Law Professor: Baltimore Officers Were Overcharged, Charges Will Likely Be Dismissed

The Daily Caller ^ | May 1, 2015 | Chuck Ross

[Mom MD]

none, not that its any of your business. Treated overdoses? and addicts? Plenty.

[BlueDragon]

And yet, here he is standing up, entering the paddy wagon.

And being held up by two officers after having been dragged over to the vehicle.

What I was driving at is the neck injury could have began with the arrest, outside of the vehicle.

If he later tumbled around in the back of the vehicle, and that either worsened and finalized something of a possible neck injury, or if Mr.Grey suffered all the neck injury in the vehicle, I don't know.

What we do know is that injury was suffered in police custody, and the man is now dead.

[BlueDragon]

I think you nailed it, sad to say.

But let us all remember there are many black people in places like Baltimore and Fergusen, Mo., who see these same things and are as grieved by it as many of us here (whether black, or so-called 'white').

The grievous part is that there doesn't seem to be enough of any racial background who can find ways to take successful stand against the senselessness of it.

[zzeeman]

Agreed on all counts. I think that all any reasonable, honest citizen wants to have happen is that the TRUTH come out and justice is meted out appropriately.

The worst thing about this situation (and there is a lot of crap about it), is that this regime is almost in a 'win-win' situation.

1. If they somehow get convictions on all/most of the charges, then it bolsters their argument that ‘local police are out of control and we must take over....’

2. If they don’t get convictions, then massive riots will break out all across the country (because of the raised expectations), and they will point to not getting convictions as a different reason that they must take control over local policing....

Monsters.

[dp0622]

You are right. Let’s hope the Grand Jury hears all of the evidence and oomes to a righteous decision.
However, as long as it is Never mentioned that he had committed many crimes and the BEST way to not end up like this is to not commit crimes. that group is lost. As long as having six kids without a job or husband like the woman who saved her kid, is not a major issue, all is lost with them.
We will go about living our lives and the black community will wallow in despair no matter how bad some white people feel for a few days about police injustice. There are 1.2 million officers in the country.
Perhaps the best way to make sure EACH and EVERY one of them is completely sane and sound even after seeing insanity in these neighborhoods on a daily basis is to disband all of them, save swat teams. My neighborhood would be no different. Guilty white people could sleep at night knowing blacks are slaughtering each other but at least not by cops.

[TexasGator]

"Charges filed against the six Baltimore police officers Zimmerman for their his involvement in the death of Freddie Grey Treyvon Martinwill be dismissed, a George Washington (fill in the blank) University law professor predicted in an interview with The Daily Caller (fill in the blank). "

[wardaddy]

Heroin does not make one agitated crazed as the original post said here which I replied to

It makes one euphoric and in higher doses pretty darn sleepy

It and all the opioids have a quite similar effect

The only agitated state from heroin is when a junkie can’t get it

Unlike you and the good doctor I have consumed heroin and most of the opioids in my long life ranging from medical care to recreational use

I am admittedly unfamiliar with the newer opioids and derivatives like OxyContin and Opana etc

The notion one takes heroin and goes banshee is poppycock

Many folks here have the heartfelt notions about what drugs do but they’ve never taken

Particularly about marijuana

This disinformation about opioids making one crazed is one reason many folks in serious pain have a hard time getting relief and have to jump through many hoops

Let me be really precise

Heroin or morphine or dilaudid in drug abuse dosage knock your ass out plain and simple unless you are extremely tolerant

If you are addicted you’ll be chasing a nod and trying to keep the sickness of withdrawal away

Withdrawal btw is crazed no question

Highly agitated

Here’s a public example

Rush whom I adore took by his admission very high levels of oxycodone.,,, for his neck..,,,20-30 times what I would take of Percocet 10mg

Did he seem crazed then to you

He didn’t to me.,,,in fact he was very witty and self deprecating even if high

Heroin is a 10 on pain management...used in England

Percocet is a solid 8 in moderate dosage

At his level it might as well have been heroin

That’s my personal experience

If you have any knowledge whereby you’ve taken the drug please share

Otherwise I’ll stick with my own firsthand knowledge

So sound off

I’ll let you have last word

It’s just easier

So try to stay on topic

No strawman and no ad hominum

[wardaddy]

One thing I forgot that opioids do to the unaccustomed

Vomit

Very common for weak stomachs

Not sure why

I’ve had two open hearts

While they dosing me up in post surgery blue light pods they also administered promethazine

Which is an antihistamine with great anti emetic capabilities

But makes one very drowsy

With my experience of opioids I will add to my knowledge by declaring personally I think pain relief wise dilaudid beats heroin

And then there’s toradol which I get 12 injections every two months in my neck

But no dope effect although very effective for certain pains

I also get steroids injected same way in my neck alternating months

And it’s the best

I’m not making this stuff up

My body is wracked like Nick Nolte is North Dallas Forty

All this makes it manageable

[wardaddy]

Well you challenged my expertise on I pioids

Unlike you I have done heroin but that’s ok

Heroin is scary for many reasons

It’s legal for pain outside the US

Sure didnt craze me or my fellow travelers then When we snorted or smoked it

It felt warm and menthol breath and relaxed sense of well being

The complete opposite of crazed

Honestly no offense

Are you a 12 step doc or is that not my business either

I’ll give you credit though your homepage is sweet and more forthcoming than most here

And you’re from Texas so I’m gonna be polite

Please don’t tell me you’re a yankee transplant

I’ve lived in Texas a bit all my life and kinfolks in Upshur county

Have a nice day

[VideoDoctor]

Spines do not sever themselves.

The part of the story that both sides tend to agree on in that the victim was not restrained by a seal belt while in a seated position.

did he became angry or belligerent enough to start crashing around and head butting the van interior where he was confined but NOT restrained.

MY POINT: The easiest place to snap or damage the spine is just below the brain stem where the spine begins. The victim COULD have UNINTENTIONALLY did this to himself.

If true... he probably went into shock and never fully recovered consciousness until he died, which I believe occurred a week after the incident.

[rockrr]

Good one ;’)

[Salamander]

Thank God somebody liked it.

;D

[Mom MD]

I’m a Hospitalist and treat hospitalized patients. Most people particularly occasional users experience what you say. But I have seen plenty of hard core users who are anything but mellow and come up swinging hard

Certainly street drugs can also be mixed with all kinds of interesting and toxic substances that can alter behavior as well

[rockrr]

I saw this and couldn’t resist posting. Apparently Garcia was a drooler, not a dueler.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3063451/How-Grateful-Dead-s-Jerry-Garcia-stoned-heroin-drooled-mic-drummer-Bill-Kreutzmann-slept-13-groupies-one-night-rockers-fired-300-shots-Ronald-Reagan-TV-screen-reveals-new-book.html

[wardaddy]

I was a deadhead a bit

I prefer the Pigpen era or anything up thru Blues for Allah

Saw them a dozen times

Garcia was a heroin addict I would wager

Pretty odd bridge from being the prankster band and all that well made LSD to being a tar baby

That was a band that without Capt Trips ain’t the same band

[UCANSEE2]

Thank you for the response.

On another thread, we were discussing this and I think his larynx got injured during the initial arrest when one of the cops had him pinned to the ground with a knee on the neck.

The spinal injury (IMHO) appears to have occurred because Mr. Gray would NOT STAY SEATED. I don’t believe the cops injured his spine, nor took him on a ‘nickel ride’.

Try standing up in the bed of a pickup truck with your shoelaces tied together. Have the driver gently take off.
Bet you fall. The laws of physics guarantee it.

I think Mr. Gray is responsible for his own injuries by not staying seated, and that the cops are ultimately responsible for the passenger in their vehicle, no matter how it happened or who it was.

[UCANSEE2]

It is certainly a (somewhat remote) possibility that Freddie broke his own neck.

Try this. Tie your shoelaces together and stand in the bed of a pickup truck.

Have the driver do a normal take off. You will probably survive, but you will likely be bleeding after your face hits the bed of the truck and you slide to the rear.

All Freddy had to do to incur the injury was STAND UP. Which he did repeatedly. The police van had to stop twice because he wouldn't stay seated. They put him in leg cuffs to keep him from even thinking about standing up (because it would be stupid and you would fall and break your neck) and he did it anyway.

[BlueDragon]

That explains things as they may well play out in a courtroom.

The larynx injury...and much of the rest too, makes me wonder what the autopsy looks like.

How much can be firmly established that doesn't rely upon anyone's opinion?

The man is dead...of that we can be certain enough(?)

[BlueDragon]

Thank God somebody liked it.

;D

God sees all Bonnies, born under a bad moon rising, or no.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Symptoms of heroin overdose include seizures and muscle spasms. I don’t know how much heroin he is thought to have ingested. Also, if he passed out on heroin, he would have lacked the ability to keep himself seated and steady while the van was in motion.