Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
trinity
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Benefactress
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Queen of Heaven
Mother of God
There was no punctuation in the Bible when written so a sentence that reads ‘I tell you, today you’ll be in paradise....’ is really ‘I tell you today, you’ll be in paradise....’
Otherwise, how do you reconcile this with the scripture that tells us the dead in Christ will rise upon His return? Surely there’s not ‘dead in Christ’ in the graves but the thief got to go to heaven..........right?
I always love how you protties know more and better about our Catholic faith than we do.
you are joking.
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
But those beliefs or items are not self-refuting.
The problem with “sola Scriptura” is not merely that it isn’t in Scripture. The problem is that because of what it asserts, it MUST be in Scripture in order for it to be true.
Since it is not in Scripture, it CAN’T be true.
And, since “sola Scriptura” CAN’T be true, none of the items on your list can be suspect merely because they aren’t in Scripture.
Why posit a false concept of what Sola Scriptura is?
There’s a huge disparity between what the RCC actually teaches and what is widely practiced.
Committing ones soul to Mary for their eternal salvation is worship and all the nonsense spewed adoring Mary for it, plain and simple.
There’s a huge disparity between what the RCC actually teaches and what is widely practiced.
Committing ones soul to Mary for their eternal salvation and all the nonsense spewed adoring Mary for it is worship, plain and simple.
It’s a sincere question. Because of Christ, we can approach the Father directly. Why would we ever go indirectly?
Of course I don’t even believe there is an indirect route to God. I think all of those prayers to Mary are a waste of time, little different than praying to Zeus. Based on the authority of Scripture I know Christ is the sole mediator between God and man and that the idea of praying through Mary is an invention of Rome.
The truth is we are never likely to agree on any of this. If memory serves, you are a priest and I don’t believe in the priesthood.
It's the only option they have.
Jesus clearly thought that Scripture alone was enough.
He quoted it at the enemy to counter the temptations, and constantly stated that *It is written....* and considered Scripture authoritative for determining truth claim.
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
John 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:32 They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?”
Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
The thread opens with: "The reason for this article is to determine.....", yet there is no link to any article. This is a vanity post with only one objective, to attack Catholics. It is replete with a total misunderstanding of the term "worship"; hence the ignorant attack.
Catholics sure have problems with Free Speech on Free Republic. There have been at least three calls to have this discussion pulled. Amazing.
In the OT passages you cite the authors did use the word in different contexts. When dealing with people they would translate the word as bowed down. When dealing with God they would translate as worshipped
In the NT passages involving Peter and John it was clearly understood what was happening was worship. This was not "adoration".
We should also note in these passages involving the Cherubim, the bronze serpent and others such as these were specific instructions from God delivered for a specific purpose.
He has never given us any such instructions regarding statues of Mary.
The catholic church has gone way beyond its claimed "adoration" of Mary in its pronouncements regarding Mary and this one of the reasons why Christians charge catholics with worshipping Mary. It is why we aren't to have graven images because the temptation to turn to them instead of Christ is too great.
We have this from Pope Leo XIII as an example. Please note the highlighted words.
We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. …..showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY
Notice the attributes given to Mary.
great Virgin
guardian of our peace
minister to us of heavenly grace
placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven
her patronage
catholic church has always...put ALL HER HOPE AND TRUST IN THE MOTHER OF GOD
Sure sounds like catholics have gone beyond adoration based on what Pope Leo XIII has noted here.
Mary has also been assigned the following by the catholic church:
Co-redemtrix
Queen of Heaven
Queen of the Universe
Advocate
Helper
Benefactress
Mediatrix
Mary Queen of the Apostles
Mother of the Church
Mother of Divine Grace
Refuge of Sinners
Mother most pure
Mother most chaste
Queen of Angels
Queen of Patriarchs
Queen of all Saints
Queen of Martyrs
Queen of Confessors
Queen of Peace Most taken from this website http://www.vatican.va/special/rosary/documents/litanie-lauretane_en.html
That's a pretty lengthy list for just adoration.
We could also discuss to whom we are to pray to, but that's another topic for another night.
Bottom line....catholics have gone way beyond adoration and into worship regarding Mary.
Be careful with that....Satan can also do some things we cannot explain.
If he can pull you away from Christ and have you attribute any miracle to someone other than Christ, he's won a victory.
I'll keep my prayers to Christ.
Have a Merry Christmas and I hope you remain a faithful Protestant, I truly believe you love Christ.
Christians are required to believe in Christ.
It’s dropped into a black hole.
Sorry Arthur....your Pope Leo XIII says differently.
We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. …..showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIIION DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY
YES! I agree. She is blessed among women! As noted by good Dr. Luke.
This type of false logic has been examined and refuted many times. Here is one example. More at source that will help you further.
OBJECTION: The doctrine of Sola Scriptura contradicts itself. For if the doctrine is true, then it ought itself to be stated in Holy Scripture. But in fact it is not.
REPLY: We are offered an argument of the following form:
(1) Sola Scriptura = “All true propositions are stated in Holy Scripture.”
(2) Sola Scriptura is not stated in Holy Scripture.
(3) Therefore, Sola Scriptura is not a true proposition.
But in fact, the argument should be of the form:
(1) Sola Scriptura = “All truths necessary to salvation are stated in Holy Scripture.”
(2) Sola Scriptura is not stated in Holy Scripture.
(3) Therefore, Sola Scriptura is not a truth necessary to salvation.
http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.kiefersolascriptura.html
Best to you
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