Posted on 08/24/2014 4:45:06 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
I grew up in a Lutheran family and later became Catholic. The Mariology might not be “as strong” in the Lutheran church as in the Catholic Church, but most of these views held by Luther aren’t exactly new to me, and the one’s that are, aren’t particularly shocking. Even as a kid, I was always more shocked by the things members of other Protestants denominations said about Mary, than anything I read or heard about Catholic teaching. I’d say that even today Mary is held in high regard in the Lutheran church even if it isn’t nearly as apparent as it is in Catholicism.
Luther accepted the very same anti-Christ, anti-Christian, Pharisees that Jesus Christ condemned as his final authority.
Therefore, those who also accept the anti-Christ, anti-Christian, Pharisee Approved Luther Subset of Scripture are at best deluded heretics who follow in the footsteps of the Pharisees rather than following Jesus Christ, and more often than not, simply following of their own personal preferences the way Eve followed her own preferences rather than following of Christ.
Have a very nice day
You know the Blessed Virgin has her own book in the Qu’ran as well? I know that surprised me, a lot. She is literally the only woman mentioned by name, but she’s mentioned frequently.
There is something about the ideal of a pure and chaste and good woman that seems to resonate in people.
And these men?????
Top 10 Most Wicked Popes
http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/
1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
Top 10 Worst Popes in History
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php
1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)
If Mary is the mother of God and the Father is God, then Mary is the mother of God the Father.
If Mary is the mother of God and the Holy Spirit is God, then Mary is the mother of God the Holy Spirit.
That puts Mary above the Godhead, makes Mary deity, makes her the mother of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, making them created, finite beings with beginning.
It totally messes up all kinds of theology.
Do Catholics EVER think through what they have been spoon fed for their entire lives, cause it sure doesn't look that way with the arguments they use.
I'll stick with agreeing with the Holy Spirit in what He inspired in Scripture: *Mary, the mother of Jesus*.
That way, I KNOW I can't be wrong.
In Scripture, the Holy Spirit is clear in calling her *mother of Jesus*.
John 2:1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
They want to hate Luther and will find any excuse to do so, even if they have to make something up.
You’ve shown them the facts, time and again, and still, there are some who continue to recite the same old mantras about Luther and the Apocrypha.
All the facts in the world will not convince someone whose mind is made up and will not believe.
Thanks for trying, though. Those kinds of inaccurate statements need to be exposed and corrected.
Thank you.
In one sense, I can see what the OP is doing because even those who are heretics can also agree on certain other Catholic truths.
OTOH, I agree with you. As a Traditional Catholic I would never use a heretic as support for Catholic truths.
The view is that the only way to salvation is through the Pope (or rather a mythic perfect Pope since the last few don’t pass the mustard).
What is funny is that this was meant to be an attack on Lutherans today, who are probably very familiar with this material, and other non Lutheran Protestants, who couldn’t care less.
Thankfully, God used dear Luther to recover His Gospel of Grace!
For this, every true believer should be thankful for Luther... And overlook his many failures.
Jesus Christ said He is the King, the Jewish King, who sits on the throne of David. Therefore, His mother is the Queen. It's that simple, Mary is the Queen of Christ's Kingdom. PERIOD.
Anyone who says Mary is a powerless is denying what Scripture says regarding the King, the Queen, and His Kingdom as established by God in the Old Testament.
Have a nice day.
Thank you for your listing a chapter in the Bible dear salvation. I agree that His Wird is inspired and the ultimate basis of all doctrine.
There are a lot more believers in Catholicism than any other faith in the world. Catholics - Going strong now for 2,000 years. The reason? Started by Christ who said he would be with His Church till the end of the ages, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
Islam does so to limit the divinity of Jesus to one being born of a woman.
Recall in Islam, women are not held in high regard.
Large numbers do not make it right.
She seems to be the exception that tests the rule. She’s reverenced in the Qu’ran like the French reverenced Saint Joan.
Not going to step on theological toes - or not often, I’m quite simply not that smart - but there are common patterns in all beliefs that seem to be hard wired into us.
There was a good thread on sun worship a couple days ago - again, it seems to be something universal, just like the just, chaste and virginal woman.
I believe the Catholic Faith is the one, true faith, but I would agree that I wouldn’t use numbers to support truth.
Case in Point: Isn’t the number of adherents following Islam growing faster than any other religion/denomination?
I consider Islam an ideology based on hate and wanting to kill every Christian that walks the earth, started by a pedophile warmongering psychopath. But you’re right about them breeding like rabbits.
Is it just breeding that is increasing their numbers? I thought people are converting to Muslim as well (and not by force necessarily).
Its one thing to say that Mary is not God. Its another thing entirely to say Mary is the mother of god. Similarly that God would die on a cross, or become man.
The posters on this forum deny the profound and necessary communication, either the divinity of Christ or the humanity of Christ.
That or assume as the Sabellians, Jesus was only a modalistic man who was only a mask of God denies the trinity. God is a trinity and therefore the second person Jesus is God and a person.
And there are some ancient Christian and Catholic conclusions which are inescapable based on the reality of what Jesus came to this world to accomplish. God was born to a woman because God must have died on the cross. Yet, though he was God had the power to take up life again.
God is both man and God in the second person of the trinity. If he is man he was born to a woman, who because she gave birth to the second person of the trinity, is also the mother of God.
She is Queen of heaven because Jesus is the king of Jerusalem, and the king of heaven and earth, which makes her the mother of Jesus and also the mother of God the Queen of heaven and earth.
If God truly became man and then choose to save humanity through his humanity, he did not at the same time choose to save through humanity by means of a non-humanity.
God is man and God and man in the second person in the trinity.... One would think Christian people would get that this actually means something. To say it doesn’t is to be a heretic, and an unbeliever in Jesus.
To imply some artificial and extra-biblical belief that somehow Mary is not the mother of God, when they believe that God had also decided to die a humiliation on the cross in order to save humanity is would be inconsistent. Why is one position so much more difficult than another?
What is not assumed is not saved. God assumed our humanity completely in order to save it. The instrument of salvation God had chosen to use for mankind was his very self-taking on human flesh by being born into this world as a man. Both natures are present in one person such that realities of one are realities in another. Jesus is a man, and a man is Jesus. Jesus is God and God is a man.
Are there distinctions? From the beginning of time did God intend to be born into this world to save it? Does God change? Or have no beginning and no end?
There is a whole lot of ignorance on display in this thread. I’d advise many step back, and do their homework, to understand that there are extremely good biblical and understandable reasons for why Catholics and many Eastern and Orthodox Christians believe what the believe about Mary.
Isn’t God worth more to you than arguing on some message board without having understood the other side?
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