Posted on 05/29/2014 3:27:32 PM PDT by dartuser
Such a position puts the plain rendering of language at the mercy of the subjectivist.
I like the final footnote of the paper:
In their efforts to limit Revelation to the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem, preterists take the beast to be Nero. But a simple reading of the text indicates that the beast is destroyed at the Second Coming of Christ (Rev. 19:20). The contradiction couldn't be clearer: How could Nero be the beast of Revelation when he perished in A.D. 68 yet Christ has yet to come?
...have no evidence.
From some lengthy discussions, I have found they mostly offer non-Bible-based arguments that are conclusory. If they do try to support their ideas with scripture, the argument becomes a non sequitur that doesn't support their conclusions.
As long as you stick with Bible-based reasoning and don't let them pull into religious sect or labeling arguments, you're fine.
I think Luke 9:27 is a perplexing text that gives preterists the fuel for their beliefs.
The definition of revelation is "to make known", reveal.
Who was it written to?(Hint: They no longer exist.)
When did John warn them the events would happen?
When was it written?(Hint: The Temple John measured was the one destroyed in AD 70.)
How old would those 2 witnesses be now?
Many of the futurist scares melt away in the context of who the revelation was intended for.
Not every prophecy....there’s a bunch that won’t happen until the end of Christ’s reign during the millennium when satan is released from the abyss such as this last rebellion in Rev 20:8
Here are others... http://www.gotquestions.org/thousand-year-reign-Christ.html
I do think that Damascus is on borrowed time however....when this happens as Isaiah 17:1 says you know we’ll be close
If Revelation is already fulfilled, then there’s not a heckuva lot of hope in the future. Technology is becoming so invasive and overpowering that we will even beyond an Orwellian police state to more like a Borg collective on steroids. Not in control of ourselves, and even the environment will be altered to the point that the surrounding environment will essentially be pure poison to anyone not in the collective.
We will literally be unwilling slaves to pure evil. So everyone better really hope the preterists are dead wrong.
The Him is Jesus, it is future, at the Rapture of the church.
God Bless You mightily.
Your statement makes no sense.
I went to the Internet and IT made oodles more sense than you did. Sorry.
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From the Internet: Question: "What is the Rapture of the church?"
Answer: The word “rapture” does not occur in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in Scripture. The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with those believers who are still alive and who will at that time also be given glorified bodies. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
The rapture will be instantaneous in nature, and we will receive glorified bodies at that time. “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). The rapture is the glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God's presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God’s intent. Rather, in regard to the rapture, God wants us to “encourage each other with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
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From Wikipedia:
Rapture is a term in Christian eschatology which refers to the "being caught up" discussed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, when the "dead in Christ" and "we who are alive and remain" will be "caught up in the clouds" to meet "the Lord in the air".
The term "Rapture" is used in at least two senses. In the pre-tribulation view, a group of people will be left behind on earth after another group literally leaves "to meet the Lord in the air." This is now the most common use of the term, especially among fundamentalist Christians and in the United States. The other, older use of the term "Rapture" is simply as a synonym for the final resurrection generally, without a belief that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. This distinction is important as some types of Christianity never refer to "the Rapture" in religious education, but might use the older and more general sense of the word "rapture" in referring to what happens during the final resurrection.
“In their efforts to limit Revelation to the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem, preterists take the beast to be Nero. But a simple reading of the text indicates that the beast is destroyed at the Second Coming of Christ (Rev. 19:20). The contradiction couldn’t be clearer: How could Nero be the beast of Revelation when he perished in A.D. 68 yet Christ has yet to come?”
Yes, that’s a bit of a pickle. The only logically consistent option is moving Christ’s return back to that era as well, and that just brings up more problems.
If Christ already returned, then why are didn’t he gather all the Christians to Him and resurrect them to everlasting life, as He promised He would do when He returned? Why didn’t He bring peace on earth, and goodwill toward man? Why didn’t he mete out vengeance to God’s enemies and tread the winepress of His wrath? For preterists trying to wrap up all the prophecies into a nice little fulfilled package, there is an awful lot of unfinished business anyone can see Christ still needs to take care of.
It also brings up the problem that, if these prophecies were fulfilled by 70 AD, why did none of the Christians alive at that time seem to notice? Why were they still speaking of these series of events culminating in Christ’s return being something in the future to look out for in the Didache, written not long after that period? I guess some of them could have been spiritually blind, but the entirety of the church? If that were true, what would that say of the utility of the prophecies, if nobody even recognized them after they were fulfilled in front of their eyes?
The second definition is a bit more comprehensive than the first, which only really deals with one kind of belief about “the rapture”. Pretty much all Christians believe in the event that some Christians call “the rapture”, but only certain types (pre or mid-tribulation rapturists) believe this:
“The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period.”
The texts which most clearly refer to the “rapture” event don’t actually describe that, it is an interpretation built from linking in other texts and applying them to this event. So, the “rapture” terminology can be confusing. Some are referring just to the event described in the Bible, and others are referring to that event, and a specific interpretation laid on top of it as well.
When Christ died on the cross, the curtain hiding the Holy of Holies was split in half, signifying the end of the temple era. There may be a new temple built, but it can not be ordained of God; Jesus finished that aspect. I read the other day that an attempt to sew another curtain is in the works; that would certainly be a denial of Jesus Christ.
I find it interesting that those who read the Genesis story of creation in 6 days rush to find the prof in spite of what “science” says, but when Jesus says “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” they look - with equal zeal - to find evidence that this is not what he really meant at all.
Many hold the view that the Church replaced Israel, so the book of Revelation must be in their minds somehow fulfilled in August of 70 AD with the Temple desolation, even though by many accounts it wasn’t written until at least 95 AD.
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9
God is not done with Israel, the Church is set upon a pedestal in the spirit, we are not the flesh that rejected him, he has made us kings and priests after the order of Melchizedek,
It is ironic about those having that viewpoint, they see a mote of someone named ‘Darby’ or ‘Lindsey’ in others and yet in their arrogance they cant see ‘Augustine’ as the beam in their own eye,
We live in a age where we have leisure time access to records, documents, various translations, unearthed biblical history, the dead sea scrolls and indexed commentaries etc., knowledge of him has now greatly increased and we travel too and fro to begin to understand these things, we are without excuse to discern the signs of the times,
But he will resolve the transgressors of the Law (Israel) at the time of the end per Daniel Chapter 9, when they come to the full with the gentiles, there is a specific timing element relating to the Jubilee restoration of all things, which he knows how and when to account for it via Leviticus Chapter 25, and this is exactly what is being shown to us in Revelation Chapters 4, 5 and 6.
The Heavens must receive Jesus, until that time as Peter stated in the book of Acts,
Then in Psalm 2 we’re told the Father will make the kingdoms of this world his footstool and give him the nations for his inheritance, which was stolen from him, the Lord of the vineyard will return and deal with the wicked tenets,
“For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: “ Isaiah 14:1
There is only the second time,
At the time of the end, ‘in those days’ the ‘day of the lord’, be sensitive to this language all throughout scripture, it sets the awareness of the timing,
“In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve. “ Jeremiah 50:20
“When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.” Psalm 102:16
And at the time of the end, ‘that day’ when the restrainer, the comforter, is no longer holding back this great evil,
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Not every prophecy....there’s a bunch that won’t happen until the end of Christ’s reign during the millennium when satan is released from the abyss such as this last rebellion in Rev 20:8
‘In their efforts to limit Revelation to the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem, preterists take the beast to be Nero. But a simple reading of the text indicates that the beast is destroyed at the Second Coming of Christ (Rev. 19:20). The contradiction couldn’t be clearer: How could Nero be the beast of Revelation when he perished in A.D. 68 yet Christ has yet to come?’
Twisting the meanings of what I read to be plain spoken foretelling of future events, events that have not yet happened, you must ask what would motivate the preterists to do this? An even more interesting question would be who or what entity is behind this?
The Bible warns of the false prophets who will attempt to misled the Faithful in the Last Days. It appears to me to be one more attempt to do just that, this is not new by the way, I have heard it before in various Bible study groups that I attended and left in short order.
Pastor JD Farrag recently pointed out that in the Latin version of the Bible the word is the Latin word for “rapture.”
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