Posted on 10/03/2014 2:33:43 PM PDT by NYer
No I cannot. So what? Am I in a police station?
Of course there is, and it is logical. Christ teaches:
I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. [...] the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you (John 14:16,26)This is the nature of Divine Inspiration: it abides with the Holy Catholic Church forever. Caninicity, on the other hand, has a precise definition; one of the criteria of canonicity is its historical anchor, which makes canonical material limited to the Temple Judaism in the Old Testament case.
Can God "inspire" believers to write great works, hymns, works of art? Sure, but that is a different kind of inspiration
I was not talking of artistic inspiration and neither was St. Paul. The passage in focus speaks of sacred texts, not artistry.
Of course I did not effectively impeach him for bias. To do that I would actually have to read his book and see how he treats the issue of the pre-Nicaean fathers making references to the Deuterocanonical books of the Septuagint. I would also look to understand how the esteemed professor explains the motivation of the “4-5th Century Christians” to write a voluminous historical work on the subject of the struggle of the Maccabees, culminating in heroic refusal to eat pork. Or how the touching epic of Tobit profits specifically Christianity. However, it was your job, not mine. You brought up an assertion that is absurd on its face and the passage you quoted as damning to Roman Catholicism is cooly mentioned in the Catholic Encyclopedia, because of course it does not prove anything, while the writings of the Early Father prove the opposite.
The authority of the Holy Catholic Church is institutional and God given, and is recorded in the Scripture. Yes, we also had bad popes.
Rom 10:8-10 (8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.So we do confess Jesus as Lord, but no such confession means anything if we do not also believe in our heart in the resurrection of Jesus. So your caricature is just that, a shallow misrepresentation of what Protestant faith believes, preaches and practices, no easy formulas, but a heart conviction of the Gospel as true, confirmed by a willingness to publicly acknowledge Jesus as our Savior and the Lord of our lives.
and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel.'
Notice the second him? That is from a masculine only word.
Now for the first he.
הוּא is masculine and הִיא is feminine. Guess which one is used in Genesis 3:15? Yep!! ה֚וּא
Mary being feminine is not included.
The Greek word does not mean "to your mind" as you seem to be implying. The word means "bring to your remembrance. Are you trying to tell us that your "majesterum" was there with Jesus that they would remember?
Hey..you were the one who asserted:
That's why I replied,
No, you cannot what? Admit that Trent attached the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonicals to the Divinely-inspired Old Testament canon and that is why you defend them? Or, no, you cannot identify what Apocryphal books were included in the Septuagint in Paul's day and, therefore, you cannot say with any surety Paul meant any of them were part of sacred inspired Scripture ?
Let's not forget that it was your contention that Paul's use of the phrase "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God" in his letter to Timothy meant the Septuagint - and all the books that were part of it. Seeing as you aren't under oath and giving a deposition, I don't see how asking you to clarify yourself is a negative request. If you can't defend your statement or you want to reword or retract it, by all means please do so.
The post to which I think you are responding, #766, is reproduced here:
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The codices of the LXX that have the deuterocanonicals were the not the immediate product of the Jewish magisterium, but were apparently the result of 4th-5th Century Christian scholarship. See Roger Beckwith here (also see his book, “The Old Testament Canon of the New Testament Church: and its Background in Early Judaism”):
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/evangel/04-1_012.pdf
So Timothy’s OT was, best we know, absent the deuterocanonicals, and your claim for their inspiration cannot be substantiated.
Peace,
SR
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So I need some clarification here. Because you didn’t spell it out, I am assuming the “absurd on it’s face” assertion to which you refer is that Timothy’s OT didn’t have the deuterocanonicals, therefore your argument for their inspiration is unsubstantiated. Am I understanding you correctly in this? Or were you referring to some other assertion?
Because if you say you have not impeached Beckwith, how can his conclusion be regarded as facially absurd? If Beckwith’s testimony stands, so does the assertion. Facial absurdity would be something like, “the moon is made of green cheese.” We know too much to accept that as even a remote possibility. But the forgoing assertion about Timothy’s OT is at least as plausible as yours, and much more plausible than yours if you fail to dislogdge Beckwith.
Now I say all of this in the uncertainty that I’ve even understood you. Nevertheless, this is my best understanding of what you were trying to say. Please feel free to add the necessary specifics so I can give a less befuddled response on the next go-around. :)
Peace,
SR
dislogdge => dislodge, oops ...
And...
a LOT of people seem to think that verse means someTHING else!
Words mean something.
For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
.
.
.
Anything else you do not understand?
Yes...
WHY?
Ecclesiastes 9:1-6
1 But all this I laid to heart, examining it all, how the righteous and the wise and their deeds are in the hand of God. Whether it is love or hate, man does not know; both are before him.
2 It is the same for all, since the same event happens
to the righteous and the wicked,
to the good and the evil,
to the clean and the unclean,
to him who sacrifices and him who does not sacrifice.
As the good one is, so is the sinner, and
he who swears is as he who shuns an oath.
3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
Then when you get to reply #926, you may want to re-think your statement:
The point remains that however you render it, Mary is right there in the context in which the crushing occurs.
No; a courtroom.
Certain charges have been leveled; and they MUST be dealt with.
Wait, wait, WAIT!!!
Where does Mary fit in here?
Yeah, the way ROME has managed to INSERT itself into 'scripture' is quite a sight to behold.
Solomon; the wisest man on earth; SURELY (sorry...) trumps the Great Minds of the church based in Rome.
“Snicker”
Now *there’s* a reasoned, rational reply, just dripping with Christian charity.
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