She's EVERYwhere!
And looking SO Jewish; too!
Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
A little six-year-old Protestant boy had often heard his Catholic companions reciting the prayer “Hail Mary.” He liked it so much that he copied it, memorized it and would recite it every day. “Look, Mommy, what a beautiful prayer,” he said to his mother one day.
“Never again say it,” answered the mother. “It is a superstitious prayer of Catholics who adore idols and think Mary a goddess. After all, she is a woman like any other. Come on, take this Bible and read it. It contains everything that we are bound to do and have to do.” From that day on the little boy discontinued his daily “Hail Mary” and gave himself more time to reading the Bible instead. One day, while reading the Gospel, he came across the passage about the Annunciation of the Angel to Our Lady. Full of joy, the little boy ran to his mother and said: “Mommy, I have found the ‘Hail Mary’ in the Bible which says: ‘Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women.’ Why do you call it a superstitious prayer?”
On another occasion he found that beautiful Salutation of St. Elizabeth to the Virgin Mary and the wonderful canticle MAGNIFICAT in which Mary foretold that “the generations would call her blessed.” He said no more about it to his mother but started to recite the “Hail Mary” every day as before. He felt pleasure in addressing those charming words to the Mother of Jesus, our Savior.
When he was fourteen, he one day heard a discussion on Our Lady among the members of his family. Every one said that Mary was a common woman like any other woman. The boy, after listening to their erroneous reasoning could not bear it any longer, and full of indignation, he interrupted them, saying:
“Mary is not like any other children of Adam, stained with sin. No! The Angel called her FULL OF GRACE AND BLESSED AMONGST WOMEN. Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and consequently Mother of God. There is no higher dignity to which a creature can be raised. The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed and you are trying to despise her and look down on her. Your spirit is not the spirit of the Gospel or of the Bible which you proclaim to be the foundation of the Christian religion.”
So deep was the impression which the boy’s talk had made that his mother many times cried out sorrowfully: “Oh my God! I fear that this son of mine will one day join the Catholic religion, the religion of Popes!” And indeed, not very long afterwards, having made a serious study of both Protestantism and Catholicism, the boy found the latter to be the only true religion and embraced it and became one of its most ardent apostles.
Some time after his conversion, he met his married sister who rebuked him and said indignantly: “You little know how much I love my children. Should any one of them desire to become a Catholic, I would sooner pierce his heart with a dagger than allow him to embrace the religion of the Popes!”
Her anger and temper were as furious as those of St. Paul before his conversion. However, she would change her ways, just as St. Paul did on his way to Damascus. It so happened that one of her sons fell dangerously ill and the doctors gave up hope of recovery. Her brother then approached her and spoke to her affectionately, saying: “My dear sister, you naturally wish to have your child cured. Very well, then, do what I ask you to do. Follow me, let us pray one ‘Hail Mary’ and promise God that, if your son recovers his health, you would seriously study the Catholic doctrine, and should you come to the conclusion that Catholicism is the only true religion, you would embrace it no matter what the sacrifices may be.”
His sister was somewhat reluctant at the beginning, but as she wished for her son’s recovery, she accepted her brother’s proposal and recited the “Hail Mary” together with him. The next day her son was completely cured. The mother fulfilled her promise and she studied the Catholic doctrine. After long preparation she received Baptism together with her whole family, thanking her brother for being an apostle to her.
The story was related during a sermon given by the Rev. Fr. Tuckwell. “Brethren,” he went on and said, “the boy who became a Catholic and converted his sister to Catholicism dedicated his whole life to the service of God. He is the priest who is speaking to you now! What I am I owe to Our Lady. You, too, my dear brethren, be entirely dedicated also to Our Lady and never let a day pass without saying the beautiful prayer, ‘Hail Mary’, and your Rosary. Ask her to enlighten the minds of Protestants who are separated from the true Church of Christ founded on the Rock (Peter) and ‘against whom the gates of hell shall never prevail.’”
There are none so blind...
I have become all things to all men,
that I might by all means save some.
That's my purpose.
My tactics and mannerisms tend to vary with the subject and with time spent.
That’s fair. Good fishing.
No, it’s not a question of being right to the end. When 1+1=2 you don’t continue to debate this till the end of time. When objective truth as researched and established by scholars, theologians, and historians form both the Catholic and Protestant sides confirm the validity and divine authority to the Catholic Church then the debate ends. If not, each year we have new Christian sects, sub-sects springing up like wild and poisonous mushrooms. There is confusion and disarray. Pentecostalists, Baptists, AnaBaptists, Amish, First Baptist Church, Lutherans, Trinitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, what an unholy mess and then every corner street Foursquare Church to say nothing of the variety of Black Churches. Yes, none are so blind as those who refuse to see.
True; but when someone claims that Mary is now in heaven; helping Jesus with His mail; a rational person will say, "Got any PROOF of that?"
Golly!
This sounds a little RACIST!
That's what happens when YOUR chosen religion does such a POOR job of catechizing it's members.
GOD has no mother.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
But objective truth does not confirm the validity and authority as you have described, else there would be no problem.
As it stands, you have no proof of validity, nor authority, and a malevolent history that proves quite the opposite! That is where the debate actually ends.
Yes indeed, it is. I mean, by the very definition.
Virtually all of Catholicism at this point is based on paganism.
At this point, and every point along the way, I think. One cannot possibly draw the Roman church out of the Nazarene sect of Judaism, that which was the beginning - It is impossible. And the closer one would care to move the genesis of the Roman church toward that beginning (as they are so oft inclined to brag), the more impossible it becomes. Literally impossible.
Unfortunately most of the Protestant churches have retained much of that paganism. Those truly searching for truth need to seriously study to find where "traditions"/and beliefs in the churches they attend came from.
This is absolutely TRUE, and can be proven without much effort at all.
Good post. Thx.
Wow. Blatant admission.
Yet, as expected, it imagines this practice came from the apostles and NT church, but which never exampled or instructed it, and instead showed that the believer has immediate access to God in the Divine Christ, (Heb. 10:19), who is the all sufficient and immediate intercessor between God (the Father) and man. (Heb. 2:17,18; 4:15,16) To the glory of God.
In my experience, they 'imagine' much.
More (= http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/MarySC.html)
That page has a lot of good information... I would also encourage a comparison table between Mary's supposed titles and those of various goddesses (Diana, Artemis, Isis, Astarte, etc...)- That is an eye-opening study. And as well, a comparative of the supposed titles and attributes of Mary against the Titles and Attributes of Yeshua... Another profound evidence.
Yes Ma'am... A Roman cathedral in Chicago, IIRC.
And yes, it IS plain out awful. Laying aside what they say it is, and going by it's historical imagery and symbolism, it is outright demonic (and I do mean that exactly, in every sense).
Not very Christ like, is it?
I don't give other denominations a pass either. Many of them adopted the same type of behavior as Rome when they gained power. After centuries of wars and religious cleansing in Europe, its a miracle there are any Believers still there. You certainly did not see the love of Christ on display by many so-called Christians during much of Europe's history. And there is a good reason - the Word was not a priority, the Holy Spirit was ignored. Instead, man's traditions and the musings of theologians took precedent. Consider that for about 1500 years, God's Salvation plan, and the mystery of the Body of Christ, were both readily available in Paul's writing to the Church. When inspired men reintroduced this to the world, the religious authorities declared it heresy! That is how far into error and ignorance religion had devolved. The seeds of the apostasy were sown while Paul was still teaching. (2 Timothy 1:15)
Had Rome listened to some of the Catholic reformers, men who actually studied the Word and received a glimpse of God's Truth, this discussion would not be happening. Instead, they were excommunicated, executed, or fled to save their lives. Instead of measuring beliefs and practices against what theologians think, or what a denomination practices, you should measure it against God's Word. That is THE Truth you seek. The Holy Spirit is the guide, or referee if you will. If you ignore both, you get dead, and often very dangerous religion. The Body of Christ has only one Head. I'll give you a hint, it is not, and will never be, any pastor, theologian, monk, priest, pope, cardinal, or even a blue jay with advanced religious degrees.
You continue to disparage good men of God for absolutely no reason. Billy Graham, who quite possibly has personally led more people to Christ than anyone else in the 20th century, has nothing in common with cult leaders like David Koresh and Jim Jones. You may despise T.D. Jakes, or Joel Osteen, but neither has ordered a genocidal crusade against the Catholic Diocese of Dallas or Houston. And none of those "street preachers" that triggers some irrational hatred inside of you, some of whom may be operating under the call and anointing of God, to my knowledge has ever lamented the fact that some pope wasn't decapitated, as one of your partners did about Martin Luther earlier in this thread. I know you dislike scripture posted here, but something like a speck in the eye versus the log in your own comes to mind.
I posted God's Word to confirm my point, and you refer me to some theologian? How brilliantly appropriate. The last place I look for Truth is from theologians, especially those changing denominations like their underwear. I would have little confidence in someone with such a lack of certainty in their beliefs, and would question the scriptural knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual maturity of someone who puts more faith in a denomination than God and His Word.
Degrees don't impress me - especially advanced religious ones. Neither do they impress Jesus, as he selected fishermen, tax collectors, and even a persecutor of His Body to spread the Word. God looks at the heart and the fruit, as we should for everyone, especially those who would lead. With the anointing of God, even an enemy of the Church can be transformed into the greatest evangelist of all time. If one has the Holy Spirit as a guide, God's Word is so simple a child can understand it. It takes a theologian, or religion, to make it confusing.
There were many great theologians at the time of Jesus, full of knowledge, but they did not even know God, who was standing right in front of them. That is a startling truth that should be a wake up call to all Believers to be extremely vigilant about who or what gets their attention. Of the theologians Jesus said,
Matthew 15:6-9 (AMP)
6 So for the sake of your tradition (the rules handed down by your forefathers), you have set aside the Word of God [depriving it of force and authority and making it of no effect].
7 You pretenders (hypocrites)! Admirably and truly did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:
8 These people draw near Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far away from Me.
9 Uselessly do they worship Me, for they teach as doctrines the commands of men.
Matthew 15:14 (AMP)
14 Let them alone and disregard them; they are blind guides and teachers. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a ditch.
Jesus words are just as true now, as they were throughout the last 2,000 years. The theologians of His day thought they were doing God's work by killing Jesus and persecuting Believers. They were clinging to their traditions, doctrines, and in the end, missed out on God's plan for them. Some things never change when it comes to the spirit of religion.
The religious ditch is deep and wide. Don't fall into it.
I'm no theologian, but if God says to attend to His Words, and that they are spirit and life, I think that is much more important than the flawed opinions of a confused theologian. One of many good lessons I have learned from Jesus, HE IS THE HEAD of the Body of Christ. You don't turn to the elbow for direction. The knee can't help you. And even if the navel has super awesome degrees, or looks smart in his fancy new religious costume, his advice does not trump what the HEAD says! This is true for every denomination, and every Believer.
Hey look, here are a few more "fish-hunting quotes" that "serve no purpose and are nothing but pure simplistic pieces of text taken from here and there." Instead of dismissing the verses people post, I suggest you actually read them, truly HEARING the Truth God is sharing with you. The words of theologians are ink on paper. The Words of God are Alive, and just as relevant today, as they were 2,000 years ago.
Colossians 2:18-23 (AMP)
18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit,
19 And not holding fast to the Head, from Whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by means of its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20 If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things and have escaped from the world's crude and elemental notions and teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules and regulations?—such as]
21 Do not handle [this], Do not taste [that], Do not even touch [them],
22 Referring to things all of which perish with being used. To do this is to follow human precepts and doctrines.
23 Such [practices] have indeed the outward appearance [that popularly passes] for wisdom, in promoting self-imposed rigor of devotion and delight in self-humiliation and severity of discipline of the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh (the lower nature). [Instead, they do not honor God but serve only to indulge the flesh.]
Not Christ-like at all.
This kind of cut and paste stuff won’t work. This is standard Protestant tripe. Why don’t you follow the leading American Lutheran theologian, scholar, and professor, Rev. Richard Neuhaus, who after many years of studious research crossed over to Catholicism to say nothing of Augustine, Aquinas, and Benedict XVI (called, the “theological Einstein of our times by TIME magazine). Or in the resignation of the President of the highest Protestant scholarly body, Dr. Frank Beckwith of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS).
By your lights these folks were all fools and your disparate and selective snippets of Scripture trumps everybody’s else reading of Scripture- the books of which were authenticated by the early Church Fathers. What a profound grant of authority!!
This simplistic and literal reading of scripture is the great danger that lurks in Protestant thinking. No wonder the famous English essayist wrote that unlike other heresies, Protestantism spawned a “cluster of heresies.” From Jim Jones and Billy Graham to David Koresh and Robert Schuller and today pathetic Joel Osteens and TD Jakes. They all preach heresies of varying degrees. Different concepts and not the one single uniform teaching that Peter and his successors were commanded to teach in one Church through the end of time with the promise that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it.
As for getting hung up on educational elitism, some forget the Holy Spirit is our teacher, and we would not recognize Jesus as our Lord unless, like Peter, the Father had revealed this to us Himself. So every believer is a direct pupil of God, just as Jeremiah prophesied it would be so for those in the New Covenant. And can there be a better teacher than God?
Some here might object. Surely only the elite can handle such special knowledge. But the pharisees also strenuously objected to Christ teaching what He did to lowly fishermen, tax collectors, and other ordinary sinners. Why how dare He! The nerve! Surely all that special knowledge would be under their control, not the commoners.
But Jesus actually said it pleased God to shut out the elites, and give His greatest blessings of truth to ordinary sinners. If some abuse that truth, and lead people astray with false teaching, they will pay dearly for their crimes against God. But God will not withhold the food of His word from His own sheep, simply because there are wolves about. His sheep know His voice, and will only follow Him. The Good Shepherd knows His own, and they are safe, and well fed, with Him.
Peace,
SR
This discussion begins and ends with authority. It is not about elites. Christ did not command His disciples to instruct “multiple” truths and we can’t go on debating which is “the” truth till the end of time. This is why Christ made sure that this authority is unique and be extended to one Church through St. Peter and his successors. (Not to 1001 evangelists of offering as many interpretations from Billy Graham to David Koresh)
Thus all this snippeting from Scripture alone is worse than ludicrous, it is unmaintainable as a coherent singular teaching for all generations to come. Those leading Protestant theologians who converted to Catholicism had the courage of their convictions.
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