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Pope Says, Jesus 'Pretends'
Fr. Ray Blake's Blog ^ | 12/2/13 | Fr. Ray Blake

Posted on 12/02/2013 7:06:42 PM PST by marshmallow

Jes·u·it·i·cal

adjective

of or pertaining to Jesuits or Jesuitism.
( often lowercase ) practicing casuistry or equivocation;
using subtle or oversubtle reasoning; crafty; sly; intriguing.

Or as the say you can take the Jesuit out of the Jesuits but not the Jesuit out of the Jesuit.

On Saturday, Radio Vatican said Pope Francis had said,

“In the Gospel, Jesus does not become angry, but pretends to when the disciples do not understand him,”

The ancient Fathers would baulk at such a suggestion, I can't think of one who would be be comfortable with the idea that the Gospels did not reveal the plain meaning of what Jesus said and did, it is only the Jesuits of the 17th century who would begin to suggest otherwise.

There is no suggestion in the Gospels that Jesus feigns, or pretends anything. On the contrary he is the 'Truth'. He says, "Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no'". His Kingdom stands in contradistinction to that of the kingdom of the Father of Lies.

If Jesus really does 'pretend' to be angry but isn't really what else does he pretend? Is he really just 'acting' in other emotional responses, when he sighs, when he weeps, when he rails against the Pharisees. Is he really grinning broadly when he calls Simon Peter, 'Satan'?

I do not agree with Pope Francis on this, we do not need smiley or angry face marks to interpret the Gospels. Perhaps this says more about the Pope than it does about Jesus. Rather than Jesus pretending, is Pope Francis 'pretending'? After all if one believes the Son of God can and does 'pretend', why shouldn't the Pope? And if the Pope can 'pretend', why not the Church?

(Excerpt) Read more at marymagdalen.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: TNMountainMan

I’m not impressed that the pope is teaching subsidiarity very well, even though he name-drops it.

The Financial Times article quotes the catechism’s already shaky definition, but the Pope says this: “’It is the responsibility of the State to promote the common good of society.’ Based on principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, and full committed to political dialogue and consensus building, it plays a fundamental role, one which cannot be delegated, in working for the integral development of all.”

His use is almost the exact antithesis of subsidiarity. Subsidiarity DEMANDS that the responsibility BELONGS to the lower levels of organization and CANNOT be usurped by the state!

SUBSIDIARITY:1. a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over; 2. the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level.

The only way that is consistent with the claim that the state cannot delegate responsibility is that the state has no responsibility to delegate!

And he writes with an ambiguity which is even worse: “It is the responsibility of the State” is orthodox because one could interpret it as meaning, “One responsibility of the State is...” but who wouldn’t read that as saying that the responsibility is the State’s, as opposed to anyone else’s?

When he writes so tragically poorly, he welcomes criticism. And Catholic apologists are forced to abandon citing him as an appeal to an authority.


121 posted on 12/03/2013 7:50:58 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus; TNMountainMan
Repeat After Me: Subsidiarity & Solidarity
Subsidiarity and Human Dignity
Does the USCCB Understand Subsidiarity?
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Principle of Subsidiarity
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] Subsidiarity Over Social Justice
What is the USCCB’s problem with subsidiarity?
Subsidiarity: Where Justice and Freedom Coexist
Health reform still full of thorny problems for Catholics (Vasa comes out for subsidiarity)
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Subsidiarity, [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Catholic Word of the Day: SUBSIDIARITY, 06-11-09
122 posted on 12/03/2013 8:01:21 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NKP_Vet
What evangelical “church” believes in NO ABORITON OF ANY KIND, FOR ANY REASON. NO WOMEN PREACHERS, AND WILL NOT ORDAIN OPENLY HOMOSEXUAL MEN.I don't know of any evangelical body of believers who condone:

1) Abortion,

2) Women pastor-teachers. or

3) Ordination of homosexuals.

Evangelism is a type of spiritual gift of communication given to some believers by God the Holy Spirit to communicate His Word to unbelievers.

A similar spiritual gift is given to others to communicate His Word to believers, also known as the gift of pastor-teacher.

Where described in the New Testament, both gifts are only indicated as being given to men. Ordination by a group of believers doesn't confer these spiritual gifts to another believer anymore than voting on a person's sainthood can confer salvation. These are still the domain and reign of God Himself, not humanity.

In regards to homosexuality, as with sodomy and effeminate behavior, we also understand such persons will not inherit the kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9).

Perhaps as fellow believers in Christ we can agree to place Christ before any group of believers and rely on Him before we rely on other institutions or upon provision made by human good instead of what He provides by Divine Good.

123 posted on 12/04/2013 2:36:28 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Salvation
Her body and soul is alive in heaven. Otherwise, don’t you think they would have discovered her tomb?

Surely you aren't trying to pass this off as LOGICAL?

124 posted on 12/04/2013 3:23:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: armydoc
I find it fascinating that a Catholic could be comfortable dismissing or even ridiculing a statement by the Vicar of Christ.

Hee hee...

Watch THIS!!!



Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

125 posted on 12/04/2013 3:26:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Tell me your not biased, please.

More LOGIC?

126 posted on 12/04/2013 3:30:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
I noticed you posted some sources but didn’t on others....hmmm. It would sure be nice if the sources could be live links.

I've noticed that you've NOT commented on the ones with GOOD links...

127 posted on 12/04/2013 3:31:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: marshmallow

I heard someone say one time that when Jesus wept he was weeping for the two mourning sisters and what they must be feeling when their brother died. What? These both seem to be attempts to dehumanize him. He felt what we feel. No need to create distance between us and him in that way. Just makes him hard to understand and intellectualizes.


128 posted on 12/04/2013 3:54:11 AM PST by firebrand
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To: Telepathic Intruder

He might not have known about Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank and all the other regulations. He is just a tad unsophisticated in that way. We have plenty of fetters. I still think he was really trying to make people think.


129 posted on 12/04/2013 4:00:17 AM PST by firebrand
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To: Arthur McGowan

You might be thinking of Maryknoll, or perhaps Times Square Church. Both eschew holding wealth and pass everything received on to the missions, except for what is needed to maintain their operation.


130 posted on 12/04/2013 4:16:21 AM PST by firebrand
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To: Cvengr; NKP_Vet

About that known homosexual priests thing......

Homosexuality and Roman Catholic priests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholic_priests

And foreseeing the denouncement of the source, the wiki article provides a plethora of sources at the end of the article for further confirmation.

Vatican Won’t Ban Gay Priests
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2005/10/07/vatican-wont-ban-gay-priests/

And then there’s the current pope’s latest ramblings.

All in all, there are homosexual Catholic priests which the Catholic church still accepts as ordained practicing priests. No Catholic is in any position to throw any stones at any other denomination for having homosexual clergy.

Not every non-Catholic church ordains gay clergy as some liberal denominations so so broad brushing non-Catholics as doing so is not accurate.

However, I have also noted that in general, when a member of the clergy is found to be in sexual sin of any kind, it usually results in having their credentials revoked, something the Catholic church does not do.


131 posted on 12/04/2013 6:52:32 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom
They have a pope who can't be trusted when he opens his mouth...and an organization...within...who is deliberately engaging in deceit by changing what the pope really said to deceive the masses for the purpose of damage control.

Perhaps he should be renamed pope Joseph (as in Biden). ;)

132 posted on 12/04/2013 7:55:35 AM PST by lupie
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To: lupie

You’re being kind.


133 posted on 12/04/2013 8:13:37 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: armydoc
Poverty, its causes and our responsibility to address it does not involve morals??

Of course, I said nothing like this.

What I said was that the Pope can hold erroneous opinions about the causes of poverty. And he can publish them. Many Popes have.

134 posted on 12/04/2013 10:25:43 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: metmom

The only sodomite priests are the ones that are found out after they have been ordained. Then, like any other priest they are expected to remain celibate. If they can’t, just like any other priest, they are not allowed to remain in the priesthood. The Catholic Church will not allow in the priesthood any man that says he is a homosexual. The question is asked “do you have any homosexual tendencies”. Some answer no. If they answer yes they are not allowed in the priesthood. In otherwords they lie their way into the priesthood.

This is 190 degrees the opposite of the Episcopalian Church that openly accepts homosexuals AND lesbian women into the clergy and makes no distinction at all with their perverted lifestyle. This is the reason that thousands of episcopalian converted flock to the Catholic Church each year. This is also the same reason that the Angelican Church in England is about dead. Their liberal stance on women ordaination, women clergy and homosexual clergy. Like the American arm of the Angelican Church, the Episcopalians will also “marry” sodomites.


135 posted on 12/04/2013 10:51:37 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: metmom

“However, I have also noted that in general, when a member of the clergy is found to be in sexual sin of any kind, it usually results in having their credentials revoked, something the Catholic church does not do”.

You seem to be forgetting about Jimmy Swaggart who got on national TV and started crying when it was found out he had been running around with prostitutes. Last time I looked the Jimmy Swaggart ministries are alive and well and doing good.

Or how about Ted Haggard, the protestant preacher that had thousands and thousands of followers in the Denver area. He was found out to be snorting crack and having homosexual sex with his boyfriends, but last time I checked he was still preaching.

And let’s not forget Eddie Lee Long,the senior pastor of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, a megachurch in Georgia. Accused of sodomite sex with countless young male members of his parish. When the story broke pastor Eddie told them all to go to hell and kept on preaching.


136 posted on 12/04/2013 11:14:04 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Good post, but no answer?


137 posted on 12/04/2013 11:19:00 AM PST by Salvation
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To: Salvation
I noticed you posted some sources but didn’t on others....hmmm. It would sure be nice if the sources could be live links.

It would be nice is you notices the ^ as referring to the last referenced source, which the site i directed you to for more tells you. But i forgot, many RCs will refuse to look at sites that impugn Rome. And even Catholic sites are to be dismissed when they do so. Yet this would include the Vatican's.

138 posted on 12/04/2013 7:33:39 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Salvation; metmom; Elsie
I also noted that most of your sources were non-Catholic or even anti-Catholic. Tell me your not biased, please.

That itself is what is biased, as you cannot allow any validity for any source that impugns Rome, and even dismiss them as being anti-Catholic instead! What bondage! Meanwhile even Catholic polls or those which were sponsored by Catholic orgs concur overall with the rest.

139 posted on 12/04/2013 7:33:57 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: NKP_Vet; CynicalBear
So one more time. And once more, I could give a rats ass what some skewed poll says.

Of course you must dismiss it, as devoted RCs must reject all such evidence that impugns Rome. But I think you evidence you do care, by resorting to the typical damage control of impugning the credibility of the polls.

As long as Rome overall treats as members those whom you exclude as being so, then it is your assertions that are "skewed."

What evangelical “church” believes in NO...

Not Rome, as it is the kind of church that ignores that what one does constitutes what they really believe, and like the Pharisees, "they say, and do not," (Matthew 23:3) but treat even known public liberals as members in life and in death. In so doing she provides the interpretation of what she means by her teachings.

Meanwhile, what evangelical churches actually teach is seen by evangelicals being overall far less liberal and far more conservative and unified in moral views than Catholics.

However, such preach Christ, not a church as you must, and thus it is you whom must defend your church, as hard as that is (besides official doctrines) in the light of what it really believes.

And if you think the media that constantly blasts the Catholic Church

Actually, evangelicals have been the greatest threat to their immoral and liberal agenda, versus a church that mouths conservative values but largely fosters the opposite, and thus it has been evangelicalism that has been treated as the greatest threat by both liberals and Rome.

Meanwhile, RCs have well evidenced here that they have a persecution complex, overreacting to even the slightest thing that seems to impugn their fantasy of a holy church, and often unwilling or incapable of objective judgment.

Lastly, ignoring the morons that call themselves Catholic and voted for Obama, the number of devout practicing Catholics that abide by their church’s teachings, voted for Romney 60% to 42 for Obama.

And that is supposed to show Rome as a strongly conservative church? Besides the fact that the church you trumpet does not exist, as it does not treat liberal RCs are morons, a mere 18% difference btwn the two candidates hardly commends "real" RCs as conservative, esp. when one was the most radically liberal Democrat ever to run for the office.

. The number of Catholics that voted for the conservative candidate dwarfs any protestant denomination in the country.

That is deceptive sophistry, as it is not the numerical quantities which matters but percentages, and by using the former you can assert they provided more conservatives vote than any single Prot denomination even if the majority of Catholics voted liberal, as Rome is the single largest denom, even if only constituting about 25% of Americans. . Meanwhile, it was 80% of white evangelicals - those who most esteem Scripture as the Word of God and supreme authority - who voted for Romney, more so than Mormons!

Would you use this same method, versus percentage, for how many priestly pedophiles Rome has provided? Honestly?

More for the file:


140 posted on 12/04/2013 7:36:17 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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