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Is this the Holy Grail?
The Deacon's Bench ^ | April 1, 2014 | Deacon Greg Kandra

Posted on 04/01/2014 11:54:00 AM PDT by NYer

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To: Bobalu
According to Christian theologians and their Aramaic texts St. Joseph was not a carpenter. A carpenter was a PROFESSION and Joseph was a poor man. He did work with "hard substances."

What he probably did was work in the limestone mines which abound over there. They still do today.
Working in a mine as a common laborer would, in the minds of most theologians, be more of a job for the poor. Jesus was part of his family so HE too probably worked in the many mines.

From Google:
The highlands of Israel and the Palestinian territories are primarily underlain by sedimentary limestone, dolomite and dolomitic limestone. The stone quarried for building purposes, ranging in color from white to pink, yellow and tawny, is known collectively as Jerusalem stone.

Soft Senonian limestone is found to the east of Jerusalem, and has long been used as an inexpensive building material. Stone of the Cenomanian layers, known in Arabic as mizzi ahmar and mizzi yahudz, is far more durable than Senonian limestone, but is very hard and was expensive to quarry using pre-modern methods.

Turonian layers yield mizze helu and meleke, the most prized building stones. The thin layered mizze helu is easily quarried and worked.

Meleke is soft and easy to chisel, yet hardens with exposure to the atmosphere and becomes highly durable. It was used for the great public buildings of antiquity, and for the construction of the Islamic period city walls and buildings.

61 posted on 04/01/2014 3:16:38 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cotton1706

Ahh.. sorry, missed the reference.


62 posted on 04/01/2014 3:17:27 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: GeronL
The tiny mark on the bottom that says Made In China makes it more authentic.

:o) GOOD one.

63 posted on 04/01/2014 3:18:06 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: MrEdd
The cup would indeed have been the cup of a Carpenter.

Perhaps it's time to read the article?

64 posted on 04/01/2014 3:20:04 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Cicero
It could be. The medieval gold trimming and the jewels were added afterward. Underneath, you can see that it’s just a plain ceramic chalice, of the kind used at the time of Jesus.

I was sort of thinking the same thing, as those jewels looked tacked one. USUALLY expensive gemstones are embedded deeply and securely INTO the object.

However, my knowledge of grails and other EXPENSIVE things is very limited. I couldn't point out a CHALICE if my life depended on it.
I DO know expensive stones worn when in jewelry....THAT I know.

65 posted on 04/01/2014 3:21:48 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
The "grail" would be fancy as it was used for a special occasion. But, all those jewels?

A fancy grail? With gold and jewels? Did you actually read the article or simply look at the photo and then post your comment? Had you read the article, you would have learned that the cup is made of alabaster and dates to the 1st century. The gold and jewels are part of a 2nd cup that holds the original. Did you not catch this?

66 posted on 04/01/2014 3:30:42 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: D-fendr

It wasn’t his cup.

I used to work as a tour guide to Christian religious sites, in Israel, so oddly enough I am very familiar with this.

The Holy Grail was (allegedly) the Seder cup of Joseph of Arithmea.

By all historical accounts, he was quite wealthy, and his Seder cup would have undoubtedly been a fine piece, probably silver.


67 posted on 04/01/2014 3:31:28 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: NYer

MY bad. I’ll be more careful from now on.


68 posted on 04/01/2014 3:50:58 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cotton1706; Zathras; All

“That is not the cup of a carpenter!”

Guys, read the article. It’s two simple stone cups which were combined with the gold long after they were made.


69 posted on 04/01/2014 4:57:26 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: Jewbacca

thanks Jewbacca,

>>”The Holy Grail was (allegedly) the Seder cup of Joseph of Arithmea.”

So we could have a theory for both a simple cup and an expensive one.

I think we’d need to go more into the research and evidence used here.


70 posted on 04/01/2014 5:12:56 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: cotton1706

are you Indiana Jones?


71 posted on 04/01/2014 6:01:38 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: NYer

No thanks. Already got one.


72 posted on 04/01/2014 6:10:57 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: cotton1706
That is not the cup of a carpenter!

The actual "grail cup" is encased in the gold and jewels. . . it's made out of onyx. . . Stone. When Jesus might have used it, it looked like a stone bowl. That COULD have been the cup used by a carpenter at a home of a wealthier man hosting a meal.

73 posted on 04/01/2014 9:26:57 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Cicero
It could be. The medieval gold trimming and the jewels were added afterward. Underneath, you can see that it’s just a plain ceramic chalice, of the kind used at the time of Jesus.

Not ceramic. . . Stone. Onyx.

74 posted on 04/01/2014 9:29:34 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
I am always skeptical of relics;Gibbon reported enough claimed pieces of “The True Cross” to make a sizable wooden fleet. There has always been lots of relics to stimulate donations by poor souls.

Gibbon was being facetious or truly did not know what he was talking about. An inventory of relics done recently that took measurements of the relics of the "True Cross" found that there is sufficient surviving wood (if all are genuine, which is doubtful) to only reconstruct about two-thirds of the Patibulem (the horizontal cross piece). The Roman practice was to leave the Stripes (the upright posts) of their crosses permanently in place and only requiring the condemned person to carry the 100 pound cross piece to his or her execution site. The anti-relic remark by Gibbon was simply not based on fact, but there was a thriving market in fake relics for gullible pilgrims.

75 posted on 04/01/2014 9:56:20 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: dangerdoc
Beside the point, but I was taught that riding a donkey at that time was a sign of his nobility, not poverty.

Exactly right. In fact, it is agreed by most historians that Jesus' arrival on a donkey was to mock the high priests. This was enhanced by the throngs of people laying palms before him. He was entering the Holy City for the Passover Festival as an actual King would. It was the beginning of his week of agitation in Jerusalem. It's the beginning of what got him killed.

Jesus was an activist (of the good kind). He was a leader, a man of action. He got the job done.

76 posted on 04/02/2014 6:00:52 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (My whimsical litany of satyric prose and avarice pontification of wisdom demonstrates my concinnity.)
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To: NYer
There is no Holy Grail...Jesus used a non-descript cup...It may have been something like a sea shell...The cup reference in the bible is more to the contents of the vessel than the actual vessel...

Leave it to the Catholic church...They invent a bejeweled golden chalice and then spend centuries looking for it...HaHa...It never existed...But I'll bet they come up with one anyway...

77 posted on 04/02/2014 12:25:28 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: NYer

(Shakes head)


78 posted on 04/02/2014 2:53:21 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: NYer

Was on the way out the door and didn’t read the whole article, my bad.
Try to correct that behavior in the future.


79 posted on 04/04/2014 3:12:56 PM PDT by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: Jewbacca

Thank you for that interesting information on a Seder cup.


80 posted on 04/13/2014 10:40:10 PM PDT by Melian ("Where will wants not, a way opens.")
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