Posted on 05/15/2014 12:50:47 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
He was at Patmos, banished for preaching the gospel, and it was Sunday, as he says:
Revelation 1
“9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,”
John was prophesying of things to come soon after he wrote his prophesy:
Revelation 1
“1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”<<<
Nice post, Pieter. It really is amazing how simple and clear the message is that Christ and John were conveying.
Philip
And so 1000 years really doesn't mean 1000 years ... but you didn't spiritualize the text?
You're a case study for 1st semester hermeneutics class.
You are at least a Protestant right?
I just pinged you as a courtesy because I was mentioning you. My only purpose was to point out to another FReeper what your agenda is, so they might save themselves the trouble of trying to have a rational discussion of Scripture with you.
"This generation" is clearly defined in the NT. It is
wicked
perverse
evil
adulterous
faithless
crooked
untoward
This generation is that generation. People of the same *character*. It is axiomatic that "this generation" won't pass until all is fulfilled (completed, as in not everything happens at once - foundational rot takes time and requires that the homeowner not pay attention).
As long as the termites remain or repairs continue, the work's not done. It's getting to the point where the only effective solution will be to burn the whole house to the ground. The wise have left the building. In essence they fled Egypt and Sodom, carrying with them a supply of unpopped popcorn.
When you get around to actually reading the text, you will see that I did not mention the so-called "millennium" in the text. I do, however, realize your purpose on this thread is not about doctrine, but disruption. Your antics are shameful, but typical futurist tactics.
>>>You're a case study for 1st semester hermeneutics class.<<<
And you need, at the minimum, a refresher course in casting aspersions. These have been laughable, so far.
>>>You are at least a Protestant right?<<<
Protestant, yes. Dispensationalist/futurist, never!
BTW, when are going to get around to enlightening us with your vast, and obviously superior knowledge of the scripture? We eagerly await.
Philip
>>>I just pinged you as a courtesy because I was mentioning you. My only purpose was to point out to another FReeper what your agenda is, so they might save themselves the trouble of trying to have a rational discussion of Scripture with you.<<<
You had me fooled. I thought the reason you continually try to smear anyone who does not adhere to your new-age doctrine is because your doctrine is not defendable?
Philip
So was Jerusalem in the first century. In fact, the Orthodox Jewish Priest and historian, Flavius Josephus, stated the following about Jerusalem of his generation:
"That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world." Wars Of The Jews V.10.5
Wow! That came from an Orthodox Jewish Priest! Jesus and the apostles said, pretty much, the same thing:
"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed." (Mat 16:4 KJV)
"And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither." (Luke 9:41 KJV)
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Phi 2:15 KJV)
>>>This generation is that generation. People of the same *character*. <<<
I cannot deny your second sentence. The Devil is also the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow (until destroyed.) The difference is, that generation received the punishment in AD 66-70: over 1.1 million slaughtered or starved to death in Jerusalem, alone! A horror of horrors! Truly the great tribulation, as Jesus prophesied.
>>>It is axiomatic that "this generation" won't pass until all is fulfilled (completed, as in not everything happens at once - foundational rot takes time and requires that the homeowner not pay attention).<<<
All the things Christ prophesied to his disciples during the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) were fulfilled during the contemporary generation of his disciples (by AD 70,) exactly like he said they would.
>>>As long as the termites remain or repairs continue, the work's not done. It's getting to the point where the only effective solution will be to burn the whole house to the ground. The wise have left the building. In essence they fled Egypt and Sodom, carrying with them a supply of unpopped popcorn.<<<
It is much easier to simply destroy Satan and his angels, and their days are numbered .
Philip
>>>His date is a little earlier than Miller’s ... its 70 AD.<<<
What is the latest prediction for the so-called rapture?
Where does it say that? Christ told his disciples he would return in their generation.
I would be sitting here for days quoting you Scripture where the 'phrase' in THAT day is used, pointing to the Lord's day. Christ did not tell His disciples He would return in their generation. He said Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; WHEN his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, THIS generation (of the parable of the fig tree) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled ......
Do you know the parable of the fig tree? Well, it is getting late in the day if you have no clue what Christ is instructing. Based upon your erroneous claim that Christ was talking to the generation of His disciples says you do not have a clue what this parable is.
IIPeter 3:8 But beloved, be NOT ignorant of this one thing, That ONE day is with The Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Peter was expecting an imminent resurrection. He was trying to console those who were expecting Christ's return even sooner.
Ah, Peter may or may not have fully understood what he penned. I happened to believe he knew exactly what he was being instructed to write. Because of IIPeter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Now wonder what prophets is Peter talking about that that wrote what Peter wrote in this IIPeter 3?
What John is shown in this book covers all three heaven/earth ages. Again IIPeter 3. John wrote down what he was given/shown and it in large part is unfolding while some are sleeping.
You have no proof of that, nor can you find any. The so-called "dispensational ages" do not exist, except in the imaginative words of the new-age inventors of dispensationalism.
What do you mean I have no proof. Peter said what the majority are willingly ignorant of .... and he said in the introduction that the holy prophets also wrote... Have you never read? Genesis 1:2 Describes this flood Peter writes about IIPeter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
that by the word of God (holy prophets) the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then WAS, being overflowed with water, perished; .....
Peter is NOT talking about Noah's flood as he already addressed that flood in IIPeter 2:5.
Daniel, long before John penned the book of Revelation, did not understand what he was told to write down. He was told Daniel 12:9 And he said, 'Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.....
Interesting now isn't it that your subject 'the sealing of the 144,000'. Is it a coincidence God sealed up the book of Daniel to Daniel and here we are 'days' later and the subject is the sealing of 144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel? HMMMMM and you claim things that are just not true.
Peyton, don't let Dartuser trick you with his sour grapes. I also believe in a second, general resurrection for the rest of us, like this:
"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." (Rom 14:10-12 KJV)
According to Revelation 20, the second, general resurrection occurs after Satan is defeated. There will be no signs, that I am aware of.
Philip
Sorry Sunday worship service will not fit what John penned. One must compartmentalize the rest of the Scripture to make such a unfounded claim. There are 7 trumps and given what John writes regarding 'a great voice, as of a trumpet,' is part of the prophecy. Christ returns at the 7th trump or as Paul calls it the last trump, wherein all flesh shall be changed. ICorinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (notice Paul says 'all' not just Christians)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump (that would be number 7) for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shal be changed......
This is a very basic sign, that so long as we are in flesh bodies Christ has not return for His harvest.
sorry to disappoint you ... date setting is unbiblical ... and weve been over that before ...
This number is used in the Bible to indicate a large number. It should not be taken literally.
I seem to recall there were several so-called "Day's of the Lord." But my question was related to the second part of your earlier statement.
>>>Christ did not tell His disciples He would return in their generation.<<<
He most certainly did, in several different ways.
>>>He said Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; WHEN his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, THIS generation (of the parable of the fig tree) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled ......
Do you know the parable of the fig tree? <<<
Of course I do. Jesus told his disciples that when "THEY" see those signs, the time was even at the doors. The very next verse is where he told his disciples those things would be fulfilled within "THEIR" generation, and they were.
>>>Well, it is getting late in the day if you have no clue what Christ is instructing.<<<
Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension? You are completely ignorning the plain words of Jesus Christ. It is because of your feel a need to spiritualize them?
>>>Based upon your erroneous claim that Christ was talking to the generation of His disciples says you do not have a clue what this parable is.<<<
So, when Jesus said to his disciples:
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Mat 16:27-28 KJV)
He didn't mean it? When Jesus said to his disciples:
"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Mat 10:23 KJV)
He didn't mean it? When Jesus said to his disciples:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:32 KJV)
He didn't mean it?
No offense, but I believe the plain words of Jesus. It your intent is to spiritualize the time frame to fit a preconceived agenda, you will not get any sympathy from me.
>>>"IIPeter 3:8 But beloved, be NOT ignorant of this one thing, That ONE day is with The Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.<<<
What was the context of that verse? What was Peter trying to convey?
>>>Ah, Peter may or may not have fully understood what he penned. I happened to believe he knew exactly what he was being instructed to write. Because of IIPeter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Now wonder what prophets is Peter talking about that that wrote what Peter wrote in this IIPeter 3? Again IIPeter 3. John wrote down what he was given/shown and it in large part is unfolding while some are sleeping. <<<
I don't understand what you are trying to convey. How do I know it is not you that is sleeping?
>>>What John is shown in this book covers all three heaven/earth ages.<<<
That is new-age, dispensational gibberish. The new covenant age, which began on or about the ascension of Christ, lasts for ever:
"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." (Eph 3:21 KJV)
>>>What do you mean I have no proof. Peter said what the majority are willingly ignorant of .... and he said in the introduction that the holy prophets also wrote... Have you never read? Genesis 1:2 Describes this flood Peter writes about IIPeter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God (holy prophets) the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then WAS, being overflowed with water, perished; ..... Peter is NOT talking about Noah's flood as he already addressed that flood in IIPeter 2:5. Daniel, long before John penned the book of Revelation, did not understand what he was told to write down. He was told Daniel 12:9 And he said, 'Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.....<<<
The subject was the meaningless "dispensational ages" that were created out of thin air in the last century by a charlatan named John Nelson Darby, and promoted by another charlatan named Cyrus Ingerson Schofield.
>>>Interesting now isn't it that your subject 'the sealing of the 144,000'. Is it a coincidence God sealed up the book of Daniel to Daniel and here we are 'days' later and the subject is the sealing of 144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel? HMMMMM and you claim things that are just not true.<<<
I really have trouble following your arguments. Would you please attempt to present your case more coherently?
In the meantime, recall that Daniel's book was sealed (Dan 12:4,) while John was instructed NOT to seal his book (Rev 22:10.) Anyone who has not noticed the significance of that has not been paying attention.
Philip
How do you feel about so many dispensationalist/futurists exploiting "end times" doctrine over the years to get rich? What do you think about Mark Hitckcock's book, "Blood Moons Rising: Bible Prophecy, Israel, and the Four Blood Moons?"
Philip
When the flesh body dies the soul/spirit intellect returns to the Maker that sent it, there is no reason to not consider the disciples ‘saw’ the planting of the fig tree. We are the ‘fig tree generation’. It was planted when the nations made Israel a ‘nation’ back in the 1940’s. That is why the description is made of branch yet tender, and putteth forth leaves... ye know that summer is nigh: What happens at the end of summer, why, a harvest of course.
Then again there is that parable of the 10 virgins .... half ran out of oil (truth) and were sent on their way to buy themselves some oil.
There was only one generation he was pointing to: his own. All other interpretations require spiritualization of the time context.
>>>When the flesh body dies the soul/spirit intellect returns to the Maker that sent it, there is no reason to not consider the disciples ‘saw’ the planting of the fig tree.<<<
That is quite imaginative! But, in reality, all the disciples did was ask him a few simple questions, and he answered them.
>>>We are the ‘fig tree generation’. <<<
Every generation thinks they are "it!" LOL!
>>>It was planted when the nations made Israel a ‘nation’ back in the 1940’s.<<<
I doubt God had anything to do with the creation of that secular nation. There is no biblical support for its creation. However, false interpretations, like yours, have made some people lots of money. Just ask the false prophet, Hal Lindsey.
>>>That is why the description is made of branch yet tender, and putteth forth leaves... ye know that summer is nigh: What happens at the end of summer, why, a harvest of course.<<<
Jesus was simply referring to the many events that would occur up to and including the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.
>>>Then again there is that parable of the 10 virgins .... half ran out of oil (truth) and were sent on their way to buy themselves some oil.<<<
There were lots of parables. How do you interpret that one? When did it occur?
How about the parable of the Vineyard (Mat 21:33-46?) Who were the husbandmen that were destroyed, and who were the new husbandmen?
How about the parable of the Wedding Feast (Mat 22:2-7?) Who were the murderers that the king slew, and which city did he burn up?
Philip
Phil believes in Preterism—nevermind that Matthew 24 is coming to pass before our very eyes now that Israel is a nation again.
He thinks Isaiah 17 already happened and that Antiochus Epiphanes is the dread A/C!!!!!!
Yep more fruitful to talk to those walls......
Roman War Criminal is appropriately named, and has shown in this forum that he is not a straight shooter. For example, I am not a preterist: I don't claim to be, nor do I fit the definition. But when the War Criminal loses an argument, he gets vengeance by smearing and fabrication.
>>>He thinks Isaiah 17 already happened<<<
I certainly believe that, as do maybe a thousand biblical scholars and commentators over the centuries. Only new-age cults have to push previously-fulfilled Old Testament prophecies into the future to prop up their shaky (and shady) man-made doctrines.
>>>…and that Antiochus Epiphanes is the dread A/C!!!!!!<<<
That is what I mean about the War Criminal: you cannot trust him to quote accurately. He is inclined to fabricate. I have not claimed anyone was/is "the antichrist," because there is no single "antichrist" mentioned in the Bible. In fact, anyone who can read soon learns that everyone in the entire world, except for Christians, is antichrist.
Frankly, I believe the propagation of the "antichrist" myth is little more than a money-making racket: a scam. Fortunate for the scammers, there are plenty of insecure people out there willing to buy most any book with the word "Antichrist" on the label, even if their kids go hungry.
The War Criminal can fill you in on how to join the "Anti-Christ of the Month Book Club," so you can keep up to date on who the current Anti-Christ is. LOL! Just kidding, but barely.
>>>Yep more fruitful to talk to those walls......<<<
Unless you want to discuss/debate the Bible. You certainly have noticed that the War Criminal seems to know almost nothing about the Bible: at least nothing he can defend with other scripture.
Philip
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