Defending The Pre-trib Rapture

Rapture Ready ^ | 28 Feb 15 | Todd Strandberg

[CynicalBear]

>>No one “departs” before the Man of Sin is revealed.<<

I just showed you were Paul says they do.

[CynicalBear]

>>Thus I endure in the word of God by never listening to you, or anyone, that advances Satan’s ‘pre-trib rapture.’<<

Assigning what the Holy Spirit had the apostles write is NOT a good idea. The Holy Spirit says there will be a departing prior to the unveiling of the evil one.

[sasportas]

“The Writings of the Ante Nicene Fathers”, of which there were about 20 father’s quoted, shows that not one of them believed that the Church was going to be taken before the 70th Week of Daniel.

Agreed. But what of Pseudo-Ephraim, used by Ice and others, which they claim is proof for an imminent rapture? Wasn't Pseudo-Ephraim one of the 20?

[SkyPilot]

Denying that we are in the end period of the 5th seal demonstrates a total lack of basic understanding of the Revelation.

We are in the 5th Seal? Now?

When did the other 4 Seals open?

I must have missed 1/4 of the population of the planet being destroyed.

Revelation 6:7-8
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The population of the planet in 2015 is estimated at approximately 7,324,782,000

When did 1,831,195,500 people die in war and famine? Was it last night? I must have missed that on the news.

[CynicalBear]

>>When did 1,831,195,500 people die in war and famine? Was it last night? I must have missed that on the news.<<

Twisting and allagorizing coming in 3..2..1..

[delchiante]

Wars, famines, etc have occurred for centuries and some read it as a history lesson for our time where we are just at the 6th seal..

They see 1260 days as years and some reformers pegged the papacy as the seat of the Antichrist and I suspect that Pope as the Antichrist or son of perditiin..

Some people see that fullfilmwnt of a 42 months or 1260 days or whatever breakdowm that point to 1798 as a day the papacy was delivered a ‘fatal’ head wound and was captured. 1260 years after they were given authority which would date back sometime 1260 years prior to 1798...

And you know, the history sense hasn’t really smacked that theory down as the pope and papacy have grown into prominence since then even though the pope had been captured way back then..

If somebody sees those seals occurring since the resurrection certainly billions have been ravaged over 2000 years..

It is another way to see parts of revelation.. like a history lesson that spans hundreds of years, not just 7...

[SkyPilot]

Well, that's quite a theory. I would say it makes much more literal sense (and I always take the Bible literally), that the seals are opened after the Rapture, and the seals are not opened over thousands and thousands of years.

Jesus saw and described the same events (Matthew 24:9) that He allowed John to see.

This makes much more sense (again, the Bible must be taken literally) than the theory you laid out about the 1260 days of Daniel really being years, the Pope, something about 1798 and the Pope, and then smattering in every war and famine in history, hitting the add key, then equals, and coming up with the conclusion that this is how God chose to reveal the End Times to us.

I could be wrong you know. I am not omniscient!

However, this author makes much more sense to me.

A great way to locate the timing of the rapture is by studying the breaking of the first six seals in Revelation 6. The Apostle John saw great trouble released by the breaking of each of the first five seals. Jesus saw the same events and called this the tribulation (Matthew 24:9). Both John and Jesus saw a time of trouble coming in the last days that would include wars, famines, earthquakes, persecution, and the murder of many saints, and the rise of the antichrist (Matthew 24:4-19). As bad as these things are, Jesus said these are merely the beginning of birth pangs (Matthew 24:8). Since there have always been wars, famines, earthquakes, persecution, and martyrs, we cannot conclude yet that both passages are referring to the same events. But both John and Jesus saw another event that only happens one time in all of human history, the rise of the antichrist. They both saw the actions of the antichrist during this time of trouble. Since there is only one antichrist, we can conclude they both saw the same events during the same time period. John saw a rider on a white horse receives a crown after the first seal is broken. The white horse is a symbol of conquest, but also represents a counterfeit of the Messiah who promised to return riding on a white horse. This false Messiah is the antichrist. After receiving his first crown he begins using his crown to gain more crowns (Revelation 6:1-2). This marks the beginning of his rise to power and the beginning of the tribulation period. Jesus saw the antichrist near the end of the tribulation period. He saw him entering the temple and standing in the holy place, which is what the prophet Daniel called the abomination that brings desolation (Matthew 24:15). This arrogant action is the pivotal point that brings an end to the time of birth pangs. The cup of the wrath of God is full and about to be poured out. The tribulation period ends and the great tribulation is about to begin.

[ravenwolf]

If you go to that site StarTraveler posted, every paper and article that clicked on was literally loaded with Scripture references.

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If we go to the Bible it is all scripture.

[delchiante]

I am glad you wrote that because I will say something very unpopular.

It has to do with the counterfeit Messiah.

I see how Rome has counterfeited the True Genuine Messiah in our time..

Jesus born on December 25, killed on good Friday and raised Easter Sunday bear no scriptural truth..
Those are, even the name Jesus, is founded in Roman traditions..

The real Messiah was born on a New Moon Day, an appointed time He gave Israel to worship,,
That ‘sign’ is recorded in revelation 12.

Scripture records the genuine Messiah laid His life down on Passover, the 14th day of the 1st month. An appointed time He gave Israel for worship.

He laid in the tomb and rested on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, 15th day.. a High Sabbath appointed by Him to Israel for worship.

And He was raised on the 16thday, feast of First Fruits (the first day of the week) another appointed time He gave Israel for worship,.

All of those genuine Truths can be found in scripture..

That is not what Rome teaches.. they have another ‘gospel’ than what Paul preached. he taught Passover, unleavened bread and first fruits..

What if the Jesus Rome teaches and worships is the counterfeit? A clever copy that cannot be detected without careful study of the genuine..

The antichrist. My concordance says anti can mean ‘instead of’, ‘in place of’..

When I saw that even the name Jesus can be explained away with scripture witnesses, I have no problem saying I met the Savior as the Roman Jesus, but He didn’t let me stay there..

And if there is a rapture, maybe lots of people who think they worship in spirit and Truth are really being deceived by the seat of the antichriat.. the papacy that says their Jesus is God..

Without testing and proving all things did I get led to this...

People may be waiting for the antichrist to hit the scene when they worship him thanks to Rome and the papacy..

I have even studied the mark of the beast and the number of his name.. it all can be pointed to Rome...

And Protestants may be willing to say some of it.. but most just think that catholics worship Jesus ‘wrong’..

They don’t think that Rome’s Jesus is ‘another Jesus’..

I was a protestant who didn’t see Christmas or Easter as ‘catholic’.. they were ‘christian’..

Now I see them as the seat of the antichrist’s holy days.. days that counterfeit the genuine Truth found in scripture..

But I am different. I reject the pope Gregory calendar the world usea to set their work and worship lives..

I came out of Babylon..

[ravenwolf]

There are several Scripture that reference the Rapture.

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I used to go to a church that taught the rapture theory, but except for Thessalonian’s I have never been able to see it.

Paul is the one who wrote the verse about meeting the lord in the air but he also said that as in Adam all die and that we can not be changed except we die. 1 cor 15:30

I can be wrong but I do not believe it.

[rabidralph]

When the Bible mentions people being asleep, it means they are dead and are not conscious of anything, as we commonly are when sleeping. It does not mean that people are ignorant of something.

[editor-surveyor]

You’re obviously not a student of history, nor of current events.

The seals began being opened soon after John died. This is just another wound that Dispensationalism inflicts on would-be believers.

BTW the true population of the Earth is just under 5 billion. The rest is hogwash from the death culture that is working to extinguish human life.

[SkyPilot]

You’re obviously not a student of history, nor of current events.

Actually, I am.

The seals began being opened soon after John died.

Where do you get that from Scripture?

BTW the true population of the Earth is just under 5 billion.

You are incorrect - again:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

http://populationpyramid.net/world/2015/

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2014/12/31/us-population-2015-320-million-and-world-population-72-billion

[ravenwolf]

When the Bible mentions people being asleep, it means they are dead and are not conscious of anything,

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That is true but when Paul said we shall not all sleep, he could have meant that we will be changed at the time of death rather than sleep for a hundred or a thousand years or more like many did.

He did not say we would not die.

[SkyPilot]

If we go to the Bible it is all scripture.

That's true. I don't know where you got this high horse that posters on this site discounted the Bible. I have heard similar criticism at folks who read every Christian author but don't read the Bible that often. I can give credence to that rebuke. But what you are coming up with out of thin air is very strange. Myself, and other posters quoted Scripture, directly, from the Bible. You seemed to get your nose out of joint when someone posted a link to a pre-tribulation Rapture research site. I see nothing wrong with that, and I don't think your criticism is valid.

[editor-surveyor]

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No surprise that you use Babylon’s “statistics” since you use their theology.

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[SkyPilot]

No surprise that you use Babylon’s “statistics” since you use their theology.

Lol! So you got caught with your pants down misstating the factual population of the planet, and you attack me as being part of Babylon!? Ha Ha Ha Ha!

I guess you posted that to me using a keyboard, conceived, constructed, and powered by the Babylon system! Oh, you Babylonite!

[editor-surveyor]

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>> “He did not say we would not die.” <<

Yes he did say that those alive at the Resurrection would not die but be changed to uncorruptible spiritual bodies, like Yeshua explained to Nicodemus in John 3:8.

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