Posted on 02/28/2015 2:38:16 PM PST by SkyPilot
1 Thessalonians 4:13
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope."
The Last Trumpet, also, is the trumpet blown during the Feast of Trumpets. That particular feast begins when two Jewish witnesses would see the new moon - and no one never knew the day or hour the feast would begin. That is why it has 2 days to begin. I believe Christ was giving us insight when he said no man knows the day or the hour of His return for His people.
The most convincing argument to me about a pre-tribulation rapture is the Doctrine of Imminentcy.
Christ said He will come like a thief in the night. Like a master who returns and the servant does not know when. Christ said two would be in the field, one would be taken, one would be left. If the rapture happens mid or post tribulation, then we would know exactly when it would occur based on the timeline of Revelation and Daniel. But we don't know, because Christ was clear. So therefore the mid and post tribulation raptures fail on the point completely.
Maranatha!
Long-winded article. Attacking or defending a rapture is immaterial. It will either happen or it won’t. You either prepare for it or you don’t. But arguing about it is stupid.
Those who don’t understand the fact of the pre trib rapture get much of the rest of scripture wrong also.
Sorry, ain’t gonna happen. You will have to suffer the tribulation with the rest of us. I promise you, I will not judge and will hold your hand and love you and guide you through the most frightful period of human history we could ever imagine. May Christ our Savior protect us.
Not once in all of history are those faithful to God subjected to His wrath. The “time of Jacobs trouble” must be seven years long to fulfil the prophesies of Daniel.
Actually, I think this is a great idea. I’m one that doesn’t believe in a pre-trib rapture but I think the idea of posting on the web in one place is great for discussion and debate. I think it could help to clarify certain aspects of each view and clear up some misunderstandings or show alternative points of view - so thanks for posting. And like he stated, it puts all the ideas and supporting scripture, articles, history in one place. No one likes to write a book for each post ;- )
Hmmm ... how long has the word “Replacementism” been in use? I’ve read a lot about Relacement Theology and Supercessionism ... but I’ve never seen “Replacementism” used before!
God doesn’t want Christians here during the Tribulation because they would MUCK UP GOD’s PLANS for that time period. It has nothing to do with whether those Christians “should” or “should not” suffer during that time, but that God doesn’t want Christians REALLY SCREWING THINGS UP FOR HIM ... :-) ...
You said ... “Long-winded article. Attacking or defending a rapture is immaterial. It will either happen or it won’t. You either prepare for it or you don’t. But arguing about it is stupid.”
— — —
God intends for Christians to understand His REVEALED WORD. God doesn’t give us His Revealed Word and then say, “There is no need to understand what I just revealed to you!” ... :-) ...
As an orthodox Lutheran I’ve never believed in Rapture/Left Behind pre-millenial dispensationalism (emphasis on sensationalism).
However, I didn’t realize until recently that this doctrine is often very harmful and leads to a bunch of other dangerous theological ideas and rabbit trails.
A former Evangelical who was raised on Rapturized theology but eventually became Lutheran has been enlightening me week by week, on the radio program Issues, Etc.
Just last week he discussed this very subject. If anyone is interested, go to the link below and listen. Then you can search the archives for “Wolfmueller” and find other interviews he’s done on various pitfalls of Evangelicalism... he knows from personal experience and years of deep study.
LINK:
Responding to Evangelical Prooftexts: The Secret Rapture in Matthew 24:36-42 – Pr. Bryan Wolfmueller, 2/24/15
http://issuesetc.org/2015/02/24/2-responding-to-evangelical-prooftexts-the-secret-rapture-in-matthew-2436-42-pr-bryan-wolfmueller-22415/
A fatal accident, heart attack, stroke, etc all have the same effect of causing us to suddenly and unexpectedly come face to face with Christ.
I generally think some...a minority of believers will be protected in some form during the tribulation but scripture to me appears to indicate that many if not most will have to pass through a difficult winnowing process.
“It amazes me that some folks write to me, questioning the validity of the rapture, simply because the word “rapture” doesn’t appear in the Bible.”
It does actually “raptura”
Prewrath rapture. This scholarly book nails it - “Before God’s Wrath”, author H. L. Nigro (woman).
Funny this thread was put up while I’m reading this book. I was Pretrib most of my life but I think that is incorrect and believe the Bible supports Prewrath.
I recommend this book, using old and new testament scripture, to answer questions concerning the timing of the rapture.
LOL Not sure where you got that “muck up” idea from but it is part of it.
Well ... the phrasing of it is my choice of words, but it gets the idea across in a memorable way ... :-) ...
“Pre-wrath proponents say that the Seventh Trumpet blown in Rev 11:15-18 is the same last trump Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 15:52. However, they fail to take into account the fact that John wrote Revelation 40 years after Paul wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?”
Plus the trumpet will be sounded by the angels in one event, and God in the other. Two separate trumps.
Great book! I noted a few years back that you couldn't find this book anywhere in southern Christian book stores. I don't think the stores wanted to rock the 'Left Behind' money boat. Rosenthal's 'Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church' is another excellent read...
Let me simplify that for you ...
(1) If Saved — “Raptured”
(2) Not Saved — “Not Raptured”
No need to complicate things ... :-) ...
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