Posted on 09/13/2014 10:57:00 AM PDT by Salvation
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sola gratia! Grace alone -- but a grace we have to co-operate with. Thinking that all one has to do is pray the "Sinner's Prayer" once to be saved is wrong. Thinking that all one has to do is be a "good person" to be saved is wrong. It takes more than simply knowing Jesus is the Messiah to be saved; even the Evil One knows Who Christ is.
The Bible and the Catholic Church don't separate the "works of faith," preceded and caused by grace, from salvation (see relevant Scripture below) You can have all the faith in the world, enough to move mountains, but if you don't have charity, you are nothing:
The Catholic Church and Her Bible condemn the idea that one can work his way to Heaven on his own merit or that God "owes" a person for doing the right things.
The pastor, almost completely misunderstanding Catholicism but who has an entire ministry devoted to "saving Catholics", responded in part by saying:
Well, "pastor," that's what Catholics have been saying all along!
|
|
As to "personal relationship with Jesus, " think of the great Saints -- everyone from Thérèse de Lisieux to St. Francis -- are these people not "born again" in the Protestant sense of "having a deep relationship with Christ" while still remaining 100% believers in traditional Catholic doctrine? Read about the life of St. Patrick and then talk to me about a "personal relationship" with Jesus that some Protestants think Catholics just don't understand.
What of our holy martyrs like Maximilian Kolbe or Nikolaus Gross, murdered by Nazis because of the virtue compelled by their Catholic faith? What about Joan of Arc, martyred for her refusal to deny the divine origins of the voices that led her to defeat the English? If you want "personal relationship with Jesus," read the writings of St. Teresa of Avila or St. John of the Cross!
Another question Catholics often hear is, "Have you been saved?" Catholics, though, don't see eternal salvation as a one-time event that one can pinpoint and relate to others by saying, for example, "I was saved at 5:30 pm on 23 October 1988 when I got on my knees and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior." We think of salvation, ultimately, as a process that is begun with faith and Baptism (or just Baptism in the case of infants) and is then "worked out" (Phillipians 2:12) as we endeavor to "put on Christ." Additionally, we don't see salvation as something that can't be lost (2 Peter 2:20-21). Even St. Paul himself, the one who did more than anyone else to spread the Gospel, wasn't sure of his own salvation. He wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Who are we to be more "sure of our salvation" than the Apostle Paul?
Most Catholics, of course, are able to speak of specific events such as the first time they truly "got it" that Jesus is Lord or that the Church and its Scriptures are true; many are able to tell specific stories of experiences of the Holy Spirit. Many have wonderful stories of healings, consolation, and miracles. But to speak of "having been saved," in the past tense, is something we tend not to do unless we are speaking about our Baptism, at which time we were first justified. We speak, instead, of "being saved," in the present tense, as we obey Him after Baptism and endeavor to keep accepting the gift of salvation which we could never earn on our own.
Many Protestants tend to see salvation in legal terms: "I believe, therefore, I am saved because that is God's promise to me. As long as I believe, I can't lose my salvation because the terms of the contract are that I simply believe and I will be saved." Catholics see salvation more in terms of kinship, our adoption into God's very family, our becoming, literally, true children of God and inheriting Christ's sonship through Jesus' sacrifice. We see "working out our salvation" as those things we, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are called to do as children of God, in the same way that a child honors an earthly parent -- and we see God's gift of eternal salvation to us as an inheritance from our Father rather than a "pay-off" for having fulfilled a "contract" by a simple assertion of faith. And as a father can "disinherit" a child if that child no longer treats him as father and freely walks away from his inheritance, so our Father in Heaven can "disinherit" those who don't treat Him as Father (Romans 11:22; Galatians 5:4; Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 3:17-18). For more in-depth information, read the transcript of this debate on "justification" between Scott Hahn, Catholic and former Presbyterian minister, and Dr. Robert Knudson of Westminster Seminary.
So, here's how a Catholic would answer the standard questions from Protestants:
Q. |
Have you been "born again"? |
A. |
Yes, when we are baptized, we are "born again of water and Spirit" (John 3). |
Q. |
Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? |
A. |
Some Catholics are good Catholics and have a deep personal relationship with Jesus by trusting in Him and receiving His Sacraments. Other Catholics are mere "cultural Catholics" who call themselves "Catholic" because they were baptized once, but don't believe what Christ's Church teaches or don't have the will to practice what His Church commands. Such Catholics are "dead members" of the Church and must be restored by faith and the Sacraments. |
Q. |
Have you been "saved"? |
A. |
Those Catholics who have faith and obey the will of the Father are being saved, by the grace of Christ alone. Catholics who don't have faith and don't obey the will of the Father will not be saved unless they repent and begin to have faith and keep the commandments. |
Q. |
If you were to die tonight, do you know for an absolute certainty that you would go to Heaven? |
A. |
No more than St. Paul did when he wrote to the people of Corinth. But we do have the assuredness of knowing that God keeps His promises, that He is good and merciful and just, and that He so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son so we might not perish but have everlasting life if we believe, repent, obey, and trust in Jesus. |
Q. |
By what means are we saved? |
A. |
By the grace of Christ Whose Blood was poured out for us at Calvary. This Sacrifice is the only means of salvation; by Christ and Christ alone may a man be saved. There is no other way to the Father. |
Q. |
Why was His Sacrifice necessary? Why did He have to die? |
A. |
God is infinite Justice and Perfection. Because He is infinite, our sins offend Him infinitely. There is such a chasm between God in His vast perfection and us in our creaturely weakness that nothing we could do could possibly assuage Him for our offenses. But as much as we deserve death, He loves us still and wants us with Him for eternity. In order to restore His honor and maintain the perfection of His justice, there had to be an infinite Sacrifce of appeasement. So, God Himself took on flesh by the Holy Ghost and the Virgin Mary and became man, not only to teach us with His words, but to save us with His Blood. Only God Himself could save us from the effects of our offending Him because we are so imperfect and weak. |
Q. |
What must we do to accept the fruits of this Sacrifice and be saved? |
A. |
In three words, "Believe, repent, and obey." We must: · believe and trust in Christ (John 3:16); · repent and be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost for the remission of sins (Matthew 28:19, John 3:3-5, Acts 2:38); · obey the will of the Father and keep the commandments (Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:16-19); · eat the Body of Christ (John 6:51-69) -- but not unworthily, and only after discerning the Lord's Body lest we eat damnation onto ourselves (I Corinthians 11:23-30); · judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:28-31) and, when we fall, confess our sins to those to whom Christ has given the authority to forgive sins in His Name, and to obey that authority when it comes to what is bound and loosed (Matthew 9:5-8, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:18); · love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbors as ourselves (Mark 12:30-31). |
1 Samuel 2:30
Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 19:16-19
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 4:14-19
The sower sows the word. And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown; when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word which is sown in them. And these in like manner are the ones sown upon rocky ground, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; and they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones sown among thorns; they are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world, and the delight in riches, and the desire for other things, enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
John 15:6
If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 3:1-7
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him." In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit [Baptism]. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.' [This entire chapter is about baptizing, John the Baptist, "ceremonial washing", etc.]
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Romans 2:6
God will render to every man according to his WORKS.
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. [Note that the verbs here are in the past tense; Paul is undoubtedly referring to those who've died in a state of grace and whose justification and santification have been completed. And don't read this verse out of context of the one that came 12 verses before it -- Romans 8:17, which says that our glorification depends on our suffering along with Christ, and Matthew 22:14 that says "For many are called, but few are chosen." Being "called" doesn't mean automatic justification.]
Romans 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 11:17-23
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again. [In other words, you're "grafted in," a part of the New Covenant -- but don't brag because you can be cut off]
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind [It doesn't say "unless these people have had the experiences of "feeling saved" or having been born again.]
1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. [Even Paul wasn't sure of his own salvation!]
I Corinthians 10:8-12
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. [NIV: "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!"]
I Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. [Charity is greater than Faith!]
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which WORKETH BY LOVE.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For BY grace are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Phillipians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Colossians 1:23-24
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of [lacking in] the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church. [the NKJV and the NIV translate this last part accurately as: "and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church."]
1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your WORK OF FAITH, and LABOUR OF LOVE, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the WORK OF FAITH with power:
1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. [RSV: "...worse than an unbeliever." What is being said here is that "believing" is not enough!]
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-29
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
2 Peter 2:20-21
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [the Greek word for knowledge here is epignosei, which means a knowledge from experience, not just intellectual knowledge, which would be oida. In other words, the people being talked about here "knew Christ", they had a "personal encounter with Christ" and had the experience of "getting saved"; they didn't just simply "know of Him."]
2 Peter 3:17-18
...beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever.
1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. [in other words, it is possible not continue in the Father and the Son; it is possible to fall away]
James 1:21-27
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 2:14-26
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO.
James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Temporal and Eternal Salvation Important article on Protestant and Catholic uses of term "faith"
Righteousness and Merit another article highlighting the differences in Catholic and Protestant language
Justification by Faith Alone
Justification in James 2
Salvation Past, Present and Future
Resisting and Cooperating with God
Are all Christians Predestined to Persevere?
The Evangelical notion that Christians can't lose their salvation is unbiblical
lol...
“Men wrote as they were moved along by THE HOLY SPIRIT”
CORRECTION.
Catholic men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
“The bible was in circulation outside of your religion for century after century...”
Darwin Award Winner!
Your comment: You provide one verse, out of context and then are shown a plethora of scripture pointing out how you are wrong in your interpretation and you yet, like a broken record, ignore scripture to defend your faulty belief.
No. I provided God’s word and His answer to your question and concerns about God’s word. You repeatedly ignore it and deny, express disbelief in God’s words. Then you bring up old testament quotes that are addressed by God’s answer. ACTUALLY YOU SAY THAT GOD’S WORD IS NOT TRUTHFUL. God even knows that many do not not have faith in His word, as evidenced in the Bible passage, even if they protest that they do.
Based on your comments, I do not believe that you are seeking God’s Truth, but are trying to preach false statements about Catholic teachings.
Matthew 17 God’s words on establishing the Church (The Catholic Church):
He said to them, But who do you say that I am? 16* j Simon Peter said in reply, You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. 17Jesus said to him in reply, Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
So your false statements against the Catholic Church and its teachings will not prevail.
May God’s peace be with you.
Mostly Jewish men.
There was no Catholic church at the time and claiming them retroactively does not make them so.
Peter rock
Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm
Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.
Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (small stone) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (cliff, boulder, Abbott-Smith).
4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff (TDNT, 3, 100). 4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
4073 pétra (a feminine noun) a mass of connected rock, which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is a detached stone or boulder (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a solid or native rock, rising up through the earth (Souter) a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.
4073 (petra) is a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw (S. Zodhiates, Dict).
Its also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.
There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.
Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm
1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,
and
A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.
Wow! You really like to parse words and ignore what Jesus said.
But you do not mention the rest of the story.... Jesus gave the keys of the Kingdom to Peter and whatever you bound on earth will be bound in Heaven.... (etc.)
Your ability to ignore God’s words and intentions are frightening. Why do you try to distract from the real meaning of God’s word? You must be getting this information from some other site.
Peter and the Apostles, Martyrs and many Catholics built God’s Church by following the teachings of Jesus.
This is the original Greek 18 κá¼Î³á½¼ δΠÏοι λÎÎ³Ï á½ Ïι Ïὺ εἶ Î ÎÏÏοÏ, καὶ á¼Ïὶ ÏαÏÏá¿ Ïá¿ ÏÎÏÏá¾³ οἰκοδομήÏÏ Î¼Î¿Ï Ïὴν á¼ÎºÎºÎ»Î·Ïίαν, καὶ ÏÏλαι á¾ Î´Î¿Ï Î¿á½ ÎºÎ±ÏιÏÏÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïιν αá½Ïá¿Ï. 19 δÏÏÏ Ïοι Ïá½°Ï ÎºÎ»Îµá¿Î´Î±Ï Ïá¿Ï βαÏÎ¹Î»ÎµÎ¯Î±Ï Ïῶν οá½Ïανῶν, καὶ á½ á¼á½°Î½ δήÏá¿Ï á¼Ïὶ Ïá¿Ï γá¿Ï á¼ÏÏαι δεδεμÎνον á¼Î½ Ïοá¿Ï οá½Ïανοá¿Ï, καὶ á½ á¼á½°Î½ λÏÏá¿Ï á¼Ïὶ Ïá¿Ï γá¿Ï á¼ÏÏαι Î»ÎµÎ»Ï Î¼Îνον á¼Î½ Ïοá¿Ï οá½Ïανοá¿Ï
and in Latin 18 Et ego dico tibi, quia tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram ædificabo Ecclesiam meam, et portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam. 19 Et tibi dabo claves regni cælorum. Et quodcumque ligaveris super terram, erit ligatum et in cælis: et quodcumque solveris super terram, erit solutum et in cælis
and in English 18 And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; 19 and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
God still loves you and may you really understand His words. I do wish you God’s peace.
Your comment: I ate your Catholic wafer twice so as far as you teach, I’m as good as in heaven...
You might want to study a little more and believe in what Jesus provides for one who is properly prepared to receive our Lord’s Body and Blood.
For your sake, please do not take His Body and Blood unworthily. Please do not mock our Lord.
Also consider St Paul’s advice:
1 Cor 11:23-29
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
The Catholic Church started when the apostles prayed in the upper room, with Peter, and the Holy Spirit came upon them and guided them. The event is called Pentecost.
Catholics can’t prove it. They can only claim it.
The Catholic church is NEVER named once by name in the Bible that y’all claim the Catholic church wrote.
Quite an oversight there.
If they had put it in Scripture, it would have ended the discussion before it began.
Claiming it retroactively doesn’t make it so.
So by that criteria, the Baptists are the only legitimate church going cause it’s the only one mentioned.
John, the BAPTIST.
You should know by now that RC parroting papist propaganda in lieu of a valid argument is supposed to comfort the Catholic who may begin to doubt, and by repetition of the lie to persuade others.
If only those Scripture-searching evangelicals could be banned, as at Catholic answers before they get too close to the target.
“So by that criteria, the Baptists are the only legitimate church going cause its the only one mentioned.
John, the BAPTIST”.
Lord help us.
More error.
1 Cor 11:20-22 is the only place that manifestly describes how the Lord's supper took place in the life of the church, and in which "discerning the body" refers to recognizing each member as part of the body of Christ, in showing the Lord's sacrificial death by that communal meal, rather than to "shame them that have not" by not even waiting for the others but going ahead and filling their faces while others were hungry.
Which was utterly contrary to the Lord's sacrificial death by which He purchased the church with His own sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) and which again, they were supposed to be showing, declaring, by taking part in the communal meal of the Lord's supper.
As shown more here .
Even the notes in your NAB Bible recognize this:.
[11:27] It follows that the only proper way to celebrate the Eucharist is one that corresponds to Jesus intention, which fits with the meaning of his command to reproduce his action in the proper spirit. If the Corinthians eat and drink unworthily, i.e., without having grasped and internalized the meaning of his death for them, they will have to answer for the body and blood, i.e., will be guilty of a sin against the Lord himself (cf. 1 Cor 8:12).
[11:28] Examine himself: the Greek word is similar to that for approved in 1 Cor 11:19, which means having been tested and found true. The self-testing required for proper eating involves discerning the body (1 Cor 11:29), which, from the context, must mean understanding the sense of Jesus death (1 Cor 11:26), perceiving the imperative to unity that follows from the fact that Jesus gives himself to all and requires us to repeat his sacrifice in the same spirit (1 Cor 11:1825).
Moreover, the NT church never was a church that manifested the Lord's supper as being the central means of grace, around which all else revolved, it being the source and summit of the Christian faith in which the work of our redemption is accomplished, by which one received spiritual life in themselves, so that without which eating one cannot have eternal life (as per RC literalism, of Jn. 6:53,54).
In contrast believing the gospel is shown as being how one is regenerated, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) and thus is to desire the milk (1Pt. 2:2) and then the strong meat (Heb. 5:12-14) of the word of God, being nourished (1Tim. 4:6) by hearing the word of God and letting it dwell in them, (Col. 3:16) by which word (Scriptures) man is to live by, (Mt. 4:4) as Christ lived by the Father, (Jn. 6:57) doing His will being His meat. (Jn. 4:34)
Indeed, physician heal thyself, for the reality is that nowhere in the rest of Scripture is Peter said to be the rock upon which the church is built. In stark contrast, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (petra) or "stone" (lithos, and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8)
The CCC itself allows the interpretation that, On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church, (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), which is what many so-called) "Church Fathers" believed.
Moreover, Scripture simply does not reveal Peter as being the supreme infallible leader in Rome whom all the church looked to, nor for him being the first of a succession of such infallible popes .
And which even Catholic scholarship, among others, provides testimony against .
He will if you abandon that pagan religion.
Thus to be consistent with your literal interpretation of this unequivocal imperative "verily, verily" statement, one must believe and consume the Lord;s body in order to have spiritual and eternal life, and thus those who reject this interpretation cannot.
Affirm or deny and be inconsistent.
Catholics are SOOOOOO tongue-in-cheek challenged.
Hey, it’s a batter argument than simply asserting that all people who trusted Christ were Catholics by proxy.
Amen. I do not know what I would have done when we lost my daughter, brother, husband, bil, and my mom in less than 3 years. He has kept me going. Now, I have many health issues but God is the answer.
These wer the words of Jesus: 53Jesus said to them, Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
You either have faith and believe or you don’t.
Do you have faith in these words?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.