Posted on 09/23/2014 6:50:30 AM PDT by Rashputin
>> “AND, I have such Bible experts as Dr. Tim LaHay, Dr. David Jeremiah, Dr. Charles Stanley, Hal Lindsey, Dr. Mark Hitchcock...” <<
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If those pre-trib dispys are your “experts,” its no wonder that you are adrift.
They are Bible morphers, not Bible readers. They read only what they want it to say, just like the catholics do.
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>> “I have read all of 1 Corinthians and it does not say that Jesus comes twice. It simply says that there are 3 resurrections. Jesus alone is one. Then there are 2 other resurrections of those in the kingdom.” <<
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No, that is not even close to what it says.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of his elect, at the last trump, the beginning of his millennial reign. The rest are not resurrected until the end of the 1000 year reign, at the resurrection unto judgment.
Those in the second resurrection are not of his kingdom.
Revelation 20 makes it clear that there is a 1000 year span between the two. You apparently misread John’s statement that those resurrected to judgment wait 1000 years after the last trump, which is the first resurrection.
What Paul is pointing out to the Corinthians, and the Thessalonians, is that there is no rapture before Satan’s 3.5 year tribulation. The “Man of Sin” must be revealed first!
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Oh lord, another know it all. Another who has all the answers and everyone else, no matter whom, is wrong. Go away turtle. I have no time for you and your silly off the wall thinking and beliefs. We’re done here.
The Bible has the answers, and that is where your “experts” go emotional, rather than factual.
If you're done with the plain words of the Bible, then we are probably done, as you say.
But if you love the word, Paul clearly shows why there can be no pre-trib rapture. As he told the Thessalonians, the “man of sin” must come first, and stand on the “holy place.”
Yeshua and his apostles also all say that no one will be removed from the Earth until the end of the age, which is at the end of the trib.
Those that follow his commandments will be protected through the trib, as he stated in Revelation, in the letter to the Church at Philadelphia, but no one will be removed until all the elect are removed, at the end of the age.
Sorry chuckles, that was just a “courtesy ping.”
Yes it does in that order. New American Standard Version.
From BibleGate
The Order of Resurrection
(all of 1 Corinthians is about resurrection)
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits,
[Christ rose first]
after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
[Pretty self explanatory but the next to rise from the dead are those who are Christ’s at His return as explained in Revelation 20, those who died during the tribulation—only one return—there are NEVER, NEVER two returns EVER.]
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
[Third resurrection or second of those belonging to Christ after death is thrown into Hades with Satan]
Seems pretty obvious to me. I’m just reading what it says.
So there are only believers during Christ’s reign? What about Revelation 20:3,7,8,9 & 10 when Satan is released for a short time?
Any other Old Testament references to that?
Here is what I read...
Revelation 19 is the Return, the beast and false prophet go into the lake of fire, all those with the mark are killed.
Revelation 20 Satan is bound and then the first resurrection of those who were beheaded or died for their unwillingness to worship Satan. They reign with the Messiah for the 1000 years Satan is chained.
All other people are resurrected at the last trumpet when those whose names are written in the book of life will live with God for eternity in the new heaven/earth.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
>> “So there are only believers during Christ’s reign?” <<
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Where do you get that idea?
All of the unbelievers, and psuedo-believers that didn’t worship the beast will be there.
NATO’s war machine will of course perish during the battle, as will all who took the mark.
The first resurrection is all of Yeshua’s Bride (all of the true believers, dead or alive at the last trump) It’s not just those that were beheaded.
All of the Bride returns on the day of Tabernacles to reign with him. Remember also that Revelation 20 is an overview of events that were all previously mentioned earlier in Revelation.
The position of the sun is evident in Enoch’s calendar for those who celebrate passover in March as they claim the year begins before the official equinox date on the pope gregory calendar..
So they tend to celebrate passover in pope gregory march.
The sun and the ‘equinox’ is used as a marker for those who celebrated passover in pope grerory april as it was the first full moon time after the equinox on the pope gregory calendar.
The sun is used in all timekeeping.. some use it exclusively, like the pope gregory calendar.
Israel didn’t have ears of any barley harvest to look for in the wilderness but scripture, Numbers at least, detailed that they held the feast of passover in the wilderness.
So without those ears of barley, they still knew when the new year began.. does anybody who doesn’t think the sun has no role in telling time have an explanation for that?
It really is a clock in the sky.. His timekeeping.. He taught Moses the proper way to tell time.. that would differentiate them from all others..
The sticky wicket for people is there were at least three different passover observances, and probably more depending on their sources.
Passovers were held In march, in april and in may in different sects of people who believe in the Holy Scriptures.. they all can’t be right..
Folks who celebrated Passover in March have already had their yom Kippur.
Those who celebrated Passover in April are awaiting their yom Kippur.
And those who celebrated in May have another month.. (although those who celebrated in May probably were celebratin May because they didn’t observe it in April and the one in May is considered the 2nd passover in Israel this year)
And that 2nd passover in Israel was the only one where the sun was in Aries..
If somebody doesn’t like the fact that the sun travels through the stars and those stars have some interesting parallels to Scripture, take it up with Him who created it all..
I believe His word.. those lights in the sky are for our use.. they are for signs, and for appointed times (seasons in the english-moed in the Hebrew), days and years..
Nothing up there is an accident..
But the smart phones have people looking down today instead of up..
Why can you not understand that the position of the sun is never the same for any two Passovers?
Passover is controlled by the Aviv Moon, and nothing else.
Passover is not celebrated in “March” ever!
Passover is celebrated in the Biblical month of the Aviv Barley, the first Biblical month, which changes constantly, always has and always will.
You are confusing Yehova’s Passover with the sun god worshipers false Passover. None of Yehova’s events occur on days of the sun god’s calendar.
Where was the barley in the wilderness?
Barley is a common wheat grass in the near east.
So they ate barley in the wilderness and not manna?
Are you completely devoid of knowledge of the word of God?
The barley is necessary for the celebration of “First Fruits.”
That is why it defines the beginning of the year.
Your attachment to all things pagan is confounding your understanding of God’s word.
This literally must be true - At the end of Adar, at the new moon, the condition of the barley is assessed. If the barley is declared 'aviv', Passover and First Fruits are two weeks away. If the barley is not 'aviv' at that time, it will not be in a condition to be parched at the time of the First Fruits offering. If the barley is not 'aviv', the month of Adar II is declared instead, pushing the whole calendar forward 29(?) days, at which time the barley will assuredly be near ripe.
What is interesting is what to do with Purim - IIRC. Purim is to be celebrated in Adar Bet if it exists, which suggests that the Jews had formalized their calendar away from Torah fairly early on, for they would have passed Purim if they waited for the new moon to determine the barley and declare Adar Bet accordingly... Go figger.
I asked about what crop was grown in the wilderness that they could possibly determine a beginning of the year and you gave us wheatgrass.
It kind of makes manna from heaven seem irrelevant with your explanation as if they had all that wheatgrass to eat, why the manna?
My explanation at least gives credence to biblical truth to scriptures like Genesis 1:14 and Psalm 8:3
You mention first fruits, I am interested in this.. I hope you can enlighten me.
First fruits, according to the calendar given to us throughout Scripture was celebrated on the 16th of the first month of the year.
The day after the High Sabbath of 15th of the first month as described in Leviticus and confirmed in the very death, burial and resurrection of the Messiah of Israel (3 days)
If you observed passover in April, then I am assuming that Passover was on a pope gregory Moon day, the 14th day of April (coincidence that it occurred on the 14th day just as it stated in Leviticus)?
If you didn’t, I would be interested to learn when you observed it.
According to Leviticus, that is a preparation day, as there is needed a preparation day before the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread.
According to our Heavenly Father’s calendar, the 14th day of every month is a preparation day, but that is for another post..
That next day, a pope gregory tiw’s day this year would have been the Feast of unleavened Bread, again a coincidence, but on the 15th day of April that matches the 15th day from the ‘New Moon’ in Leviticus, which was seen around the world on April 1st.
So Leviticus and Gregorian April matched in the ‘numbered dates’ this year if you followed the stated passover date on the pope gregory calendar I see.it makes it easy to make the comparison.
Leviticus then states that the Feast of First fruits would be celebrated the day after the Sabbath, where the priest would present the First Fruits.
According to our Heavenly Father’s calendar that day is the 16th day of His month and always the third day, the day after the 15th. This year, that was a pope Gregory Woden’s day, April 16th.
Is that when the feast of first fruits was observed this year? Or was it observed after the pope appointed Sabbath this year, the 20th day of April?
I am curious because if April 20 was the feast of first fruits, it would mean that Torah really isn’t being followed exclusively.. It means the pope Gregory calendar is the main calendar in use and Israel tries to squeeze these Feasts in around the world’s calendar.
Instead of death, burial, ressurection on the 14th, 15th, 16th like it is detailed in Torah and the New Testament, this year it would he death on the 14th, rested in the tomb on the 15th, and raised on the 6th day after Passover, a pope gregory ‘sun’s day.
That really messes a lot of the 3rd day, He rose, verses..
maybe it means believers can only truly observe the resurrection when passover is on a pope Gregory Friya goddess day because if they don’t, Torah gets really confusing.
And this would certainly explain why all those big days in Leiticus 23 come second and can be postponed or moved if they conflict with the pope appointed Sabbath day in modern day religion.
Considering the New Testament story of the Messiah being killed, buried and raised the third day as ‘First Fruits’, couldn’t be observed this year.
That is if April 20 was the feast of first fruits this past April.
If one observed the feast of first fruits on woden’s day, April 16th, then that would make ‘the first day of the week’ this year a Woden’s day and not a Sunday like Christendom (and Judaism) observe it each and every year..
Now, you can clam biblical wisdom and knowledge- but that is a whole lot of unscriptural stuff going on in both judiasm and christianity if one is truly honest..
And one wont see or even think about this while they are a slave to the world..
But I have been freed from the conformity of the world so I don’t accept the pope as the arbiter of time..
Observe His calendar in Scripture for awhile and you too will see how sola scriptura, even for Israel, is really sola popa..
My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge Hosea 4:6
Google ‘when is passover 2020’.. or pick any year...
Somebody has a really good farmers almanac because they already have it set..
So, if somebody can calculate that far out so calendars can be printed, how on earth can the crop be the determining factor?
Answer- it isn’t.. it is based on the sun and the moon, at least that is why people can know, with confidence, months before somebody gets out there to assess the harvest..
Or those calendar kiosks in the malls during Gregorian December are really blessed...
Let me add roamer, it would not shock me if abib or Aviv occurs before what the world calls the first day of spring, especially in a climate like Israel.
And it may be a hot topic in Israel, I don’t know.
In america, a least on the pope gregory calendar, it is set and settled..
The pope gregory calendar has decided, either intentionally or unintentionally, that there is no way abib will be occurring before the spring equinox.
It is after all partly how easter is determined on the same calendar: The first Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox..
That too is known years in advance..
All calculated..and that may not be a good thing..
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