Posted on 09/19/2014 11:14:41 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Boeing Co. BA +0.48% , which has built military planes for almost a century, is preparing for the prospect of a fighter-less future.
The steadfast commitment of the U.S. and many allies to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program made by Lockheed Martin Corp. LMT +0.60% is drying up funding for Boeing's fighters. Now, the head of Boeing's defense unit is preparing a road map that would concede the fighter market to Lockheed and pin the business's future on other aircraft, including military versions of its commercial jetliners.
"You have to face reality," Chris Chadwick, president of Boeing, Defense, Space & Security, said of the company's shifting focus in an interview in July.
Boeing's fighters are still heavily used today—its F/A-18 jets have been leading U.S. airstrikes in northern Iraq. But it faces a dearth of new orders. Production of the F/A-18 could end in 2017, while the last batch of F-15s bound for Saudi Arabia are due to roll off the production line in 2019.
The company is considering slowing production to keep the F/A-18 line running a little longer in the hope it can persuade the Pentagon to fund some additional purchases for the Navy. This could also buy time for a handful of potential international customers—notably Canada and Denmark—to decide on planned fighter buys
Boeing has said it may decide by April whether to end F/A-18 production at the St. Louis, Mo., plant that makes both fighters. "We're still solidly behind them," Mr. Chadwick said in an interview Thursday following an earlier report by The Wall Street Journal. He believes the F/A-18 can be sustained through the end of the decade.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Fighter aircraft production should be nationalized anyway.
The companies put no money of their own into it (Boeing Bird of Prey excepted) and essentially regurgitate the machine the government wants, with a profit premium.
Boeing is doing fine building 787’s and other commercial airliners.
Nationalize Lockheed - they don’t have any commercial customers and can’t compete in a commercial free market anyway - and move on.
The Navy built their own ships for over a century. And the Army used to have Armories.
Because the government does such a good job of managing what they do now?
Workers at Boeing and Lockheed are far more likely to be fired for not producing than those working at the post office or IRS. Not to mention the actions of the management...
I’m actually beginning to wonder if the F-35 will ever be deployed in significant numbers.
I’m not confident it is a sound aircraft. I’m not confident it’s capabilities are advanced enough for it to become the be all end all aircraft.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a new generation of remote aircraft replace it before it becomes fully operational.
I suspect it will become operational, but in paltry numbers.
I admit I haven’t followed the program closely. I may be wrong as can be. I believe a few have been delivered.
It seems like the full deployment as been just over the horizon for a long time.
NASA
Any other question?
Agreed. This is one thing that does not belong in the private sector. There is no competitive market place and no reason for profit.
Argue this with a pure conservative capitalist though and see what you get. All black or white with no room for any shade of gray, reason, logic or judgment. And don’t dare fiddle with the lobby or the politicians cash kickback cows.
Been there
Done that
It ain’t like you say.
Lockheed and Boeing defense people have zero incentive to move fast. They bill timecards, and the more of those you send the more you get paid.
The contracts are bid and administered to do overruns with expensive Engineering Change Orders.
That an airplane plops out of the back end of such a system is a happy accident, not much more. The “management” is not focused on that: they are there to maximize billing.
Nothing more.
“I’m actually beginning to wonder if the F-35 will ever be deployed in significant numbers.”
The F-22 was stopped. Can’t imagine many F-35’s will ever fly. Don’t think we’ll ever again build a manned fighter in volume. Small drones, that’s another story.
F22 is a good machine. Pity.
Small cheap Fighter aircraft for the third world
I'll take your word for it. But I have a hard time believing 100% government run would be better.
Their problem is that they are seen as a publicity program, not a necessity.
You actually think Lockheed thinks up a design, puts their own money behind it, goes out and markets it like Boeing does with the airliners?
It’s called “Bid and Proposal” money, and they make money on that too.
Totally corrupt.
At least you wouldn’t have a few parasites at the top pulling in millions for “innovating” when they do nothing of the sort.
Would overall expenditures go down?
Hard to say. Would still end up with Design Bureau’s competing for cash similar to Soviet DB’s or NASA centers.
But there would be no K Street lobbyists rattling the cups for more Gigabucks to LockMart / Boeing / NorthrupGrumman
Lets see, combine the efficiency of the post office with the honesty of the IRS and expect to fly that at supersonic speeds, taking on the most advanced fighter aircraft from other nations.
Nope, not seeing it.
As bad as you’ve seen it, believing it could be worse might only be limits of your imagination.
No doubt it could and should be better, but I doubt 100% government is ever the answer for that.
But it’s really about 100% government now.
Recall I said that LockMart has virtually no commercial contracts - of any kind!
EVERYTHING they do is for “the Customer” - the U.S. Government.
How is it different? They amount to a job shop that the DoD launders money through. They might as well be civil servants on the GS system.
I’ve always believed that the only real reasons the situation persists are:
1 - So that the Made Guys at the top collect big $$
2 - They can lay off the civilian workforce at will, unlike the civil servants who have luxurious benefits if not pay (well, nowadays it really is high pay)
It think the F22 production should at least have been doubled what it ended up being.
That is an amazing aircraft. Seems to me deployed properly, that sucker could be on station in a matter of hours just about anywhere.
It’s super-cruise capabilities are phenomenal, in this layman’s opinion.
Yes it is a pitty IMO.
(repeat of previous post)
It think the F22 production should at least have been doubled what it ended up being.
That is an amazing aircraft. Seems to me deployed properly, that sucker could be on station in a matter of hours just about anywhere.
It’s super-cruise capabilities are phenomenal, in this layman’s opinion.
Are you basing your “confidences” on an informed position or one from the media and your own prejudices?
Just curious...
I think the Skunk-works has served this nation pretty well over the decades. I don’t consider it a corrupt process. i could be wrong, but I see it as an incredible asset to this nation. I believe we have aircraft flying at this very time, that we know nothing about, that would shock us if we knew it’s full capabilities.
Don’t bet on it! WW III is coming soon! Look for a return of the Draft (for Women Too) patriotism, rationing, a new navy to replace the ships lost in combat—and new planes and pilots. All the stars selling war bonds, Hollywood purged of Anti-Americanists, College professors arrested for un american activitied—Islamic Imans sent to the camps . It will be a new 100% American Movement—US Flags everywhere—BUt few “freedoms” like burning flags and demanding this and that ‘right’. People will be fleeing to Mexico. Ask for welfare? “Don’t you know their’s a war on?” will be your only reply.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.