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The Hail Mary of a Protestant
http://www.abouttherosary.com ^ | September 3, 2014 | Robbe Lyn Sebesta

Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet

A little six-year-old Protestant boy had often heard his Catholic companions reciting the prayer “Hail Mary.” He liked it so much that he copied it, memorized it and would recite it every day. “Look, Mommy, what a beautiful prayer,” he said to his mother one day.

“Never again say it,” answered the mother. “It is a superstitious prayer of Catholics who adore idols and think Mary a goddess. After all, she is a woman like any other. Come on, take this Bible and read it. It contains everything that we are bound to do and have to do.” From that day on the little boy discontinued his daily “Hail Mary” and gave himself more time to reading the Bible instead. One day, while reading the Gospel, he came across the passage about the Annunciation of the Angel to Our Lady. Full of joy, the little boy ran to his mother and said: “Mommy, I have found the ‘Hail Mary’ in the Bible which says: ‘Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women.’ Why do you call it a superstitious prayer?”

On another occasion he found that beautiful Salutation of St. Elizabeth to the Virgin Mary and the wonderful canticle MAGNIFICAT in which Mary foretold that “the generations would call her blessed.” He said no more about it to his mother but started to recite the “Hail Mary” every day as before. He felt pleasure in addressing those charming words to the Mother of Jesus, our Savior.

When he was fourteen, he one day heard a discussion on Our Lady among the members of his family. Every one said that Mary was a common woman like any other woman. The boy, after listening to their erroneous reasoning could not bear it any longer, and full of indignation, he interrupted them, saying:

“Mary is not like any other children of Adam, stained with sin. No! The Angel called her FULL OF GRACE AND BLESSED AMONGST WOMEN. Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and consequently Mother of God. There is no higher dignity to which a creature can be raised. The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed and you are trying to despise her and look down on her. Your spirit is not the spirit of the Gospel or of the Bible which you proclaim to be the foundation of the Christian religion.”

So deep was the impression which the boy’s talk had made that his mother many times cried out sorrowfully: “Oh my God! I fear that this son of mine will one day join the Catholic religion, the religion of Popes!” And indeed, not very long afterwards, having made a serious study of both Protestantism and Catholicism, the boy found the latter to be the only true religion and embraced it and became one of its most ardent apostles.

Some time after his conversion, he met his married sister who rebuked him and said indignantly: “You little know how much I love my children. Should any one of them desire to become a Catholic, I would sooner pierce his heart with a dagger than allow him to embrace the religion of the Popes!”

Her anger and temper were as furious as those of St. Paul before his conversion. However, she would change her ways, just as St. Paul did on his way to Damascus. It so happened that one of her sons fell dangerously ill and the doctors gave up hope of recovery. Her brother then approached her and spoke to her affectionately, saying: “My dear sister, you naturally wish to have your child cured. Very well, then, do what I ask you to do. Follow me, let us pray one ‘Hail Mary’ and promise God that, if your son recovers his health, you would seriously study the Catholic doctrine, and should you come to the conclusion that Catholicism is the only true religion, you would embrace it no matter what the sacrifices may be.”

His sister was somewhat reluctant at the beginning, but as she wished for her son’s recovery, she accepted her brother’s proposal and recited the “Hail Mary” together with him. The next day her son was completely cured. The mother fulfilled her promise and she studied the Catholic doctrine. After long preparation she received Baptism together with her whole family, thanking her brother for being an apostle to her.

The story was related during a sermon given by the Rev. Fr. Tuckwell. “Brethren,” he went on and said, “the boy who became a Catholic and converted his sister to Catholicism dedicated his whole life to the service of God. He is the priest who is speaking to you now! What I am I owe to Our Lady. You, too, my dear brethren, be entirely dedicated also to Our Lady and never let a day pass without saying the beautiful prayer, ‘Hail Mary’, and your Rosary. Ask her to enlighten the minds of Protestants who are separated from the true Church of Christ founded on the Rock (Peter) and ‘against whom the gates of hell shall never prevail.’”


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: herewegoagain; pleasenomore
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To: Elsie

Or what someone else thought He OUGHT to have said......


881 posted on 09/10/2014 6:22:49 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish; Elsie
So you don’t trust what His early disciples taught.

Sure we do. We have what they wrote down that we need to know.

It's all in that book that y'all claim the Catholic church wrote

882 posted on 09/10/2014 6:27:31 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish
This simplistic and literal reading of scripture is the great danger that lurks in Protestant thinking.

vs.

The convoluted and arcane reading of scripture is the great danger that lurks in Catholic teachings.


883 posted on 09/10/2014 7:04:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Steelfish
Those leading Protestant theologians who converted to Catholicism had the courage of their convictions.

Just like the Catholics that turn to the Simple Truth of PROTESTantism.

884 posted on 09/10/2014 7:06:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Steelfish
Those leading Protestant theologians who converted to Catholicism had the courage of their convictions.

Just like THESE guys...



Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

885 posted on 09/10/2014 7:07:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
I've posted LOTS of verses containing 'it is written'.

Why don't our Catholic friends post a bunch of verses about TRADITION?

886 posted on 09/10/2014 7:09:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

It’s all about authority. It begins and ends with authority. Not the Billy Graham or David Koresh or a 1001 corner streets passports teaching their own thing. Christ solved it by commanding His authority to teach, one truth to Peter and his successors. Period. Now have the courage what several pre-eminent Protestant and Episcopalian theologians and biblical scholars have done. Jettisoned Protestantism has a useless heretical error, and and converted whole heatedly to Catholicism.


887 posted on 09/10/2014 7:10:51 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: NKP_Vet
The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed...

And Scripture does NOT say that ...

1. she would never die; but will go directly to Heaven
2. she would be sinless
3. she will be venerated, adored and have millions of little statuettes placed around the world (that do not look a BIT Jewish)
4. she will be helping Jesus sort through the BILLIONS of prayers directed to Heaven each day.

888 posted on 09/10/2014 7:14:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

No, no, not like those guys. It the central teaching of the Church. You keep confusing teaching from individual sin which is for God to forgive or offend. Picking up stuff from noted anti-Catholic websites doesn’t help you. There are any number of Protestant from martin Luther down who have been unrepentant scoundrels and adulterers and some pastors even murderers.


889 posted on 09/10/2014 7:14:11 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Elsie
And Scripture does NOT say that ...

Where does Scripture say that every religious fact is contained in Scripture?

"Listen to the Church." --Jesus

Church of the Dormition

Dormition of Mary

890 posted on 09/10/2014 7:31:32 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Steelfish; Elsie
You simply could have stopped with St Peter. We have sinners who became saints. The person who pierced the side of Christ with a lance became a saint. The early Church too was beset with corrupt popes but lets not go to Henry VIII and the string of corrupt Protestant leaders from Martin Luther down.

The Catholic church doesn't even follow the very Bible that it claims it wrote.

That's what that is about, and no amount of excuses can justify that.

Qualifications for elder and deacon.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

That precludes taking communion with someone like that.

2 John 1:4-11 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:19-24 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


891 posted on 09/10/2014 11:21:46 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish
This is not about individuals, its about a Catechism, a core set of beliefs, whereas there is chaos among Protestant teachings. Just ask Jim Jones and David Koresh.

Instead there's ONE religion all under ONE head so that everyone under it can all be led astray together.

The only difference between Catholicism, or Mormonism or Koresh or Jones is size.

Obviously the Catholic church was never protected from having leaders in error, and even when they didn't have an outright evil pope, it didn't guarantee that individual bishops, cardinals, priests, or whatever weren't just as bad as as Koresh of Jones.

Having a core set of beliefs is no protection against error or deception amongst leadership.

892 posted on 09/10/2014 11:28:25 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish
When objective truth as researched and established by scholars, theologians, and historians form both the Catholic and Protestant sides confirm the validity and divine authority to the Catholic Church then the debate ends.

And when the objective truth of Scripture confirms and validates the Catholic church's authority, the debate WILL end, but it has not so the debate continues.

893 posted on 09/10/2014 11:32:15 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MamaB
Not very Christ like, is it?

Christ who?

It's all about Mary, dontcha know?

Try to get a Catholic to ignore Mary for simply one month and focus the attention that they would have given her on Jesus, and watch them get the willies and run as fast as they can in the other direction.

Religion without Mary is inconceivable to them.

If Catholics focused on Jesus as much as they focus on Mary, they'd turn this world on its ear and I'd bet their churches become packed out again.

That's why Catholics make about the most on fire, evangelistic, born again Christians you'll ever meet.

894 posted on 09/10/2014 11:37:22 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish
This simplistic and literal reading of scripture is the great danger that lurks in Protestant thinking. No wonder the famous English essayist wrote that unlike other heresies, Protestantism spawned a “cluster of heresies.” From Jim Jones and Billy Graham to David Koresh and Robert Schuller and today pathetic Joel Osteens and TD Jakes. They all preach heresies of varying degrees. Different concepts and not the one single uniform teaching that Peter and his successors were commanded to teach in one Church through the end of time with the promise that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.

And you put Billy Grahmam in with Jim Jones and Joel Osteen?

That displays a lack of discernment that explains a LOT in you posts.

895 posted on 09/10/2014 11:39:27 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Springfield Reformer; Kandy Atz; Steelfish; Elsie

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It isn’t Scripture, but it is still true.

I believe that that is the reason that God would NEVER put a single man in the kind of position of authority that the popes, not to mention cardinals and bishops in Catholicism, are in.

Man simply cannot be trusted with that kind of unbridled power and Elise’s lists of bad popes verify that.


896 posted on 09/10/2014 11:42:31 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Great post.


897 posted on 09/10/2014 11:43:28 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Steelfish
Thus all this snippeting from Scripture alone is worse than ludicrous, it is unmaintainable as a coherent singular teaching for all generations to come.

Which is exactly what the Catholic church does with that verse about Peter being the rock on which the church is built.

That's why one needs to look at the Greek and it shows clearly that the Roman Catholic church's snippeting of Scripture is incorrect.

Peter – rockMatthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm

Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.

Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.

There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.

Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm

Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm

1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”

and

“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4073.htm

898 posted on 09/10/2014 11:49:03 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

Elsie should stick to milking cows. Her/his bigotry against,Catholics, Mormons. .pretty much anyone against her version of worship fits right into a crazy Islamist Iman. Minus the sense of humour.


899 posted on 09/10/2014 11:50:17 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: metmom

Elsie should stick to milking cows. Her/his bigotry against,Catholics, Mormons. .pretty much anyone against her version of worship fits right into a crazy Islamist Iman. Minus the sense of humour.


900 posted on 09/10/2014 11:50:21 PM PDT by Blackirish
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