CCM MUSICIANS LOVE SECULAR ROCK: Reasons "Christian" Rock isn't Christian at all!

Fundamental Baptist Information Service ^ | June 30, 2004 | David Cloud

[RaceBannon]

CCM MUSICIANS LOVE SECULAR ROCK

Updated June 30, 2004 (first published June 27, 2001) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

One of the problems with Contemporary Christian Music is its refusal to separate from the world. God's Word is very plain about this matter. "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4). Separation from the world is not an option; it is a solemn obligation. Most CCM musicians ignore this warning and remain intimately connected to the world by their love for ungodly secular music.

Some parents and church leaders are of the opinion that Christian rock is safe for kids because at least they are not listening to secular rock or rap or whatever. This argument makes no sense in light of the fact that most CCM musicians are themselves not separated from secular rock. Not only do most CCM musicians listen to secular rock, but they perform secular rock on their albums and in their concerts. Thus young people who are hooked into CCM remain associated with the secular music scene.

While some defenders of Contemporary Christian Music warn about the evil in secular rock, they turn right around and say that it is fine to listen to Christian rock. Steve Peters does this in his 1998 book Truth about Rock. This is a strange position because the Christian rock musicians themselves are certainly listening to every form of secular rock.

Consider some examples of this:

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Hey, your bible is printed on the same kind of paper that is used for pornography.****

I would say the inverse, that pornography is printed on the paper used for Bibles.
:)


***A paperback Bible is indisguishable in visible style from a paperback porn novel.***

In most cases the cover makes it clear what the book contains.



***It is the message between the covers, not the medium itself that determines whether it is glorifying to God.***

So do you think that instrumental music is incapable of carrying or expressing a message in and of itself and that it is just a "container" for the message found in lyrics?

[Corin Stormhands]

In most cases the cover makes it clear what the book contains.

Didn't you ever see The Shawshank Redemption?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***In most cases the cover makes it clear what the book contains.***


... unless one is trying to deceive.

[Corin Stormhands]

well, that would be the point...you just don't know do you?

;-)

[Alex Murphy]

... unless one is trying to deceive.

As the author of this thread's article did, at least concerning Phil Keaggy, right?

[P-Marlowe]

So do you think that instrumental music is incapable of carrying or expressing a message in and of itself and that it is just a "container" for the message found in lyrics?

Instrumental music can contribute to the development of a "mood." The surroundings can also contribute to the mood, so the same music in one venue can create a different mood than the same music in another venue. Music is part of an overall sensory experience. For instance an augmented forth can be soothingly lyrical or unnervingly dissonant depending on the chord before it and the chord after it, the percussion, the melody and the setting in which it is played.

I would say that there is no such thing as inherently godly music (although an argument could be made for baroque), nor is there any such thing as inherently satanic music (although an argument could be made for hip-hop).

Music (chords, melodies, percussion) is nothing more than noise. Just as paint is nothing more than oil and pigments. Music, like paint, is what the artist makes it. It is the whole picture that we must view. Not a single brush stroke on a huge piece of canvas.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***As the author of this thread's article did, at least concerning Phil Keaggy, right?***


You know nobdysfool was talking so much about that quote that I decided to go back and look at it...


"PHIL KEAGGY also has no separation from the world in his music. He performs an unholy combination of secular rock and Christian rock/folk, and those who listen to his music are drawn toward worldly rock & roll. On his 1993 Crimson and Blue album, for example, he pays "homage to The Beatles" with several of the songs."


The contention that "He performs an unholy combination of secular rock and Christian rock/folk" should be easy enough to verify.

Do you know if he performs secular rock in his shows?

If he does perform secular rock do you feel this is appropriate for a "ministry"?

Do you see how a minister paying "homage to The Beatles" could lead to confusion on the part of young listeners and possibly be seen by them as an endorsement of the Beatles (and all their garbage)?


The contention, "those who listen to his music are drawn toward worldly rock & roll." while possibly being true is much harder to prove on anything other than an anecdotal level.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Instrumental music can contribute to the development of a "mood."***

You see, I think it goes further than that and can clearly express an emotion. Granted, it's not the notes - it's the way the music is played.

And granted also that it is culturally conditioned - i.e. a native of some obscure island in the S. Pacific, upon hearing Bach for the first time would have no culturally conditioned response to it but rather just a gut reaction to the "noise" (thought he would probably like Bach and would probably dislike Stryper because of harmony and dissonance).

And that is an important point. Whether we like it or not we are culturally conditioned to associate certain styles of music with certain lifestyles/behaviours/attitudes. That is a factor with CCM proponents refuse to face up to.




A verse I've alwasy found interesting in this regard is...

"But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same."

You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates." - Deut 12

Now of course the verse doesn't strictly apply to this situation - but the principle well may. "You must not worship the LORD your God in their way". By using the vehicle of secular rock (because the world owned rock before the Church picked it up) are we using the world's ways to worship the LORD God?



***Music, like paint, is what the artist makes it. It is the whole picture that we must view. Not a single brush stroke on a huge piece of canvas.***

"Music" is neutral, but music played in a certain style and with the musicians emotions is already a long way towards being a "whole picture". And the lyrics are often like the painting's title tacked on at the end.

[HarleyD]

"Music is nothing more than organized noise."

You must have heard me play the piano. :O)

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

In all fairness, it's possible that SOME Christians may have cause to stumble if they listen to Christian Rock, especially if they previously came out of a background of satanic rock--kind of analogous to an alcoholic drinking "NA" beer--some alcoholics can do it, some can't and get a craving for the "real thing."

Thank you for responding, i thought the reference got lost in the exchange. Yes, your observation is quite correct. It is not, however, limited to music. Let's expand the thought to other areas (you've made a good beginning at that).

• Some stumble at some of the clothing styles worn by others (usually by th opposite sex)
• Some stumble at the amount of food consumed at Church-sponsoured events (e.g., the congregational "Pot Luck")
• Some stumble at the wine used in the Communion service used in churches that do that (akin to your example)
• Some stumble at the present "infomality" of the worship service in recent decades (in some of the congregations i've been in, the pastor does not DARE minister without a robe)
• Some stumble at the idea that instrumental music is played at all in a worship service (The covenantors, Known to day as the Reformed Presbyterian Church are the largest example)
• Some stumble at the affluence (whether real or merely percieved) of certain members of a congregation, and how their affluence is used.

There are many other examples. Was anything in those examples above Inherently evil? Not hardly.

But preaching that it's just bad in general is also analogous to the recovering alcoholic who runs around and insists EVERYBODY stop drinking because HE can't handle it.

Exactly! The error is based on the old Emerson line..."what is true for me is true for everyone"..., which rather begs the question of whether or not it was "true" at all. In terms of one's Christianity, the argument becomes..."If it caused ME to stumble, then it will cause everyone to stumble"..., which again begs the question, did it REALLY cause anyone to stumble. In other words;

Are we sinners because we are tempted and lured away, or do we sin because we are sinners, looking for any excuse to indulge what ever lust our depraved natures finds appealing, and using any excuse to rationalise away OUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY?

It is an interesting question, and much hinges on the answer.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Are we sinners because we are tempted and lured away, or do we sin because we are sinners, looking for any excuse to indulge what ever lust our depraved natures finds appealing, and using any excuse to rationalise away OUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY?

It is an interesting question, and much hinges on the answer.***



But even more hinges on the answer to this:

As Christians, how do we best oppose our sinful nature?

[P-Marlowe]

You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates." - Deut 12

Ok I'll worship God in the way that he commands:

Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

"Ok guys... blues riff in B, watch me for the changes and uh...try to keep up."

[al_c]

STEPHEN CURTIS CHAPMAN recorded some of the songs on his Greatest Hits album live at Abbey Road Studios in London, the studio where the Beatles recorded their albums.

Oh my gosh! He'll burn in hell for sure! /sarcasm

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Ok I'll worship God in the way that he commands:***


I see no prohibition against the use of instruments.

But I doubt the Lord would want Israel to use the same tunes the Canaanites used in their debased worship...

[P-Marlowe]

But I doubt the Lord would want Israel to use the same tunes the Canaanites used in their debased worship...

Do you have a scripture reference for what tunes are acceptable? What tunes were the Cannanites using?

If the Cannanites used a I V IV chord progression, would the Israelites be forbidden from using that progression?

[Grammy]

Well, I have read through this entire thread, and I think I may have found the bottom line of your dislike for CCM.

As background, we are in the music business, and know many of the people you have listed here. Some of them are personal friends, some are just work acquittance. We were there at the beginning of Christian contemporary music. We know where it started, and know where it is now.

Here is what I see as your gripe. You look to these people to be preachers. Saints leading people to Jesus.

Guess what.... THEY AREN'T!!! They are musicians. Entertainers!!!

Some of them love the Lord, and are called to lead others to Him with their music. Others are as you say, scumbags, who in reality don't even know the Lord. Most are just people. They sin every day, just like I do. They need Jesus every day, just like I do.

The Christian music business is no different than the secular music business. In other words, it sucks. The problem is that you expect better than that of people of the Lord, and so you are more disappointed. Add to that the gossip that happens around all celebrities, and you are soundly ruined to the music. Unfortunately some of the gossip doesn't tell all the story. I know about one divorce that happened because the spouse was a (so called Christian) drug using physical abuser. The one who really was a Christian has taken a hit to the reputation in order not to malign the ex.

But you forget that these are just people, using their talents to glorify God as best they can. Not perfectly (for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God) but as best they can.

My concern is that you would let something so silly as what music has influenced someone to cause you to cast stones at them and call them non-Christians. That my friend is a very Pharisaical attitude. It is one that Satan uses to divide people.

Why not let the Spirit guide you as to what should be listened to and what to avoid. Why not let some of this music minister to me? You are right, some of it is really trash, but others lead me to ponder my Lord and His goodness. Southern Gospel however is torment to me, straight from the pits of Hell. And it mentions Jesus in every line!

[EvaClement]

thanks for the link,

http://www.holyobserver.com/detail.php?isu=v01i05&art=amish

interesting.

[Rightly Biased]

Yeah what you said.


Thanks Alex

RightlyB

[RaceBannon]

I never called any of them a scumbag. You owe me an apology for that.

I am amazed at the almost violent reaction by those claiming to be Christian on this topic.

You guys act like LIBERALS who are running around screaming BUSH LIED, you are all doing the same thing: ignoring the points made, responding to your emotion only, and then respond by calling me names and insults.

I am glad people do not think I am the type of Christian you and others have been making yourselves out to be.

[HairOfTheDog]

Great post, Grammy!