Posted on 09/23/2014 12:58:09 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Who are all these believers in the great tribulation (Jacob’s trouble) if they have all been removed from earth?
Pre-trib rapture would mean Jesus returns a second time, yet there is no scripture that says Jesus returns more than once.
i agree. God doesn’t pull his people out of harms way, ever. we are the leaven that keeps the message here while we are here. All over the world Christians are slaughtered. we here in america invent the escape part.
I agree that the secret rapture is nonsense.
The entire world will see the first resurrection, at the last trump, and no one would want to be left behind, as that is when the Wrath of Yehova’s bowl judgments begin.
Joshua Ryan Butler has some really bizarre ideas!
He needs to buy a Bible to read.
I’m a little confused. Haven’t there already been several “Left Behind” movies?
'Tis a reboot.
>> “Good luck getting this little bit of common sense through the dense noggin of any idiot religious fruitcake.” <<
.
But it’s not common sense; its insanity.
He needs to read a Bible. He is the fruitcake for sure.
They’re like Atlas Shrugged— poorly written novels that make even worse movies.
I actually tried to read them 2 or 3 years ago. I read the first paragraph, and thought "It was a dark and stormy night....". Dire stuff.
I persevered, but stalled out about halfway through the first novel, as our intrepid hero is visiting the First Generic Evangelical Church of Mt. Prospect, IL.
>> “After this point, the Church is not mentioned on earth during the book of Revelation” <<
.
Not so!
The tribulation of Yehova’s saints by Satan is right there to read about, until the last trump, the end of the trib, when the elect are resurrected. Then the wrath of Yehova begins, after Satan’s last hurrah, the trib, is over.
My take? What take would that be? I responded to the common claim that belief in the "rapture" is a late 19th century novelty of Darby, which it clearly is not.
I suggest you do some "reading" into what I've written on this thread before jumping to awkward, incorrect conclusions.
There are a billion plus so being taught that there is no such thing as the “rapture” when clearly it’s written in scripture, has been discussed by several early church fathers, and so is not merely a late 19th century novelty attributable to Darby. Does this bother you? I suspect not, since you appear to be among their number.
Whatever you do, don't read the red letter stuff. It'll mess up the whole context of the other stuff.
Everything considered, it is safer to not believe in the rapture theory and put on the full armor of God on as we are instructed to do anyways, just in case they are wrong.
>> “My take? What take would that be? I responded to the common claim that belief in the “rapture” is a late 19th century novelty of Darby, which it clearly is not.” <<
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The rapture is not “pre-trib!
The pre-trib rapture belongs to Darby and Satan. The first and only resurrection unto life is at the end of Satan’s trib.
Scares you, huh?
I agree with you, belief in the “rapture” is NOT a late 19th century innovation. Belief in a secret pre-trib, or mid-trib rapture, yes, but not the rapture per se.
Darby did not claim his secret pretrib rapture belief came from the ante-Nicene Fathers, re: the quotes in your post, it seems obvious enough to me that the Irvingites of England, and the Scottish lass McDonald, both concurrent with Darby, did have had much to do with the doctrine he formulated.
I think we both agree that the “rapture IS set forth in plain language, 1 Thess. 4, as a “catching up” to meet Christ in the air at his coming. We both believe there will be a rapture, it is whether it is secret, and whether it occurs before, in the middle, at the end of the trib, the issue we disagree on.
My take? What take would that be? I responded to the common claim that belief in the "rapture" is a late 19th century novelty of Darby, which it clearly is not.
No, you're right. It's an early 19th century novelty of Darby.
On what the Ante-Nicene Fathers believed on this issue, here’s something from Robert Gundry, professor of theology in California. He says: “Irenaeus, who claims to hold that which was handed down from the apostles, was as forthright a posttribulationist as could be found.” He quotes Irenaeus: “And they [the ten kings] shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight.” Against Heresies, 5,26,1.
He has many more quotes from the Fathers, Cyprian among them, saying basically the same thing, he concludes:
“We can conclude from the survey of Ante-Nicene writings that the early church was explicitly posttribulational. We discover not even a passing reference to, much less a refutation of, any who believed otherwise. Every Ante-Nicene writer who touches in any detail upon the tribulation, resurrection, rapture, or second coming displays posttribulation.”
Gundry also brings premillennial into this, noting that Irenaeus, etc., were also premillennial (Chiliast), but that is not at issue here between us.
Not saying Gundry is the last word on the subject, just saying his conclusions matches what I see in the Fathers.
Because his uncle is Francis Ford Coppola.
Lots of other actors who were selected at auditions have later been passed aside only to have their roles given to Cage. Many are fairly bitter about it.
Being taken to be with the Lord is a promotion, not a demotion.
WRONG! The word translated "taken" does NOT mean killed. The Greek word is paralambanó which means I take from, receive from, or: I take to, receive (apparently not used of money), admit, acknowledge; I take with me. [http://biblehub.com/greek/3880.htm]
No way can that be made to mean kill. As can be seen by the real meaning would fit with Christ taking us with Him.
As an example the word is used in Matthew 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Let's see the writer of the article insert "kill" into that verse.
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