Elsie]

But; since he was merely jabbering away as a mere mortal man; it mattereth not the content of his words.

The church still rolls on...

[Elsie]

Elsie, I have stated in several posts that the phrase “mother of God” is not found in Scripture,

You are indeed correct.

But there are so many Catholics in these threads it's kinda hard to keep y'all separated.

If they'd just QUIT using the Unbiblical 'Mother of GOD' every time they pick up their beads...

[Resettozero]

Yours?

[Resettozero]

N’er mind: Bill Jones.

[Elsie]

Wouldn’t binary 511 be 111111111?

I started hand assembling code on one of these back when you had to use coal oil to illuminate the laboratory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6800

[DungeonMaster]

I love the 6800!!! I started my programming career doing 6803 assembly language.

[Elsie]

But I’m sure you know there is a MAIN one: the place where the entire building is started from.

The coordinate system for laying out land in Utah originates at the cornerstone of the Temple in SLC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Salt_Lake_City

[Elsie]

I was a mere repair technician for the Navy when I came across the development kit at a trade show. It was running a clock program.

It was around $300 bucks IIRC. I then realized that you could SIMULATE logic circuits with this thing that would take many, many TTL packages to do the same job.

So, I plunked down the cash, took it home, soldered it up, and punched in the clock code.

"Great!" said the wife. "We now have a $300 dollar digital clock."

It was amazing what could be written using only 256 bytes of RAM!

[editor-surveyor]

.
That is incorrect information.

Utah is a “Public Land” state, and its mapping is based on Mount Diablo in central California, as are most of the western states.

Never be a Wikipedophile!

They have far more disinformation than real info, by far.
.