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Locked on 07/15/2014 4:28:23 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
Flame war and childishness |
Posted on 07/14/2014 9:20:18 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
To my Protestant brothers and sisters:
It's time to come back to Mother Church. We want you, we need you, we love you.
I've spent a lot of time in dialogue with activist atheists recently, and the direction we are going is not pretty. We are witnessing a rapid cultural decline into amorality.
Satan seeks the ruin of souls through the destruction of marriage and family, and the quickest route to his goal is the profanation of sex. The truth and meaning of human sexuality is our era's cultural fault line, and unfortunately, Protestant denominations have been tumbling into its widening crevace at an alarming pace.
The first cracks denying the sacred nature of human sexuality began mere decades ago with the first tentative acceptance of contraception by a Christian church (the Anglicans). After 1,900+ years of unbroken Christian teaching on the immorality of contraception (including 400+ years of unbroken Protestant teaching), a moral evil was suddenly declared good. The entirety of Protestantism, although horrified at first, soon followed suit.
"Woe to those who call evil good" -- Isaiah 5:20
Then came other issues -- sterilization, masturbation, abortion, fornication and cohabiting, homosexual activity and homosexual "marriage". One by one, Protestant communities have broken from Christian teaching and sided with the secular culture. Many Protestant communities do not accept all the aforementioned evils as good, of course, and some are making a valiant attempt to fight one or more of them. However, there is no guarantee that those denominations won't eventually accept other sexual sins in the same way they accepted contraception, sterilization and masturbation. A majority vote by church leaders could launch an unsuspecting Protestant from the Spirit of the Gospel right into the spirit of the age -- the Planned Parenthood age.
Look where you are standing. Unless you stand with the Catholic Church, you may already have one foot off the cliff.
How to guarantee that you'll stand firmly on the ground of moral Truth? Come back home to the Catholic Church.
For over two thousand years:
The Catholic Church has never taught that contraception is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that sterilization is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that masturbation is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that abortion is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that fornication is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that homosexual activity is a moral good, and she never will.
The moral teachings of the Church have never changed, and they never will.
Human sexuality is transcendent, life-giving and sacred, and the Catholic Church will teach that Truth till the last day.
Dear Protestant, a church with a changing morality is a church built on shifting sand. If you want to build your life and eternity on something solid, build it on the Rock of Peter. Don't be carried about by every wind of social change; come back to the Catholic Church and stand strong with us -- one united Body as Jesus intended.
America may not survive many more generations at the rate we are going, but the Church and her teachings will stand regardless, speaking the same Truths, undisturbed, till the end of time. Believe me, it's a really nice place to be in a storm. Extremely peaceful.
So, come on. You'll like it here, living in peace and joy and certainty. It's your rightful home anyway.
Come back to Holy Mother Church. It really is time.
Or perhaps let's not.
I was in my doctor's office this morning and they had (I kid you not) al jazeera running on the TV. The current conflict in Gaza was being discussed and "reported" on and it made me wonder, as they were showing bodies of women and children being pulled out of piles of rubble, should we condemn Judaism for the actions of the Israeli government. OR will we, like my Protestant parents and myself for that matter, say that Israel must defend itself against aggression and people who want to see the entire nation destroyed?
There are parallels between the situation in the Holy Land today and the history of the Church dealing with aggressive heretics. Lethal force is being used against a hostile but civilian population because one religion doesn't want another religion to exist.
I say there can be no more peace with islam than there could have been with the cathars or albigensians.
You're right though...the English makes it pretty clear to anyone who reads the text.
Can't right now as I don't have my resources available, but maybe latter.
Sad isn't it? Can't let the populace see how pro life America is.
5.56mm
When they act like them, it's not hard to believe.
Why did you invite e-s into the discussion of which he was not a part?
You’re going to then sit back with your popcorn and watch the show?
That screams *pot stirring* if nothing else does.
The same reason you ping the prot posse, and the fact that he does a much better job of dismantling your ludicrous belief in OSAS argument than I could.
The better question would be why don't you want him included?
you>I in no way contradicted myself.
I'll repost our conversation just so we're clear on this.
Me>“If, as according to the RCC, you commit a mortal sin and it’s unconfessed to the priest, you do not go to Heaven. The real meaning: one would go to Hell.”
You>No. It is not that the sin must be confessed to a priest (although that would be best if circumstances allow it) - for that might be impossible because of circumstances. The sin must be renounced and repented of. God sent priests for confession (John 20:19-23), but God knows that not everyone has access to a priest at all times.
A man who had committed a mortal sin, and genuinely had contrition for it can, if he were in a situation where confession to a priest were impossible, commit himself to the mercy of God in perfect contrition. I have no reason to doubt God’s mercy in that situation.
Me>“Welcome to the Biblical understanding of asking Christ for the forgiveness of our sins. No earthly priest needed.”
You>False. Christ sent priests for confession (John 20:19-23).
Me>So my question remains...why the need for confession to a priest?
If God will forgive sins when a priest is not available, surely He will forgive sins to a person who confesses their sins to Him whether they go a priest or not.
Me>This was not part of the original discussion but I wanted to address John 20:19-23..again.
How are sins forgiven? Faith through Christ just as we are discussing here. If people believe in Christ, sins forgiven...if not, sins not forgiven.
This was the message Peter preached at Pentecost. He didn't say,"come confess your sins to me and I will forgive or retain them now did he? Nope. He preached repentance, then baptism...all through Christ.
Wow! You have no temptations or sins in your life! So Jesus wasn’t the only sinless human?
It’s even better than that—even Jesus was tempted.
The belief that OSAS is “ludicrous” demands that you believe that man is responsible for and thereby earns his own salvation. Is that what you believe?
“Why did you invite e-s into the discussion of which he was not a part?”
So you’re saying you’ve never chimed in where you were not involved from the beginning?
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.
“If God will forgive sins when a priest is not available, surely He will forgive sins to a person who confesses their sins to Him whether they go a priest or not.”
1) Where EXACTLY is my supposed contradiction? There is no contradiction. I did not contradict myself.
2) I never said God would forgive sins without a priest when someone had recourse to a priest but did not avail themselves of that priest’s God-given authority and ability to absolve. Thus I did not contradict myself. And I knew from the beginning that I was not contradicting myself.
3) Here, let me help you AGAIN since you seem to have such difficulty understanding what is so plain:
- God sent priests with the power to absolve (John 20:19-23).
- Under normal circumstances the priest serves that role.
- In some circumstances - captivity, being at death’s door, being the most obvious ones - no priest is available. In that situation a man should confess his sin as he would anyway, and do so with perfect contrition, and hope for the mercy of God.
- I have every reason to believe God is merciful and will take into account the man’s perfect contrition but inability to make use of the faculties of a priest.
- Whether or not forgiveness is applied to him is up to God, but as I said, I have no reason to doubt that God is merciful when a man is perfectly contrite and has no recourse to a priest.
Now, that’s longer than what I said before, but doesn’t differ in any necessary important details to what I said before. Thus, there is no contradiction at all. And I knew it all along that there was no contradiction.
Now, why should someone avail himself of a priest’s faculties if a sin - in some circumstances - can be forgiven (i.e. forgiveness applied to the penitent person) without the faculties of a priest? Because that’s how God obviously intended it as seen in John 20:19-23. God works through His people all the time. He works through His priests. That’s how he wanted it. That’s why He made them priests. That’s why He sent them under the Church into the world.
Think of it this way: Can we know Jesus without being able to read? Yes. Sure we can. But God gave us the Bible to know Him better. Thus, we know Jesus best when we use all that He gave us to know Him - and that includes the Bible naturally. Yet no one would doubt that illiterate people can know Jesus just because they can read. Any literate Christian person who has access to a Bible is making a mistake if they spend time reading it. Any Catholic who has access to a priest but does not avail himself of God’s gift of absolution held by the priest is making a mistake.
I made no contradiction whatsoever.
“The belief that OSAS is “ludicrous” demands that you believe that man is responsible for and thereby earns his own salvation. Is that what you believe?”
Straw man. All that denial of the heretical doctrine of OSAS would imply is admission that we can sin our way out of a saved condition - in other words we reject Christ and the gifts He has given us in exchange for worldly pleasures. It in no way implies that a man believes he can earn his salvation. Dan Corner, a Protestant who absolutely denies OSAS, in no way believes he earns his own salvation. And I agree with entirely on that point. Thus, your point is clearly a straw man as it is not only logically flawed but demonstratively proved false by actual beliefs held by people who reject OSAS.
You>No. It is not that the sin must be confessed to a A man who had committed a mortal sin, and genuinely had contrition for it can, if he were in a situation where confession to a priest were impossible, commit himself to the mercy of God in perfect contrition. I have no reason to doubt God’s mercy in that situation.
Sounds to me like you’ve got a guilty conscience.
Perhaps that’s the allure of Protestantism ... you can live your life as you see fit, do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and then, when the bill comes due, say “No problemo - I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior decades ago. Bill paid-in-full. No skin off my nose.”
Good point, it was actually well over a million, some sources say over two million. It was a holocaust, which is why the Catholic commentators defending it here are truly vile, since they are comparing the murdered Cathars to Nazis or terrorists rather than the directly applicable comparison of them being treated like WWII Jews.
In fact, Cathars were non-violent, peaceful people who won the hearts of the peasants through their gentleness and kindness. They were spiritually brave to an incredible degree, holding hands and singing psalms as they were executed. That's why Catholic apologists have to demonize them, because the horror of what the Church did to them was greatly multiplied by their innocence and devotion to God.
Yet not only are they hideously slandered, their mass murder is denied entirely - the French did it, they died of natural causes. Well yeah, the French did it at the command and reward of the Church, and starvation and sickness are natural causes, as long as you don't mention it came from being hunted for years until you were trapped like animals.
I must say, though, I've never seen a Catholic apologist express actual joy over the killings until this thread. Truth is always satisfying, even hard truths. So seeing the true Catholic bloodlust openly confirmed is, in its own way, a good thing. No, most Catholics are not deranged. But for those who are, such sadistic enjoyment is still a protected madness even after two thousand years of bestial slaughter.
And that is a problem, I think. Its also why their lies flow like water - because in the eyes of the Church, heresy is not Catharism, it's disagreement. So no one reading this who is not an obedient Catholic should think the words of the Catholic apologists on this thread praising the slaughter only applies a thousand years ago. No, it applies now, to you and your family and children, today. Chopped and burned for the crime of heresy, praise be to God. Otherwise these apologists are hypocrites, but that's impossible - in fact, thinking they are murderous hypocrites is heresy.
And you don't want to be a heretic, now do you?
Give it up Vlad. Either man is responsible for his own salvation or God is. Take your pick. If man is then he deserves the credit. If man is then it’s shaky at best. If it’s all God then when He said no one can snatch them out of His hand we can be assured that if we are once saved we are always saved. What you or anyone else “feels” or “believes” is irrelevant. It’s what scripture says.
>> I made no contradiction whatsoever.<<
ROFL!!!!! You are too much.
Please tell me that was a typo.
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