Posted on 03/24/2015 3:57:42 PM PDT by NYer
Q: I was talking with an Evangelical co-worker and he said the Bible teaches that once we are “saved,” we can never lose our salvation. Is that true?
A: Absolutely not. In fact, the Bible is full of passages that either directly or indirectly contradict this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved.” For example:
Romans 11:17-23, “But if some of the branches were broken off [the Jews], and you, a wild olive shoot [the Gentiles], were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree [Jesus Christ], do not boast over the branches...For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you...Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many of the Jews have rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.
This is further seen in Galatians 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [sin].”
If once saved always saved is true, then one cannot “submit again” to a “yoke of slavery,” and Paul’s warning makes no sense.
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, though, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.
We also have the Parable of the Prodigal Son, Luke, chapter 15. The Prodigal Son was in his father’s house, and the father here is representative of God the Father. Then, the Prodigal Son leaves his father’s house and goes and lives a sinful life. In the end, though, he repents and returns to his father. After the Prodigal Son returns, the father says this of him in verse 24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
In Evangelical terminology, to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved. Notice very carefully, though, that the father says the son is alive “again.” In other words, the son was alive, or saved, when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable; was “dead,” or unsaved, when he left his father’s house and lived in sin; then was alive again, saved again, when he repented and returned to his father’s house. Alive, dead, alive again. Saved, unsaved, saved again.
Once saved always saved? I don’t think so.
Or maybe you can show me were Jesus ever baptized babies by sprinkling water on them.
For the headache portion of thinking, what are we saved from?
Great point. And, this is the common fallacy with "proof texting" some concept. One must read the entire letter of the writer to understand the direction of the argument. Then a particular remark takes on a broader, wider, more understandable meaning. Talk about YOPIOS...this Catholic character has made up his own theological straw man.
And, incidentally, the Scriptural message, the Word of God, does indeed teach that if a person is among the elect...they cannot lose. That happens to be why "Gospel" is the word for "incredibly good news". But, there goes Rome's ax over the sheeple's heads.
Key words in this passage:
σφραγίζω sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.(HELPS Word-Studies)
ἀρραβών arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).
There are no passages in the NT that ever tells us we are ever unsealed.
Regarding Galatians:
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, though, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.
Context, context, context.
Paul is making the point that if you're counting on circumcision or the Law to save you you're no longer counting on Christ to save you....hence that would be a falling away from the grace of Christ. He is saying if you think doing the works of Law will save you as opposed to Christ.....you are wrong. You are no longer relying upon the forgiveness of Jesus.
Remember who the audience is....Gentile Christians. They are already saved. We have no evidence they attempted to return to Judaism.
The Prodigal Son
Who was Jesus talking to in Luke 15? See Luke 15:1-2
Which groups did the two sons in the parable represent?
Who was attempting to follow God?
Who was not and therefore who was dead?
Who had remained with God?
Who returned back to the Father's house?
Also in Luke 15 read the other two parables about the man who looks for the lost sheep and the woman who looks for the lost coin. What are the reactions of Heaven?
Summary:
The same people who tried to mislead the Galatians are the same people who are trying to mislead you regarding works for salvation.
For those attempting to "earn" their salvation by "works" or keep their salvation by "works; how many do you have to do? How much? How do you know you've done the right ones?
If the catholic dies with unconfessed sin to a priest....do they go to Heaven or Hell? The Roman Catholic Church will tell you Hell as you have severed yourself from Christ due to your sin.
Let me ask this.....were you a sinner before you were saved, that is believed Christ?
Did He allow you into His family then? In other words, were you "good enough" to get in?
Why would He kick you out for your sins? In other words, can you be bad enough that the shed blood of Jesus is insufficient to cover those sins?
Paul was a murderer of Christians and he was forgiven.
David was an adulterer and a murderer and he was forgiven.
Abraham was a liar and an adulterer and he was forgiven. In fact, the Bible says that Abraham BELIEVED God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. And this was before circumcision and the Law.
Peter at one time refused to eat with the Gentiles...yet no one doubts his salvation. He never did.
In fact, none of these individuals ever doubted their salvation.
For those who have placed their faith in Christ, your salvation is secure. We have the Holy Spirit of promise given to us as a pledge of our security.
God does not go back on His promises.
Bless you, NYer.
You lost me.
I look at OSAS as delayed Calvinism, or Calvinism by choice.
Or maybe you can show me were Jesus ever baptized babies by sprinkling water on them.
I would make sure they remained in mortal terror that they could lose their salvation
But once saved always saved does sound nice to the ears.This is a mystery with what appears to be contradictions but are not.
OK, I don’t hold to OSAS. Neither do any Reformed folk.
What’s your point?
Jesus replied, “Your mistake is that you don’t know the Scriptures, and you don’t know the power of God.
If you can lose salvation, then everyone would lose it. We are saved by God’s Gace; not by our own merits.
If we’re talking about a true conversion, then yes, it is.
Philippians 1:6
Romans 8:31-38
John 6:39
Is regeneration a supernatural event ... or not?
Absolutely - but since you do not give up free will, you still have the choice. You cannot lose your salvation accidentally, but you can still choose to walk away.
It’s consistent with this to use an analogy that as a child you would fear to push your father too far because he might whip you to keep you in line... but that doesn’t mean he will toss you out of the house or disown you as a son. And in the end you will learn what your father has been striving to teach you, whether the easy way or the hard way.
Attempts to walk away will be foiled, once you are sealed.
Psalm 139:8. If I go to Hell God’s coming with me.
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