Posted on 09/08/2014 3:44:25 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
When pressed for an answer to "Paying tithes was under the Law", some retort that Christians are required to pay tithes because Abraham's paying of tithes to Melchizedek preceded to Law.
In reply to that, do the scriptures say in Genesis chapter 14 that Abraham was compelled to pay tithes, or was it rather a free will tithe offering, unlike the compelled tithe that was enacted under the Law?
In Deuteronomy 14:26 (NIV), it says that those who attended a particular feast day that they could "...Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. KJV ("...or for wine or for strong drink..." NASB: ("...or wine or strong drink...").
Since Deuteronomy 14:26 was under the Law, and the Law curse for not paying tithes is listed again in Malachi chapter 3, is one cursed, too, for not agreeing to buy wine or strong drink, say Saturday before one pays tithes on Sunday? If one is not compelled to do Deut. 14:26, does one commit sin if they (with their free will) still want to buy strong drink or less strong wine?
If tithes preceded the Law, and no curse is listed if Abraham did not pay tithes to Melchizedek, then it would seem that the curse is limited strictly to the Law (Old Covenant) and not under the New Covenant.
There would seem to only be blessing for paying tithes, but no curse for not doing so today...
Nice one! One of my kids was always going on how I gave money to the poor and to church and then spent money taking the youth group out (in reality he was only thinking why I made him wear non status clothing i.e. no Nike, Addidas etc for him). I told him about tithing and he mumbled - I said my take on it was that all that I had was God’s - he gave me my job and the ability to do it well so I could earn money and look after my family and so we could eat well and go on holidays and all he wanted was for me to let him have 10% of what was already his anyway!
The Bible calls salvation a free gift from God.
Here's the deal. If someone gives you a free gift, a very valuable, expensive gift, would you not want to do something for them?
At the very least you wouldn't want to do something to hurt or offend them.
Malachi 3 is pretty blunt on God's "feelings" about this subject.
In the OT the law of tithing like eating certain foods, wearing certain cloths as well as performing sacrifices, honoring the Saturday Sabbath. etc. had to do with obtaining salvation, sanctification, justification, righteousness etc. I.e., Holy laws on the person to prove their worthiness to God.
Jesus’s sacrifice for us fulfilled those laws. Nothing we can do today with works of which tithing is will make us worthy of salvation.
What pleased him in the Old Testament, pleases him in the New.
True. God doesn't change.
However he enacts temporal law at times to deal with differing cultures, nations.
Jesus told the Jews not to stone the adulteress; but it was in OT law.
Christians no longer require animal sacrifice; but it was in OT law.
The ceremonial law changes. The law of love is the only law which does not.
One is giving to God, rather than the specific church. He is not responsible if a church handles the money poorly. His alternative is to find another church so long as he is guided by the Holy Spirit.
Because churches have lots of liberal members.
Oh, don’t get me wrong! I agree with tithing and do - my point is that under the New Covenant much more is required - EVERYTHING! Our commitment is total or it is nothing at all. Of course, that is impossible, which is were the Grace of Jesus comes in. We DO NOT have the choice of controlling 90% of all that we have - at least, not under the New Covenant.
Some churches do. Some don’t. Find one that shares your understanding of the Word and go there. I did.
Well of course. Not just eternal salvation, but our current lives, families, etc., are all gifts from God, so of course we want to give to him, not just of our money, but also of our time, energy and love. There are a lot of things that are more legalistic in the Law than they are under Christianity. Part of the reason for that is that the Law is “a tutor leading to Christ” by demonstrating the incapacity of humans to EARN salvation, thus showing the need for the ransom. Paul says there are many things in the Law that no longer apply (and again, not suggesting we should be withholding from God, of ANYTHING we have, but rather discussing the strictly defined nature of the tithe).
tithing was not a requirement, but it was a church rule, made by men, but not a rule of God based on God's dictation. Since the church did most of the social welfare for 1800 years, tithing made sense but it was a tax, not a biblical requirement.
Unlike the Koran, God only gave ten commandments himself, but inspired men to make rules according to the local situation. Jesus said "What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, what you lose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. This was interpreted that local bishops/pastors could make rules to help their people, and then change them later. So most of the health rules and dress rules were ignored in the church until some literalists found them
I just found that article showing both Old and New Testament scriptures that related to your comment....not criticizing you...just FYI.
There are several NT places it is mentioned but not as clearly as Malachi 3....which I think is meant to show the blessings related to giving more than anything else.
Yeah, but He was talking to the priesthood, who were cheating Him on the tithes THEY were supposed to offer. Doesn’t apply to the common man.
I should have said lots of “conservative” churches have liberal members.
Jesus said in Luke 11:42 that we should practice justice and love of God, and NOT leave tithing undone. The example of pre-law Abraham says this is true.
However, there is no law. There is freedom. “Required” is the wrong word. It is associated with a command. The new command is to love God. We are free to be a blessing, and we are free to honor God. It is a good path to walk.
Read all of Malachi. Its obvious he's addressing more than the priests.
Old Testament Tithing was never in the form of money, it was always goods or food stuffs. Tithing is not required of the New Testament Church and any pastor that claims otherwise is in error. The New Testament model for giving is the proper method as outlined by the Apostle Paul. If the Holy Spirit puts it on your heart to give a specific amount, then by all means give that since ignoring such a prompting is sinful. The 10% rule sets up an artificial legalistic threshold that takes the Spirit out of it and if you give 10% out of some sense of obligation, you are not giving to the Lord in the manner in which he has prescribed. Some may be promoted to give 5% and some who are more well off might be promoted to give much more. In any event, if we are going to follow the OT model, then the actual tithe was around 33% when all special tithes were taken into account. There is no honor before the Lord in giving 10% if you do it because you are obligated to do so. 10% may be the right number for some, but that is not required.
You, my friend, are a WISE steward.
First, second and third tithe were all required for getting into the Kingdom of God in the church I used to belong to. What a guilt trip that was.
Then I found a new church up the road that was ok until the preacher told us that Gawd required us to tithe which meant giving 10% of gross to his church. They would pass the basket for every possible meeting they had including Christmas and Easter services. I quit that one right after that.
I now attend a church that doesn’t ever take up a collection ever. They have a box in the back and you can give what you want to. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t.
Though it is in the New Testament, Christ hasn't died yet. The law was still in affect until Christ's resurrection.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
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