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Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)
Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

Posted on 01/24/2015 3:23:43 PM PST by NYer

In my new book, Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines, , I spend most of its pages in classic apologetic defense of Mary as Mother of God, defending her immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, her Queenship, and her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix. But perhaps my most important contributions in the book may well be how I demonstrate each of these doctrines to be crucial for our spiritual lives and even our salvation.

And I should note that this applies to all of the Marian doctrines. Not only Protestants, but many Catholics will be surprised to see how the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, for example, is crucial for all Christians to understand lest they misapprehend the truth concerning the sacred, marriage, sacraments, the consecrated life, and more.

I won’t attempt to re-produce the entire book in this post, but I will choose one example among examples I use to demonstrate why Mary as Mother of God not only matters, but how denying this dogma of the Faith can end in the loss of understanding of “the one true God and Jesus Christ whom [God] has sent” (John 17:3). It doesn’t get any more serious than that!  

In my book, I use the teaching of the late, well-known, and beloved Protestant Apologist, Dr. Walter Martin, as one of my examples. In his classic apologetics work, Kingdom of the Cults, Dr. Martin, gives us keen insight into why the dogma of the Theotokos (“God-bearer,” a synonym with “Mother of God”) is such a “big deal.” But first some background information.

 Truth and Consequences

It is very easy to state what it is that you don’t believe. That has been the history of Protestantism. Protestantism itself began as a… you guessed it… “protest.” “We are against this, this, this, and this.” It was a “protest” against Catholicism. However, the movement could not continue to exist as a protestant against something. It had to stand for something. And that is when the trouble began. When groups of non-infallible men attempted to agree, the result ended up being the thousands of Protestant sects we see today.

Dr. Walter Martin was a good Protestant. He certainly and boldly proclaimed, “I do not believe Mary is the Mother of God.” That’s fine and good. The hard part came when he had to build a theology congruent with his denial. With Dr. Martin, it is difficult to know for sure whether his bad Christology came before or after his bad Mariology—I argue it was probably bad Christology that came first—but let’s just say for now that in the process of theologizing about both Jesus and Mary, he ended up claiming Mary was “the mother of Jesus’ body,” and not the Mother of God. He claimed Mary “gave Jesus his human nature alone,” so that we cannot say she is the Mother of God; she is the mother of the man, Jesus Christ.

This radical division of humanity and divinity manifests itself in various ways in Dr. Martin’s theology. He claimed, for example, that “sonship” in Christ has nothing at all to do with God in his eternal relations within the Blessed Trinity. In Martin’s Christology, divinity and humanity are so sharply divided that he concluded “eternal sonship” to be an unbiblical Catholic invention. On page 103 of his 1977 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults, he wrote:

[T]here cannot be any such thing as eternal Sonship, for there is a logical contradiction of terminology due to the fact that the word “Son” predicates time and the involvement of creativity. Christ, the Scripture tells us, as the Logos, is timeless, “…the Word was in the beginning” not the Son!

From Martin’s perspective then, Mary as “Mother of God” is a non-starter. If “Son of God” refers to Christ as the eternal son, then there would be no denying that Mary is the mother of the Son of God, who is God; hence, Mother of God would be an inescapable conclusion. But if sonship only applies to “time and creativity,” then references to Mary’s “son” would not refer to divinity at all.

But there is just a little problem here. Beyond the fact that you don’t even need the term “Son” at all to determine Mary is the Mother God because John 1:14 tells us “the Word was made flesh,” and John 1:1 tells us “the Word was God;” thus, Mary is the mother of the Word and so she is the Mother of God anyway, the sad fact is that in the process of Martin’s theologizing he ended up losing the real Jesus. Notice, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is no longer the Eternal Son! And it gets worse from here, if that is possible! Martin would go on:

The term “Son” itself is a functional term, as is the term “Father” and has no meaning apart from time. The term “Father” incidentally never carries the descriptive adjective “eternal” in Scripture; as a matter of fact, only the Spirit is called eternal (“the eternal Spirit”—Hebrews 9:14), emphasizing the fact that the words Father and Son are purely functional as previously stated.

It would be difficult to overstate the importance of what we are saying here. Jesus revealed to us the essential truth that God exists eternally as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in his inner life. For Martin, God would be father by analogy in relation to the humanity of Christ, but not in the eternal divine relations; hence, he is not the eternal Father. So, not only did Dr. Martin end up losing Jesus, the eternal Son; he lost the Father as well! This compels us to ask the question: Who then is God, the Blessed Trinity, in eternity, according to Dr. Walter Martin and all those who agree with his theology? He is not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He must be the eternal … Blahthe Word, and the Holy Spirit (Martin did teach Christ to be the Eternal Word, just not the Eternal Son). He would become a father by analogy when he created the universe and again by analogy at the incarnation of the Word and through the adoption of all Christians as “sons of God.” But he would not be the eternal Father. The metaphysical problems begin here and continue to eternity… literally. Let us now summarize Dr. Martin’s teaching and some of the problems it presents:

1. Fatherhood and Sonship would not be intrinsic to God. The Catholic Church understands that an essential aspect of Christ’s mission was to reveal God to us as he is in his inner life as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Jews already understood God to be father by analogy, but they had no knowledge of God as eternal Father in relation to the Eternal Son. In Jesus’ great high priestly prayer in John 17, he declared his Father was Father “before the world was made” and thus, to quote CCC 239, in “an unheard-of sense.” In fact, Christ revealed God’s name as Father. Names in Hebrew culture reveal something about the character of the one named. Thus, he reveals God to be Father, not just that he is like a father. God never becomes Father; he is the eternal Father

2. If Sonship applies only to humanity and time, the “the Son” would also be extrinsic, or outside, if you will, of the Second Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity. Thus, as much as he would have denied it, Dr. Martin effectively creates two persons to represent Christ—one divine and one human. This theology leads to the logical conclusion that the person who died on the cross 2,000 years ago would have been merely a man. If that were so, he would have no power to save us. Scripture reveals Christ as the savior, not merely a delegate of God the savior. He was fully man in order to make fitting atonement for us. He was fully God in order to have the power to save us.

3. This theology completely reduces the revelation of God in the New Covenant that separates Christianity from all religions of the world. Jesus revealed God as he is from all eternity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Dr. Martin reduces this to mere function. Thus, “Father” does not tell us who God is, only what God does. Radical feminists do something similar when they refuse to acknowledge God as “Father.” God becomes reduced to that which he does as “Creator, Redeeemer, and Sanctifier” and int he process where is a truly tragic loss of the knowledge of who God is. In the case of Dr. Walter Martin, it was bad theology that lead to a similar loss.

4. There is a basic metaphysical principle found, for example, in Malachi 3:6, that comes into play here as well: “For I the Lord do not change.” In defense of Dr. Martin, he did seem to realize that one cannot posit change in the divine persons. As stated above, “fatherhood” and “sonship” wold not relate to divinity at all in his way of thinking. Thus, he became a proper Nestorian (though he would never have admitted that) that divides Christ into two persons. And that is bad enough. However, one must be very careful here because when one posits the first person of the Blessed Trinity became the Father, and the second person of the Blessed Trinity became the Son, it becomes very easy to slip into another heresy that would admit change into the divine persons. Later in Behold Your Mother, I employ the case of a modern Protestant apologist who regrettably takes that next step. But you’ll have to get the book to read about that one.

The bottom line here is this: It appears Dr. Walter Martin’s bad Christology led to a bad Mariology. But I argue in Behold Your Mother that if he would have understood Mary as Theotokos, it would have been impossible for him to lose his Christological bearings. The moment the thought of sonship as only applying to humanity in Christ would have arisen, a Catholic Dr. Walter Martin would have known that Mary is Mother of God. He would have lost neither the eternal Son nor the eternal Father because Theotokos would have guarded him from error. The prophetic words of Lumen Gentium 65 immediately come to mind: “Mary… unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith.” A true Mariology serves as a guarantor against bad Christology.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; christology; mariandoctrine; motherofgod; theology; virginmary
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About the Author

Tim Staples is Director of Apologetics and Evangelization here at Catholic Answers, but he was not always Catholic. Tim was raised a Southern Baptist. Although he fell away from the faith of his childhood, Tim came back to faith in Christ during his late teen years through the witness of Christian televangelists. Soon after, Tim joined the Marine Corps. During his four-year tour, he became involved in ministry with various Assemblies of God communities. Immediately after his tour of duty, Tim enrolled in Jimmy Swaggart Bible College and became a youth minister in an Assembly of God community. During his final year in the Marines, however, Tim met a Marine who really knew his faith and challenged Tim to study Catholicism from Catholic and historical sources. That encounter sparked a two-year search for the truth. Tim was determined to prove Catholicism wrong, but he ended up studying his way to the last place he thought he would ever end up: the Catholic Church! He converted to Catholicism in 1988 and spent the following six years in formation for the priesthood, earning a degree in philosophy from St. Charles Borromeo Seminary in Overbrook, Pennsylvania. He then studied theology on a graduate level at Mount St. Mary s Seminary in Emmitsburg, Maryland, for two years. Realizing that his calling was not to the priesthood, Tim left the seminary in 1994 and has been working in Catholic apologetics and evangelization ever since.

H/t to freeper Heart Rest for posting the EWTN interview between Fr. Mitch Pacwa and Tim Staples here. Throughout the discussion, Tim expounded on how Dr. Martin's dismissal of Mary as Mother of God resulted in the dismissal of Jesus as Eternal Son.

1 posted on 01/24/2015 3:23:43 PM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; Salvation; ...

Thanks to Heart Rest for the discussion! Catholic ping!


2 posted on 01/24/2015 3:24:39 PM PST by NYer (Without justice - what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer

Thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 01/24/2015 3:37:36 PM PST by aposiopetic
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To: NYer
her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix...

Whaaaat?

4 posted on 01/24/2015 3:37:53 PM PST by sauropod (Fat Bottomed Girl: "What difference, at this point, does it make?")
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To: NYer

Could this explain maybe why Martin Luther was circumspect in his comments about the Blessed Virgin Mary?

http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.php


5 posted on 01/24/2015 3:38:15 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: NYer

Is Mary omniscient?


6 posted on 01/24/2015 3:44:18 PM PST by tbpiper
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To: NYer

“her immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, her Queenship, and her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix”

I appreciate these posts because I didn’t know Catholics actually believed these extreme things.

Christ, for example, is the only redeemer and the theology reflected in the author’s sentence I quoted is not Consonant with Christian Biblical theology.

It really is a Mary worship and making Jesus’s mother her a type of god herself.


7 posted on 01/24/2015 3:44:29 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: don-o
Could this explain maybe why Martin Luther was circumspect in his comments about the Blessed Virgin Mary?

In the interview with Fr. Mitch Pacwa, Tim explained that with the denominational protestant churches (Lutheran, Methodist, etc) there is no issue with recognizing Mary as the Mother of God. As the protestant churches evolved into evangelical and non-denominational churches, however, the distinction was lost. He cited Dr. Walter Martin's view as the most extreme, going so far as to dismiss God as the Eternal Father. His point was to demonstrate how once Mary is removed from the equation, it is all downhill.

How is Mrs. Don-o doing? Miss her so much!

8 posted on 01/24/2015 3:54:12 PM PST by NYer (Without justice - what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: don-o

Luther was about Christ, not worshipping Christ’s mother.


9 posted on 01/24/2015 3:56:52 PM PST by xone
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To: NYer
How is Mrs. Don-o doing? Miss her so much!

She is still quite ill. There are great challenges that we have to overcome to get her back to health. Keep praying.

10 posted on 01/24/2015 4:02:27 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: ifinnegan

The writer had better be glad Dr. Walter Martin is deceased and can’t defend himself.
I would love to see them in a one on one debate, just not anytime soon . . . .


11 posted on 01/24/2015 4:07:09 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: ifinnegan
Christ, for example, is the only redeemer

Yes, of course this is correct.

Only God could be a redeemer.

Mary is not God, though catholics by saying she is sinless strive to make her that.

12 posted on 01/24/2015 4:13:17 PM PST by what's up
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To: ifinnegan

The letters to the churches in Revelation are in fact a revelation.


13 posted on 01/24/2015 4:13:31 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: ifinnegan

It looks as though all you did was scan for a sentence you could disagree with. You didn’t actually read or reflect on the ARGUMENT, did you?

And aren’t you getting a little bored with the old “Catholics make Mary into God” crapola?


14 posted on 01/24/2015 4:14:47 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: NYer

Walter Martin said That?


15 posted on 01/24/2015 4:14:54 PM PST by Big Red Badger ( - William Diamonds Drum - can You Hear it G man?)
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To: ifinnegan

If you ever studied what this Mary promises for praying the rosary with scripture, you may question your faith when this lying mary points to the sameJesus that the Protestants have their faith in..

That is, unless protestants have a different Jesus not born on December 25, killed on good Friday and raised on easter like the roman catholic Jesus..


16 posted on 01/24/2015 4:21:40 PM PST by delchiante
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To: NYer

bkmk


17 posted on 01/24/2015 4:23:59 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: delchiante

I’m not sure I follow your post. What are you trying to say?


18 posted on 01/24/2015 4:26:36 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: NYer
Errr excuse me!

And that is when the trouble began. When groups of non-infallible men attempted to agree, the result ended up being the thousands of Protestant Catholic sects we see today.

still applies

God does have a sense of humor.

19 posted on 01/24/2015 4:27:50 PM PST by the_daug
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To: NYer
her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix...

Heresy .... the goddess Mary ...

20 posted on 01/24/2015 4:39:00 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
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