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Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation
Catholic Defense ^ | February 25, 2015

Posted on 02/25/2015 11:50:17 AM PST by NYer

Lines from the Lord's Prayer, in various languages.
From the Eucharist Door at the Glory Facade of the Sagrada Família in Barcelona, Spain.

It's Lent in Rome. That means it's time for one of the great Roman traditions: station churches. Each morning, English-speaking pilgrims walk to a different church for Mass. This morning, on the way to St. Anastasia's, I was once again struck by a line in the Our Father: “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” That's a hard thing to pray, It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Even the Catechism seems shocked by it:

This petition is astonishing. If it consisted only of the first phrase, "And forgive us our trespasses," it might have been included, implicitly, in the first three petitions of the Lord's Prayer, since Christ's sacrifice is "that sins may be forgiven." But, according to the second phrase, our petition will not be heard unless we have first met a strict requirement. Our petition looks to the future, but our response must come first, for the two parts are joined by the single word "as."
Upon arriving at Mass, I discovered that the Gospel for the day was Matthew 6:7-15, in which Christ introduces this prayer. That seemed too serendipitous to simply be a coincidence. Then Archbishop Di Noia, O.P., got up to preach the homily, and it was all about how to understand this particular petition. So here goes: I think that the Lord's Prayer is flatly inconsistent with sola fide, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone. Here's why.

In this line of the Lord's Prayer, Jesus seems to be explicitly conditioning our forgiveness on our forgiving. Indeed, it's hard to read “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” any other way. What's more, after introducing the prayer, Jesus focuses on this line, in particular. Here's how He explains it (Matthew 6:14-15):
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
So to be forgiven, you must forgive. If you do, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, you won't be. It's as simple as that.

So Christ has now told us three times that our being forgiven is conditioned upon our forgiving, using the most explicit of language. How does Luther respond to this? “God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace.” And what is Calvin's response? “The forgiveness, which we ask that God would give us, does not depend on the forgiveness which we grant to others.”

Their theology forces them to deny Christ's plain words, since admitting them would concede that we need something more than faith alone: we also need to forgive our neighbors. They've painted themselves into a corner, theologically. To get out of it, they change this part of the Our Father into either a way that we can know that we're saved (Luther's approach: that God “set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer”) or a non-binding moral exhortation (Calvin's: “to remind us of the feelings which we ought to cherish towards brethren, when we desire to be reconciled to God”).

Modern Protestants tend to do the same thing with these verses, and countless other passages in which Christ or the New Testament authors teach us about something besides faith that's necessary for salvation. We see this particularly in regards to the Biblical teaching on the saving role of Baptism (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21) and works (Matthew 25:31-46; Romans 2:6-8; James 2). There are three common tactics employed:

  1. Reverse the causality. If a passage says that you must do X in order to be saved, claim that it really means that if you're saved, you'll just naturally do X. Thus, X is important for showing that you're saved, but it doesn't actually do anything, and certainly isn't necessary for salvation (even if the Bible says otherwise: Mark 16:16).
  2. No True Scotsman. If Scripture says that someone believed and then lost their salvation (like Simon the Magician in Acts 8, or the heretics mentioned in 2 Peter 2), say that they must not have ever actually believed (even if the Bible says the opposite: Acts 8:13, 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22).
  3. Spiritualize the passage into oblivion. If the Bible says that Baptism is necessary for salvation, argue that this is just a “spiritual” Baptism that means nothing more than believing. And if you need to get around the need to be “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) spiritualize this, too, to get rid of the need for water. Reduce everything to a symbol, or a metaphor for faith.

In fairness to both the Reformers and to modern Protestants, they want to avoid any notion that we can earn God's forgiveness or our salvation. This doesn't justify denying or distorting Christ's words, but it's a holy impulse. And in fact, it was the theme of Abp. Di Noia's homily this morning. Grace is a gift, and what's more, grace is what enables us to forgive others. This point is key, because it explains why Christ isn't teaching something like Pelagianism.

God freely pours out His graces upon us, which bring about both (a) our forgiveness, and (b) our ability to forgive others. But we can choose to accept that grace and act upon it, or to reject it. And that decision has eternal consequences. Such an understanding is harmonious with Christ's actual words, while avoiding any idea that we possess the power to earn our salvation.

So both Catholics and Protestants reject Pelagianism, but there's a critical difference. Catholics believe that grace enables us to do good works, whereas Protestants tend to believe that grace causes us to do good works. To see why it matters, consider the parable of the unmerciful servant, Matthew 18:21-35. In this parable, we see three things happen:

  1. A debtor is forgiven an enormous debt of ten thousand talents (Mt. 18:25-27). Solely through the grace of the Master (clearly representing God), this man is forgiven his debts (sins). He is in a state of grace.
  2. This debtor refuses to forgive his neighbor of a small debt of 100 denarii (Mt. 18:28-30). The fact that he's been forgiven should enable the debtor to be forgiving: in being forgiven, he's received the equivalent of 60,000,000 denarii, and he's certainly seen a moral model to follow. But he turns away from the model laid out by the Master, and refuses to forgive his neighbor.
  3. This debtor is unforgiven by his Master (Mt. 18:32-35). The kicker comes at the very end: “And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Now, consider all of the Protestant work-arounds discussed above. To deny that this debtor was ever really forgiven would be an insult to the Master and in contradiction to the text. To say that, if we're forgiven, we'll just naturally forgive is equally a contradiction: this debtor is forgiven, and doesn't. To treat the need to forgive the other debtor as a non-binding moral exhortation would have been a fatal error. 

This parable gets to the heart of the issue. The Master's forgiveness is freely given, and cannot be earned. But that doesn't mean it's given unconditionally or irrevocably. Quite the contrary: Christ shows us in this parable that it can be repealed, and tells us why: if we refuse to forgive, we will not be forgiven. It turns out, the Lord's Prayer actually means what it says.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: bumpusadsummum; calvin; catholic; faithalone; forgiveness; forgivingtrespasses; luther; ourfather; paternoster; prayer; solafide; thelordsprayer; theourfather
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To: ealgeone

I’m not sure I understand the question, since I don’t know what is meant by “the Catholic written doctrine.”

But I’l make a stab at it:

The Catholic Church teaches that the Scriptures are inspired through the power of the Holy Spirit, and that they teach inerrantly what the Holy Spirit intended to teach. The Catholic Church teaches nothing that contradicts the teaching contained in Scripture.


341 posted on 02/27/2015 1:30:29 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero

The theory of Limbo was an attempt to answer the question: Are unbaptized babies damned.

Since you sneered at the existence of the theory of Limbo, I think it’s perfectly legitimate to ask you what YOUR answer to the question is.

Are unbaptized babies damned when they die?


342 posted on 02/27/2015 1:33:15 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Since you sneered at the existence of the theory of Limbo, I think it’s perfectly legitimate to ask you what YOUR answer to the question is. Are unbaptized babies damned when they die?

First, you answer my question posted before you tried this dodge of asking me yet another question instead of answering.

My question to you was this: Which is superior, the Catholic written doctrines or the Holy Bible?

(When there is a conflict, which of these scriptures takes precedence?)
343 posted on 02/27/2015 1:46:52 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan
The Catholic Church teaches nothing that contradicts the teaching contained in Scripture.

You are gravely mistaken and even the RCs reading this must find it hard to defend your apparent error is saying this statement.
344 posted on 02/27/2015 1:49:52 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan

A McG: “The Catholic Church teaches nothing that contradicts the teaching contained in Scripture.”

Unless you mean scriptures other than the Holy Bible.

YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN ME A DIRECT ANSWER TO ANY QUESTION!!!


345 posted on 02/27/2015 1:52:21 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan; ealgeone
I’m not sure I understand the question, since I don’t know what is meant by “the Catholic written doctrine.”

Concentrate please. I asked the question of you, not ealgeone.

You do not understand the meaning of "the Catholic written doctrine". Is that what you just posted?
346 posted on 02/27/2015 1:59:33 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

“The Catholic written doctrine” is not a term of art in Catholic theology.


347 posted on 02/27/2015 2:12:54 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero

Maybe because you ask only “gotcha” questions rather than sincere questions.


348 posted on 02/27/2015 2:13:48 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero

There is never a conflict. Therefore, the question “When there is a conflict...” cannot be answered.


349 posted on 02/27/2015 2:14:57 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Okay, Arthur, okay.

Vegas wins; honest conversation loses again on the Religion Forum thread.

(Some priest.)


350 posted on 02/27/2015 2:19:52 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Iscool

Since you reject the theory of Limbo (which, BTW, was never the teaching of the Church, only a theory), it is fair to ask:

What do YOU say happens to unbaptized babies who die?

Are they saved or damned?


351 posted on 02/27/2015 2:39:09 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero; Arthur McGowan
It looks like you don't like his answer, which he gave repeatedly. The Church and Scripture do not, CAN not, contradict one another.

As loathe as I am to do it, I'll cite Pope Francis on this subject. It's a bit long but I think that cutting any part of it out does a disservice:

As we know, the Sacred Scriptures are the written testimony of the divine word, the canonical memorial that testifies to the event of Revelation. The Word of God therefore precedes and exceeds the Bible. This is why our faith is not only centred on a book but on a history of salvation and above all on a Person, Jesus Christ, the Word of God made flesh. Precisely because the horizon of the divine word embraces and extends beyond Scripture, to understand it adequately the constant presence of the Holy Spirit is necessary, who “will guide you into all the truth” (Jn 16:13). We must put ourselves in line with the great Tradition which, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and of the Magisterium, recognized the canonical writings as a word which God addressed to his People and never ceased to meditate on them and to discover their inexhaustible riches. The Second Vatican Council reasserted very clearly in the Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum: “All that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God” (n. 12).

As the above mentioned conciliar Constitution reminds us, there is an inseparable unity between Sacred Scripture and Tradition because both come from the same source: “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal. Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit. And Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the Apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the Apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching. Thus it comes about that the Church does not draw her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone. Hence, both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal feelings of devotion and reverence” (ibid., n. 9).

It follows that the exegete must be attentive to perceiving the word of God present in the biblical texts, fitting them into the Church’s faith itself. The interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures cannot only be an individual scientific effort. Rather, it must always be confronted, inserted and authenticated by the living Tradition of the Church. This rule is decisive in order to explain the correct and reciprocal relationship between exegesis and the Magisterium of the Church. The texts inspired by God were entrusted to the Community of believers, to the Church of Christ, to nourish faith and to guide the life of charity. Respect for this profound nature of the Scriptures conditions the validity and effectiveness of biblical hermeneutics. This highlights the inadequacy of every interpretation that is subjective or is limited merely to an analysis incapable of grasping that global meaning which in the course of the centuries has built up the Tradition of the entire People of God which in credendo falli nequit [“cannot err in matters of belief”] (Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 12).

352 posted on 02/27/2015 2:40:12 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
“The Catholic written doctrine” is not a term of art in Catholic theology.

But in the English language, it is...Arthur McGowan.
353 posted on 02/27/2015 2:41:53 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Arthur McGowan
There is never a conflict. Therefore, the question “When there is a conflict...” cannot be answered.

Yes it could, if you would, but obviously...and so far...you won't. That is easily understood by all readers.
354 posted on 02/27/2015 2:43:32 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

Good question. I have some thoughts. not sure if they add to what you already know about the subject or not, since I don’t know your level of knowledge in this area.

I’m off to a dinner at the moment but later I’ll summarize what we learned from the previous discussion about names then I’ll offer my thoughts on the relationship between scripture and doctrine. in the meantime if you have specific knowledge of Catholic teaching on the latter subject please be sure to describe it so that my response will not be viewed as posting things that you already know.


355 posted on 02/27/2015 2:46:29 PM PST by edwinland
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To: Arthur McGowan
Maybe because you ask only “gotcha” questions rather than sincere questions.

Not a factual statement, Arthur McGowan, and easily disprovable.

-30-

R2z
356 posted on 02/27/2015 2:46:30 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: edwinland
Good question. I have some thoughts. not sure if they add to what you already know about the subject or not, since I don’t know your level of knowledge in this area. I’m off to a dinner at the moment but later I’ll summarize what we learned from the previous discussion about names then I’ll offer my thoughts on the relationship between scripture and doctrine. in the meantime if you have specific knowledge of Catholic teaching on the latter subject please be sure to describe it so that my response will not be viewed as posting things that you already know.

Thank you but, here on Friday evening, I'd just as soon drop my part in the discussion on this thread. Catholic priests are wearing me out today with less than candid responses and I no longer care about my original questions...whatever they were...for now.

-30-

R2z


357 posted on 02/27/2015 2:54:03 PM PST by Resettozero
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Comment #358 Removed by Moderator

To: Resettozero; Arthur McGowan
AM: The Catholic Church teaches nothing that contradicts the teaching contained in Scripture.

R: You are gravely mistaken and even the RCs reading this must find it hard to defend your apparent error is saying this statement.

Well, I'm an "RC" reading this, and I find no difficulty at all defending that statement. Most of the objections that Protestants have to Catholic belief and practice are things that the P's don't see clearly taught in Scripture. So most don't involve a contradiction at all, just what they see as lack of clear Scriptural basis.

359 posted on 02/27/2015 3:02:34 PM PST by CpnHook
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To: CpnHook
Well, I'm an "RC" reading this, and I find no difficulty at all defending that statement. Most of the objections that Protestants have to Catholic belief and practice are things that the P's don't see clearly taught in Scripture. So most don't involve a contradiction at all, just what they see as lack of clear Scriptural basis.

I see your point and you are correct about FReepers seeing a "lack of clear Scriptural basis" for many Roman Catholic beliefs and practices, as has been demonstrated by FReepers on the Religion Forum many times and in many rebuttals on many threads over many years.

If I understand what your post means, Catholics can make up any doctrine that cannot be DISPROVEN by the Holy Bible.
360 posted on 02/27/2015 4:05:26 PM PST by Resettozero
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