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What does that have to do with the topic of this thread is: i.e. the paid Russian Internet Trolls and who they are, what motivates them, what their favorite toothpaste is?

This thread topic is ostensibly about "Professional Russian Trolls".

But when those you constantly label as trolls show up in the thread to discuss the topic, I don't see you making any comments on topic, just immediately ranting about trolling in a quite relentless manner. Does that not make this OP trolling, in that the thread itself is nothing more than an attempt to draw people into the thread simply to harangue them ?

I decided to look it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Excerpt from the article:

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]"

I'd recommend to lurkers that they read more at that link and those following.

You consistently accuse other FReepers of being Russian trolls. In my case and most others I've seen lumped into this category, it's not trolling but an expression of disagreement with some of our government's policies. While there may have been some comments posted that promoted the Russian government or Putin, I'd be hard pressed to find one. The dissenters here on FR simply don't express much of an opinion one way or the other on the Russian government or Putin himself. I do see some posts on FR where Putin is commented on favorably for some action or words of his regarding Islam and homosexuality, but I have not seen such a post by a dissenter on a thread which was about Ukraine. On the Ukraine threads, dissenters seem to just stick to the subject of Ukraine.

It was interesting that you brought up this idea of government-backed trolling, though, as it brings to mind the nasty spectre of government-backed social engineering. I find this an area of grave concern. Certainly all governments enage in public relations (PR) as well as the modern-day field of Reputation Management, which is a subset of Social Media. Of course what this thread is about, trolling, arguably is the ugly-stepsister of Reputation Management called Astroturfing. The more covert manipulative strategies and tactics in modern Public Relations are very troubling to most people, however, there are literally thousands of consulting firms and professionals on the web who sell social media PR services to businesses, governments, non-profit organizations, etc., and many of them specifically advertise that they can help with content creation and social media engagement for the purposes of reputation management. The links above describe a rather complex ethical situation in this world of public opinion and social media.

We all know how controlling the totalitarian governments we've seen in the East have been. An excerpt from wikipedia from the link Social_engineering_(political_science):

"Extremely intensive social engineering campaigns occurred in countries with authoritarian governments. In the 1920s, the government of the Soviet Union embarked on a campaign to fundamentally alter the behavior and ideals of Soviet citizens, to replace the old social frameworks of Tsarist Russia with a new Soviet culture, to create the New Soviet man. The Soviets used newspapers, books, film, mass relocations, and even architectural design tactics to serve as "social condenser" and change personal values and private relationships. Similar examples are the Chinese "Great Leap Forward" and "Cultural Revolution" program and the Khmer Rouge's plan of deurbanization of Cambodia. In Singapore, the government's housing policies attempt to promote a mix of all races within each subsidized housing district in order to foster social cohesion and national loyalty while providing citizens with affordable housing.[citation needed] In Tanzania in the 1970s, the government pursued a policy of enforced villagisation under Operation Vijiji in order to promote collective farming.[4]"

Just out of curiosity, I did some searching to see if I could find any social engineering in the history of Western governments, and lo and behold, the 1960's came popping up.

I had become of aware a few years ago of the theory that the 1960's "counterculture' was a psyop, but I never really looked around for much detail, and pretty much tossed it aside when I found any.

Just for the lurkers, I found quite an interesting anomaly which sounds like a great starting point for further research: there are relationships between key figures in the 1960's music scene and the American military, intelligence and old establishment families. I found this simply fascinating and looked up a few in wikipedia just to verify parents. Wow - if this is what it looks like, our intelligence services certainly put to shame a little astroturfing in some puny little office building housing a few web trolls. Here's just the start:

U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison - commander of US Naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin - and father of Doors singer Jim Morrison.

Frank Zappa's father: chemical warfare specialist at Edgewood Arsenal, a facility frequently mentioned in MK-ULTRA material. Frank's wife Gail had ties to the Navy as did her family.

John Phillips of Mamas and Papas fame came from a military family and received an appointment to the Naval Academy but left before graduating.

David Crosby - son of Naval Academy graduate military intelligence officer.

The list goes on, the lurker should research for themselves, as this is just a tiny drop in the bucket and there is a lot more fascinating history to the life stories and backgrounds of many central figures of 1960's counter culture. Of course, we can't mention this subject without including Dennis Hopper, whose father was in the OSS in WWII; even though he was an actor (yet another who studied at Lee Strasberg's Actors Studio), he was such a central figure in the 1960's. The scene of much of the history is Laurel Canyon, location of the Manson murders and the "Log Cabin" of Zappa.

Again, these few points prove nothing and are simply striking in their coincidental nature - there's certainly not enough space here to discuss, the reader will have to research on their own. All one has to do is search for the terms mentioned in this post.

Ping.

I wish I had time to research the 60’s stuff. It would be really good if a lot of hard facts could be compiled. I for one would really appreciate anyone taking the time.

I guess it really was a long strange trip.

I am not always agree with your ideas but now you are mostly spot on.

Especially considering so-called ‘propaganda trolling’.

We have several posters here who are raving with an idea of so-called ‘Putinista troll’ presense who themselves are trolls of the highest magnitude, jumping on anyone who aren’t marching in line. Insults, changing topics and talking down certain reasonable arguments are like a sport to them.

None of their opponensts are actually trolls and so-called ‘propaganda’ are mostly articles from mainstream Western media or simply attempts to connect dots over certain story.

I’d say these ‘pro-Western’ posters are at the very least are hypocrites but in reality are trolls themselves, and it is likely that some of them are propaganda trolls who have their agenda.

At the same time I haven’t seen any poster on this board who are a real ‘Putinista’ or ‘kissing Putin’s butt’.

Would any of them allegedly ‘pro-Western’ posters provide any so-called ‘KGB propaganda’ posted by me of other smeared ‘butt-kissing’ Freepers? Would any of them bring any examples of trolling, name calling or ridiculing their ideas which isn’t based on logical arguments? The answer is no. They can’t back their raving and they switch to insults if one asks them to provide some.

In reality the simple expression of disagreement on Obama’s ‘Ostpolitik’ is certainly enough for them to to make one labeled as ‘Putinista troll’.

Are they really ‘pro-Western’ or maybe Obamabots?

I want what you’re taking. Is it prescription?

tip of the ice burg... got the section called

Inside The LC
The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation

the guy IS a nut job but his work does make some VERY interesting coincidences appear

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/index.html

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

Kind of sounds like

McCarthyism - The practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means “the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism.”

Nice rant...

“I don’t see you making any comments on topic,....”

Your comment is a false allegation which you are using as a strawman argument. The news story calls attention to the fact of how Putin’s Russian government is covertly employing Russians within Russia to conduct a war of false propaganda and disinformation against the United States, NATO, and other nations the Russian regime has chosen to treat as enemies. As many other FR participants have observed, you and other posters have demonstrated a habit of responding to this story and most every other like news story about these covert Russian propagandists with comments that have little to nothing to do with these covert Russian propagandists, but instead have everything to do with a Tu Quogue and/or ad hominem attack against the poster, the United States, the allies of the United States, U.S. sources of propaganda, and just about anything else imaginable that is derogatory of the United States so long as it changes the subject of the news article and subverts or suppresses a discussion and criticism of Putin and/or Russia.

“You consistently accuse other FReepers of being Russian trolls.”

That is yet another false allegation which you use as a strawman argument. I have been at pains to carefully describe some participants as behaving like pro-Russian commenters or in some cases as pro-Russian trolls. I do so because it is near to impossible to know which of the posters are (A) Russians paid to troll FR; (B) other foreigners paid to troll FR; (C) Russians who are not paid to troll FR; (D) other foreigners not paid to troll FR; (E) U.S. citizens paid to troll FR for Putin and/or Russia; or (F) U.S. citizens not paid to troll FR for Putin and/or Russia. I and other participants on FR can only observe who is making the kinds of false and derogatory comments against the United States and other nations such as the Ukraine, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, and so forth who are the objects of Russia’s information warfare and justifiably describe them as being pro-Russian, whether or not they are also trolling the thread to suppress a discussion of the new story that was the topic of the thread in the first place.

Now in this post you once again choose to make complaints against myself and by implication at least against any other FR participant who would call attention to your actions and particularly to your changing of the subject to anything other than how Russia is conducting information warfare with false propaganda and disinformation. You have had endless opportunities with this article in particular to discuss anything at all to do with the merits and demerits of the St. Petersburg Internet Research Agency, 131 Lakhtinsky Prospekt, Olgino, Kurortny District, St. Petersburg, Russia; but you have consistently failed to do so. Instead, you come here to argue in favor of censoring the appearance of news articles which talk about the participation of Russian trolls in a non-Russian forum. Instead you come into the article to complain about being described as pro-Russian posters and/or in some particular cases as pro-Russian trolls, because your comments change the subject to off-topic comments derogatory of non-Russians and commentary critical of Russia. Consequently, your complaint must be rejected as yet another attempt to shut down and censor discussions that are critical of Russia and pro-Russian participants.

“While there may have been some comments posted that promoted the Russian government or Putin, I’d be hard pressed to find one.”

Then you must either be blind or deliberately engaging in presenting yet another falsehood to serve a strawman argument. Instead of changing the subject by provoking an argument over a question of whether or not your comments are pro-Russian, why don’t you simply remain on topic and discuss the topic of the news story concerning the St. Petersburg Internet Research Agency? When you refuse to do so why should the other FR participants not conclude your behavior qualifies as a pro-Russian attempt to “disrupt” a discussion of a news story which is critical of Russia?

“Extremely intensive social engineering campaigns occurred in countries with authoritarian governments.”

Yes, and “social engineering campaigns” have a long history among other non-totalitarian governments such as Britain and the United States. However, they are not the topic of this news story and they are arguably of a major difference in character and conduct. You are perfectly free to raise their actions as a topic of discussion about a news story related to them. In the meantime, it is quite reasonable to observe that efforts made to change the subject in this discussion about this news story concerning Professional Russian Trolls may be construed as a pro-Russian effort to disrupt, suppress, or even censor this discussion about Russia. To avoid making such an impression, you might try the obvious course of refraining from making off-topic comments about the United States and its allies and their sources of propaganda as you make comments pro and/or con about the topic of the discussion for this news article, i.e. the St. Petersburg Internet Research Agency.

Frank Zappa's father: chemical warfare specialist at Edgewood Arsenal, a facility frequently mentioned in MK-ULTRA material. Frank's wife Gail had ties to the Navy as did her family.

What that where mind control and torture experiments were carried out?

U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison - commander of US Naval forces in the Gulf of Tonkin - and father of Doors singer Jim Morrison. Frank Zappa's father: chemical warfare specialist at Edgewood Arsenal, a facility frequently mentioned in MK-ULTRA material. Frank's wife Gail had ties to the Navy as did her family..

You're leaving out Leonard Cohen - who rumor has it - was connected to MK-ULTRA... (yes Canadian - but MK-ULTRA WAS run out of Montreal...)

Joseph Stalin attended a seminary until he was 21. I suppose Stalinism was a plot by the Orthodox church.

A worthwhile endeavor and very interesting comparison.

To be sure Lenin was clear that Capitalism would collapse as the inside rotted in decadence.

I suppose he simply got the timeline wrong.

day late dollar short