Posted on 09/23/2014 12:58:09 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
There is only one Day Of The Lord. Can you provide any scripture for two comings (returns) of the Messiah?
He also conveniently LEFT OUT parts of the passage from I Thessalonians 4:13-18. Particularly:
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
AMEN.
That is the reality, that we Christians are going to have to suffer for the Lord. As the Lord suffered so will we.
When and where did the church become the 'Bride'???
I don`t know why every one is arguing about it now, why not wait and watch the movie and then we will know the truth.
I watched the first one just recently on TBN. Imagine my surprise that the film got just one star. /s
Perhaps, perhaps not.
I’m no theologian, but it seems to me that, say premillennial Rapture most closely follws the literal meaning of the words of the Bible (I make due allowance for metaphors, and figurative language in the text).
But allegorizing the whole message into something else, well where do you stop? What do you get?
You’d get the meaning of the US Constitution as it currrently exists in modern political life. Nothing.
Yes, but it’s a chance to reach out and save souls; I freely admit that it would flake me out, but since I don’t doubt what I’m seeing right in front of my face, I would gladly take up the challenge to save souls from Hell. Wouldn’t you?
If we have repented and asked Jesus in to our life, thanking Him for dying on the cross for our sins, we will not be left behind.
If we are left behind it`s only because we failed to do the above
We cant save souls from hell in our own power, if we are left behind it`s clear we have been working on our own power instead of God`s power.
On our own power we are just making noise, I have done this myself...
We are betrothed to Jesus at time of salvation.
2 Corinthians 11:2
For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you pas a pure virgin to Christ.
Revelation 19:7–9
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”
pas = as
Exactly...We are betrothed...The wedding takes place, in heaven...Looking at the surrounding verses, one can see that the wedding takes place during the Great Tribulation...
This is the church that went to meet the Lord in the air...They don't go off just to meet up with the Lord and return to the earth for the 2nd coming...They are caught up to the wedding...
After the wedding the church THEN returns with the Lord to clean up the earth and set up his Kingdom, on the earth...
In my experience, you can show them till you are blue in the face - You can prove it till the cows come home... The very next thread, the very same people will be right back saying the rapture is a silly novelty of Darby.
Just sayin'
The first thing that will happen is Jesus will call believers up and we will meet him in the air as foretold in I Thessalonians 4.
This is part of God's promise of grace. Jesus came the first time to die on a Christ and rose the 3rd day to save us from God's righteous and holy wrath. It is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. In fact, God warned the Jews not to take too much comfort in the day of the Lord.
Amos 5:18-20 “ Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?”
If we Christians are to be left behind to endure God's wrath on the day of the Lord, this would seem quite inconsistent with what I Thessalonians 4:15-18 says “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Why would we comfort each other with the fact that we are to endure seven years of God's wrath poured out upon the earth?
Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
I Thessalonians 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” The wrath to come seems to be a reference to the tribulation, then in chapter 4:15-18 he explains how this will take place with the verses already looked at.
Another verse to consider is I Corinthians 15:51-53 “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
The events of Jesus second coming in judgment (splitting the mount of olives etc.) do not happen in the twinkling of an eye, but the rapture certainly could.
The other consistency problem is where are the saints at the time of Jesus’s coming in judgment?
If they are on earth and meet him in the air (I Thessalonians 4), they cannot already be in heaven as described in Revelation 19:14-16 “And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.”
So in conclusion to form as literal as possible and consistent interpretation I conclude we are dealing with two events generally called the rapture, then the tribulation, and the 2nd coming; in that order.
Sorry for such a long response, this is a subject people can and do write thick book ons. To address another point that was raised by the article. This is not to discount the fact that Christians should be prepared to endure hardships. In fact the new-testment time and again lets us know that we will endure hardships of the world, and persecution. Even today for most of our brothers and sisters in Christ are well aware of this fact. Americans are the blessed exception and our time will come soon enough.
I think a clear line has to be drawn between enduring hardships and God's wrath. Our heavenly father may chasten his children, he makes no guarantee to protect us from the consequences of our sin; but he will not pour out his wrath on us for Jesus already took it on the cross.
How could it mean anything else?
Matthew 9:15 “And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.”
You can find this anology also in Mark 2 and Luke 5.
John 3:27-30 “John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Ephesians 5:23 “For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.”
...caught up....wedding in heaven...and all who come to Christ during 7 years of great Tribulation miss wedding...huh? Pre-trib is full of holes that do not line up with what scripture tells us.
Great tribulation with great persecution against church (be living close to Lord prior before this time comes). At end of those 7 years the Lord Jesus appears in the air for ALL to see with the saints of heaven...they receive resurrected bodies...then those in Christ still on earth are caught up to the Lord in the air and also receive new bodies.
Down the Lord comes to Jerusalem with us His elect, His bride to be. Satan and demons bound 1000 years, new heavenly Jerusalem is joined to earthly Jerusalem.
Some believe the marriage supper will happen during this 1000 years but that would go against ALL becoming the bride of Christ and therefore must be after the 1000 years. First all wicked must cast into the lake of fire, then all who have their names in the Lamb’s book of life will be present for marriage supper.
The Elect does not necessarily refer to Christians. In the Old Testament the Jews are called the elect on several occasions, for example. Isaiah 45:4 “For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”
Through out history the nation of Israel is at the center of God's plan. Time and time again in the old testament we see a pattern repeated God blesses Israel, Israel turns their back on God, God judges Israel, and Israel turns back to God and the cycle repeats. The time of Jacobs trouble is God's end to this cycle. He will give the devil a free hand and let his judgment poor out on the world for their wickedness. As always God saves a remnanment, the 144,000 who are sealed (elect). The purpose of the tribulation is to turn the hearts of Israel to her Messiah and then he will restore them permanently to a place of blessing.
Ezekiel 39 describes the outcome v22-26 “So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.”
Can’t be wedding feast till the Lord’s house (banquet hall) is full, then the doors are shut, Luke 14. All belonging to Christ must be present at wedding. Many come to the Lord during 7 years of tribulation, most Jews are still without Christ, they become jealous seeing gentile believers under God’s hand during tribulation.
1 Thess 4 ... comfort (encourage) one another that the Lord is coming. These scriptures fit perfectly with Great Tribulation and then the one and only return of the Lord and us being caught up with Him on His way down.
There will be two groups of those who profess Jesus as Lord during these 7 years. Those who already know living by faith in Lord, connected to Him, abiding in Him and bearing fruit Jn 15, and then those who were careless in their relationship with God and will become offended and fall away during tribulation...Matt 24. Some believe second group were never saved just religious people calling themselves Christians, I think that is most likely the case. We must have our lamps full of Spirit of God before then for there won’t be time to play catch up.
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