Trump Knocks Carson as a Seventh Day Adventist as Iowa Polls Shift

Fiscal Times ^ | 10/25/15 | Eric Pianin

[markomalley]

Until now, Donald Trump and Ben Carson have been content to co-exist as the two Republican “outsiders” dominating the presidential campaign scene.

Together, the bombastic billionaire real estate executive and the eerily soft-spoken former neurosurgeon have shared about half of the overall Republican support in the presidential sweepstakes while the other candidates have languished with single digit showings in the polls. But as Trump and Carson prepare for another crucial Republican presidential debate in Boulder, Colorado on Wednesday, the gloves are definitely coming off.

With two new polls showing Carson surging ahead of Trump in Iowa, Trump has begun lashing out with the same tactics he has used effectively against former Florida governor Jeb Bush earlier this year – saying that Carson lacks the energy and negotiating smarts to be president and that he is too soft on immigration. “Carson is lower energy than Bush,” Trump declared during a Jacksonville, Florida rally on Saturday. “I don’t understand what’s going on.”

Carson immediately retorted in Iowa that “My energy levels are perfectly fine,” noting that he often spent as many as 15 to 20 hours in the operating room during his career as a nationally renowned surgeon. In an obvious reference to Trump’s showboating, combative political style, Carson added that “jumping up and down and screaming” doesn’t qualify one to be president.

During an appearance on NBC News’ Meet the Press today, Carson said that Trump and other critics often mistake his soft-spoken manner as a sign of a lack of energy. “I have plenty of energy,” he said. “But, you know, I am soft-spoken. “I do have a tendency to be relaxed. I wasn't always like that. There was a time when I was, you know, very volatile. But, you know, I changed.”

Over the weekend, Trump also veered into more treacherous political territory – and may have offended the state’s politically active evangelical Christians -- by singling out Carson’s Seventh-day Adventist faith and suggesting that it somehow puts his chief rival on the religious fringes when contrasted with Trump’s more “middle of the road” Presbyterian faith.

“I’m Presbyterian,” Trump said on Saturday in Jacksonville. “Boy, that’s down the middle of the road, folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist I don’t know about. I just don’t know about it.”

Carson angrily demanded an apology. He also suggested during an interview on Fox News Sunday that Trump’s outbursts might be a sign of desperation, especially his attack on Carson’s religious faith after complaining two months ago that Carson had improperly questioned his own faith.

Back in September, Carson caused a stir when he credited his faith for his success in life and contrasted that with Trump, who had said that he never asked God for forgiveness and refused to cite his favorite Bible verse. Carson later apologized.

“He went a little ballistic on that, so it seems a little interesting that he would now be doing that,” Carson said. “You know, I really refuse to get in the mud pit. You know, Hillary [Clinton] was actually right when she said the Republicans are there trying to destroy each other. I really think that was a huge mistake in the last [presidential election] cycle, and I’m certainly not going to get into that no matter what anybody says.”

Evangelical voters make up a substantial part of the Iowa’s Republican base, and it’s a group that Trump has had difficulty wooing. Why he called out Carson on being a Seventh Day Adventist and further offending evangelicals more generally is hard to fathom.

By Sunday, Trump was back-pedaling on the controversy, even while refusing to apologize to Carson for having raised the topic in the first place. Questioned by George Stephanopoulos of ABC News’ This Week on why he even brought up the subject, Trump sputtered, “I just don’t know about that particular religion.”

“I would never say bad about any religion,” Trump said. “I said, ‘I don’t know about it.’ That’s not an insult.”

For a front-running candidate who lives and breathes polling results and who has been riding the crest of an anti-establishment movement in his party, Trump suddenly has something to worry about.

[Salamander]

Veggie Ben has got to go.

[Salamander]

Well, right here I was ripped on for pointing out Veggie Ben’s cult connections.

“Religious tolerance” or some such crap.

[Salamander]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/michael.htm

Read White’s rantings for yourself, as well.

To be fair, before it burned down, the SDA had a wicked good health food store, here.

But *everything* was vegetarian and they were closed on Saturday.

[Salamander]

We once had Romney as our candidate.

People will be even less freaked by SDA Ben.

Sad but true.

[Migraine]

Point being (and believe me, I had no reason to speak about Carson theologically, only politically), Carson would be asked about these matters should he receive the Rep. nomination. The press would have a field day with him. They would leave him either defending obtuse positions in everyone’s eyes but SDAers (what % of the electorate are they again?), or denying or distancing himself from aspects of his faith. This is about politics. I raised the issue because of politics and electability.
You have your positions all staked out to your great contentment. I disagree with them, but so what, at least in this context.
Carson is unelectable, and it’s mainly because of the SDA positions on Sunday worship, Catholicism, and the Apocalypse itself. BTW, I personally agree with the SDA position on the latter two (which is why I, too, am unelectable to any national office).

[Salamander]

Satan deceived Adam and Eve by twisting one little sentence.

Cults work that way, too.

*Lots* of outward good works hide the dangerously tiny little lies.

[Salamander]

Christ fulfilled all the old testament requirements.

*He* is *our* Sabbath now and he rose again on a Sunday.

Ours is no longer a religion of works and laws but of faith.

[firebrand]

My first thought as well. Does this writer even understand what evangelicals are? The difference between the two?

[Freedom56v2]

That’s not even the worst of his ideologies- He’s for a panel to decide which seniors deserve life saving treatment/end of life care, and which ones don’t

[[Our mind-set is to automatically pull out all medical stops—even if that means literally torturing loved ones during their last few months of life. What if rather than always putting terminally ill patients in intensive care units—where we poke, prod, test, and operate ad nauseum—we allowed most people the dignity of dying in relative peace and comfort, at home, surrounded by loved ones, with hospice care or some other medical attendant if necessary? Agreement on who should be treated and who should not be treated would require an extensive national discussion that could hopefully result in some helpful basic guidelines. Obviously any such guidelines should allow for flexibility and choice. And decisions should be based not merely on age but on the viability of the patient. (From his 1999 book, The Big Picture.)]]

---

Yikes! I was not aware of this :(

[Freedom56v2]

Let me add this in:

What cultish types of things are there that you think Adventists participate in?

Devil worship
Spells
Mutilation
Mass suicide
Encantations
Hexes
Indentured servitude
Theft of church members funds
Declaring people forever damned to hell
The selling of access to heaven
Sexual activity for the pleasure the pastor or church leaders
The demand of church members to sell all worldly belongs and donate the proceeds to the church

SDAs meet on Saturdays and listen to sermons about living a good life and treating their fellow men as they would want to be treated

They study the Bible and it’s teachings

They do not get together on Sabbath and study Ellen White’s works, although some things that pertain may be touched on. The Bible is the main focus, for 99% of the time.

They talk about mission work, community welfare work, and disaster relief

---

With all due respect...And you know this how? First hand? Are you SDA? Just asking....

[Freedom56v2]

All of Carson’s support comes from Democrat crossovers.

Operation Chaos lives!

---

Not disputing this theory, but do you have any proof?

[Liz]

N-i-c-e wrap.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Trump reacts petulantly with his emotions.

That's why I call him the Incredible Hulk. You have to make sure he's pointed in the right direction.

[MayflowerMadam]

“Trump ... may have offended the state’s politically active evangelical Christians”

Evangelical Christians know that SDA is a cult, so they won’t be offended. Goofball, airy-fairy, feel-good denominations, i.e., Unitarian, may not have a problem with it, but they’re not evangelical.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Regarding the PCUSA & the fact that Donald is a Presbyterian:

Wondering if Donald is in the PCUSA since he called it ‘middle of the road.’ There are also conservative Presbyterian denominations that have sprung up & are becoming popular.

Hundreds of thousands of people have left the once huge Presbyterian Church USA because it’s been taken over by liberal Democrats. They are pro-choice, support gay pastors, gay marriage & Palestinians, instead of Isreal. They even give pastors abortion coverage in their medical plan.

[mazda77]

The question did. Hows about going to the video and getting the full context before offering a comment based solely on a headline?

Tapper invoked Carson’s name in regards to questioning Trumps faith. Now, go back and watch the entire exchange and get back to us.

[markomalley]

Evangelical Christians know that SDA is a cult, so they won’t be offended. Goofball, airy-fairy, feel-good denominations, i.e., Unitarian, may not have a problem with it, but they’re not evangelical.

The late, great FReeper Alex Murphy explained a taxonomy of Christian denominations that he shared several years ago. It went as follows:

"Reformed/Protestant" (16th century, those that trace denominational and creedal roots back to the Reformation),
"Evangelical" (17th century, like xzins' Wesleyans/Methodists or the Baptists, largely anabaptist, that arose after the Reformed groups);
"Restorationist" (19th century, independent "first century style" churches / denominations that can be traced back to the Stone/Campbell movement in NY's Hudson River valley); and
"Charismatic" (20th century, any "Spirit-led" but anti-creedal church or denomination that followed or appeared alongside the Restorationists, but especially those that originated with the "baby boomer" generation i.e. the Calvary Chapel/Vineyard churches).

I'm honestly not sure where I'd place groups like the "emergent churches" or even the Warren / Osteen style megachurches. They lack the strong theological distinctives (Calvinism, creedalism) that characterizes the earlier groups, and the strong cultural distinctives (display of charismatic gifts, fierce cultural isolationism) that characterizes the later groups. I tend to think that they should get their own category, but I usually lump them under the "evangelical" label because they usually associate themselves with that group socially.

A couple of the charts, below, illustrate this growth:

Of particular interest is the evolution of the Puritan movement that migrated to this country on the Mayflower (I mention this because of your screen name). As I understand it, this movement evolved into the Congregationalist movement which, in turn, split primarily into two groups: the first, merging with others, evolved into the United Church of Christ and the second evolved into the Unitarian Universalists.

And then we have folks like Joel Osteen and Rick Warren followers (neither of which Mr. Murphy would classify as evangelical, but, I would bet, if you asked them about themselves, they'd consider themselves as evangelical).

Interesting history...

---

The point being that saying "evangelical Christians know..." is a broad-brush statement that makes any universal characterization useless.

Even with Catholics, who supposedly share a common doctrine, you run the spectrum from Pat Buchanan to Nancy Pelosi and everything in between. For Evangelicals, who don't share a common doctrine, you're going to have even a wider spread.

[trebb]

Interjecting religion into this campaign does not strike me as a good idea.

Consider the huge religious tones with JFK and Romney for past reference on how it's here to stay. Besides, much as I like Carson's view on not allowing a Muslim President (as one of the Fox gals said, "We already have one") he also brought religion into it.

The question is, is it wrong to bring religion into it or just some religion?

Now for a short public service announcement to all on FR:

I prefer Cruz and my money goes to his campaign, hence the Cruz link. If you like someone else, donate to him/her (find your own link to do it) and if you use FR and don't donate, then please don't complain about the welfare leeches or those who have Obama Phones because, functionally, you are no different.....

GO CRUZ!! Keep it up Trump!!

Donate to Cruz

Donate to FR

[Colofornian]

It rolls rather easily into bigotry when used to bash another candidate’s religion.

Hey, there's a LOT to like about Carson...I've even taken the time to hear him personally speak.

But you can't have it both ways...

(See Trebb's comments @ post #98 to see what I mean: "Besides, much as I like Carson's view on not allowing a Muslim President...")

You can't accuse somebody of bringing up Carson's SDA as religious bigotry & then ignore Carson's comment of not allowing a Muslim prez...That's inconsistent & just down right religiously hypocritical.

Do you fess up to being hypocritical on this one?

[Colofornian]

(Doin’ very well in the Lord, R...thanks for askin’)