Posted on 09/27/2014 6:36:31 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
Somewhere you’ve picked up the misapprehension that the problem in Iran is due to them being “Twelvers” (Shi’ites who regard there as having been twelve Imams who were the legitimate successors to Mohammed, as opposed to, for instance the Ismaelis who regard there as having been seven (and differ from the Twelvers as to who the seventh was) or the Zaydi who regard there as having been four).
Most Shi’ites are Twelvers, including those in Iraq who follow Al Sistani, who got the Iraqis to accept the super-majority provisions in the constitution we wrote for them, and except for a six month period when for good domestic political reasons he tilted toward Iran, objectively supported the U.S. presence in Iraq through the entire previous war and aftermath.
The problem with Iran is not that they are Twelvers, but that they are controlled by the Ta’ajili, a small sect of Twelvers, who contrary to the attitude of most Twelvers, which is to patiently wait for the fulfillment of their end-time prophecies involving the return of the Twelfth Imam, teach instead that the sowing of chaos will hasten the return of the Twelfth Imam. Orthodox “Twelver” Islam and Ismaeli Islam (headed by the Aga Khan) are the two branches of the Islam that come closest to being normal religions, rather than a totalitarian ideology in the cloak of a religion.
Indeed Shi’ites (with the exception of the Zaydis in Yemen who are sometimes considered Sunnis rather than Shi’ites because their four Imams were the first four Caliphs, and thus their position is more sympathetic to salfist Sunnis than other Shi’ites can be) are natural allies against IS, since the notion of a Caliphate is anathema to them.
It is one of the tragedies of history that Iran developed an state ideology including virulent anti-Americanism basically because the Shah had been one of “our bastards” during the Cold War.
Classic
Hats off to u
No that is not the distinction I am making. I am saying that the Caliphate was an Arab Empire and that the Arabs of today are attempting to use Islam as a tool to re-establish Caliphate.
Russia and al-Qa’ida:
The murkiest of these relations, however, has been the connection between al-Qa’ida and Russian intelligence. While the outlines of the story have been known for years, and even admitted by Moscow and the mujahidin, details remain elusive. Moreover, asking important questions about this relationship seems to be an issue few appear interested in probing deeply, even in the United States.
That Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden’s right-hand man and the leader of the global jihad movement since bin Laden’s death in May 2011, spent almost a half-year in the mid-1990s in the custody of Russian intelligence is admitted by both sides and is a matter of public record.
http://www.businessinsider.com/exploring-al-qaedas-murky-connection-to-russian-intelligence-2014-6
So basically you have no idea what I’m talking about and are telling me I’m wrong anyway.
LOL
If you're going to push this type of 'murky' connection, perhaps you should devote some time studying the links between Bin Ladin and American intelligence as well.
You’re right, I was *not* addressing your main point (though that’s not evidence I have no idea what you were talking about). I was just addressing your blaming “Twelvers” for the state Iran is in. I seem to recall Bill O’Rielly a few years back making the same mistake of confusing the Ta’ajili — the fanatical minority sub-sect of Twelvers who run Iran — with Twelvers in general and it driving me up the wall when he did it.
Substitute the word Ta’ajili for “Twelvers” in your post, and not only do I understand what you were saying, I agree with you.
Yes, I know I’m a pain. I seem to have taken on the role of house orientalist at FR, probably because being an Antiochian Orthodox Christian, I’m a much more aware of the subtleties of Middle Eastern history and religion than most posters here.
Those are indeed some of my failings, but I do think we ought to have a correct scorecard for recognizing both our enemies and potential short-term allies in the Middle East, so I’ll persist in being a pain about such things. (Damn shame State doesn’t seem to have even any moderately competent amateur orientalists, much less actual professionals, on staff. Everything from the invasion of Iraq onward would have gone better if they had. And no, I don’t believe for a moment they have such folks and are ignoring them. If they did someone would have gotten rich with a tell-all book about being ignored and going on the lecture circuit.)
So, what links are those, you anti-American toad?
If you have evidence the Russians ‘planned’ to use al-Zawahiri present it, otherwise stop making such a specious claim.
Obviously, you have not read the article, nor do you understand “intent”.
http://www.jpost.com/Features/The-Palestinian-terrorist-turned-Zionist
Shoebat’s claim to have bombed Bank Leumi in Bethlehem is rejected by members of his family who still live in the area, and Bank Leumi says it has no record of such an attack ever taking place. His relatives, members of the Shoebat family, are mystified by the notion of “Walid Shoebat” being an assumed name. And the Walid Shoebat Foundation’s working process is less than transparent, with Shoebat’s claim that it is registered as a charity in the state of Pennsylvania being denied by the Pennsylvania State Attorney’s Office. Shoebat’s claim to have been a terrorist rests on his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi. But after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period. Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage. Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, “I don’t know. I didn’t read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days.” (In 2004, he had told Britain’s Sunday Telegraph: “I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb.”) Shoebat could not immediately recall the year, or even the time of year, of the purported bombing when talking to the Post by phone from the US. After wavering, he finally settled for the summer of 1977.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3083107/posts?page=7#7
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.