Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
Catholics keep telling us that the so called saints are already in heaven. But Daniel was told he would "rest" until the end of days.
Daniel 12:13 As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.
It doesn't say he'll be busy in heaven answering or conveying prayers.
OK, fair enough.
Here are your questions from post 1826: My question to you: Let us assume that the differences in interpretations were resolved, why wouldn't someone want to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church as founded by Christ (even if it was very difficult) to gain eternal life with God? I realize that I will get feedback that they are already saved, but what if they are wrong? In all humility, we need to do as Christ told and showed us.
First one which is: "Let us assume that the differences in interpretations were resolved, why wouldn't someone want to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church as founded by Christ (even if it was very difficult) to gain eternal life with God?"
I think I'm going to need more clarification here but I'll give a shot at it because I suspect that I know what you're referring to.
Because it's not through the teachings of a church that eternal life is attained. It's not through works of any kind, following the Law, partaking of sacraments, doing good works, having the good outweigh the bad.
The ONLY way sin is atoned for is through the shedding of blood, and that Christ did on the cross. There is nothing else which can put me in right standing before God.
Even if I lived a perfect life except for one sin, I would still be damned, just as Adam and Eve were. So following the teachings of a church will not make one right before God.
It's faith that's counted as righteousness in God's eyes, just as Abraham was counted righteous because he believed God.
Abraham's life was far from perfect, and yet he was considered righteous.
David was an adulterer and murderer and God still called him *a man after God's own heart*.
Salvation is a matter of relationship, not performance.
I realize that I will get feedback that they are already saved, but what if they are wrong?
I would find it unlikely that someone who accepts Christ as Scripture teaches would be lost. I do think that there are going to be many surprises when people pass on, but God does assure us that we can be saved now and be sure of being saved now.
And I don't see anywhere where being under the authority of the Catholic church is required.
I do not consider anything that cannot be found to be clearly and abundantly expressed in Scripture to be binding on the believer, and certainly not traditions and teachings which are either not well supported by Scripture or not found in it at all.
So addressing the topic of the thread, Catholic church teaching on Mary far exceeds anything that can be clearly and abundantly found in Scripture. So I would not be willing to put myself under an authority that teaches something as truth that God did not specifically address.
So if I'm wrong about not praying to Mary but rather only praying to God, I'm wrong. But I don't see that I am because I see nowhere where I am either commanded or permitted to pray to anyone but God.
And again, my question still stands as it is as valid to ask the Catholic as anyone else.
What if Catholic teachings that are not clearly spelled out in Scripture are wrong? Where does that leave the Catholic?
What if there is no purgatory that Catholics seem to count on to take care of their sins?
Just my $.02 but it is almost like they have been brain washed into believing anything Rome says even if it is lies. Why don’t they read the Bible to find out what the Source says instead of man? Reminds me of dem talking points. They parrot what they are told
Yet they tell us to that we actually eat and drink the flesh and blood of Christ at communion.
Amazing.
I have considered it and I used to believe it when I was a Catholic.
I don't consider that an option at all. Not any more.
I take with an ENORMOUS grain of salt ANYONE who claims to speak for Christ or God. Doesn't matter what the denomination.
We have Scripture and the Holy Spirit speaks to us through that.
They look so cute but one of them is giving you what my dad called *that old dog eye* when we argued....LOL
Except when it suits them to support their doctrines.
Just like a few verses in John 6 and Matthew 18.
Go figure...
Yes, you got what I was asking.
Mother of God is a pagan title noted by the prophets.
God has no mother, nor are there female beings in heaven, nor will there ever be. Read the scriptures instead of the insanity in the catechism.
Its sort of like teaching short bus kindergarten, isn’t it!
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You want him to have the only thing he’s gotten right in months removed?
So cruel! :o)
whoooaaaa there. Who is offering the prayers? Let's look.
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.
It's the four beasts and the 24 elders who have the bowls full of incense being offered to God. The incense are the prayers of the people. Those are NOT your so called saints offering those prayers. Nor are they the prayers of your so called saints. The Greek word used there is hagios which means "set apart for God" which every believer is.
Now there is much speculation about who those 24 elders are. Not ONE of them is that they are a group of some dedicated "saints" decided on by the Catholic Church. The best I have seen is to look at the "elders" of the chosen people of God. Let's look at that list of "elders".
1. Adam
2. Abel - though killed he was the chosen one.
3. Seth
4. Enosh
5. Cainan
6. Mahalalel
7. Jared
8. Enoch
9. Methuselah
10. Lamech
11. Noah
12. Shem
13. Arphaxad
14. Cainan
15. Shelah
16. Eber
17. Peleg
18. Reu
19. Serug
20. Nahor
21. Terah
22. Abraham
23. Isaac
24. Jacob
We find that List in Luke 3:
34 Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Stop with Jacob because he is the elder of all of the twelve tribes of Israel. All believers are grafted into that "vine" whose root is in God.
I have something better: Your Number!
But the 4 Creatures are not the 4 Beasts....
It looked to me like redleghunter cared quite a bit. He gave you your own churches statement on ""Cooperating with the graces of God". That's the problem with trying to defend the indefensible. That Catholic Church has published duplicitous statements that cause all kinds of problems for those trying to defend her. You simply got caught in that web of deceit of the Catholic Church.
At least there is a logical path to that theory.
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See post 1872
Not even close. There is no way a pagan infiltrated conglomerate like the Catholic Church speaks for God.
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