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Unfortunately, I don't think any of this will matter until pro-lifers fully embrace personhood. States can pass all the so-called anti-abortion laws they want; however they are invariably filled with all sorts of "and then you can kill the baby" loopholes and the slaughter of nearly 4000 innocent babies per day continues.
1 posted on 07/16/2014 9:01:31 AM PDT by wagglebee
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2 posted on 07/16/2014 9:02:00 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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3 posted on 07/16/2014 9:02:34 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I am ok with pro life incrementalism. One of the things we have to fight is the self rationalization of people who have had abortions. Every incremental win reduces the number of abortions, and the number of women who have to justify it. It then becomes more and more rare, and more restrictions can be placed on it until it whithers and dies.
4 posted on 07/16/2014 9:17:13 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: wagglebee

The pro-life movement may be “winning” marginally on abortion but it is losing on abortifacients by a much larger number. Net result is a loss.


5 posted on 07/16/2014 9:24:08 AM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: wagglebee

But the culture has shifted.

I remember as a kid where every dang show on TV had a heroic woman killing her child.

Now you have most of the characters keeping them. You have openly pro life messages on secular shows.

I suspect it is because of two things.
1. Woman do not have the same amount of shame for having a child out of wedlock. For that matter, being married is outside the experience of a great many people today, it is becoming a luxury good.

2. People can see that killing a child is really killing a child. The baby isn’t a blob of tissue, it is baby. With the rise of miscarriage support groups and such, many are starting to think of a child as a child, not a parasite.

We have lost marriage, but we might just win on abortion.


6 posted on 07/16/2014 9:24:15 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: wagglebee

But this is at least a good start. More can and ought to be done.

What is truly needed is spiritual conversion to the Lord longterm.


8 posted on 07/16/2014 9:27:05 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: wagglebee
Personhood is the bottom line legitimization of the pro-life position, but it isn't a strategy that has worked so far.

In the meantime, incremental restrictions have contributed to the necessary task of educating and winning over the hearts and minds of the people. Abortions are becoming fewer, both as a ratio of the population and in absolute numbers despite growing population. There are many factors, including better contraception use and less sex among ignorant young people.

Overall however as Weddington laments, the next generation is not inflamed with hateful feminist ideology. They are open to the plain facts of abortion, and most are repulsed by it.

12 posted on 07/16/2014 9:40:12 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: wagglebee

IMHO legal right to abortion has kept the Dem ranks down, do the GOP really want them to keep and raise their kids to be future Dem voters if abortion is made illegal? Old Tzu Strategem, let your enemies keep doing stupid things. Ever saw the video of the liberal girl who attacked a group of pro Life people and display on a street in Ohio. Imagine if she was forced to keep her out of wedlock child. Imagine what that child be like if she with her facist liberal attitude raised it to adult hood. Or worst has several out of wedlock babies and raised them up to be like her facist liberal mindset. Let your adversaries kill their young, just remember to keep yours and raise them to love their unborn.


16 posted on 07/16/2014 10:29:07 AM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: wagglebee

The article is propaganda.

But your first comment on the thread nails it.


20 posted on 07/16/2014 10:43:27 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (I can't help it. I was born again this way.)
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To: wagglebee

21 posted on 07/16/2014 10:46:32 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wagglebee

I disagree. Abortion is a tough sell, period. It’s an incredibly emotional decision, and then there is the internet. On the internet are the testimonials of 1000’s of people who have had abortions and regret it.

Gosnell is going to also put a huge dent in abortions. That movie, when it comes out, is going to be an internet hit. Nowadays, people look at women who get pregnant by accident and call them idiots - especially teenagers. They have no problem calling out a pregnant girl and saying, “You’ve heard of the pill, right? How about the morning after pill? Are you new?”

There are a lot more adopted kids around than there ever has been too.


22 posted on 07/16/2014 10:51:55 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (.)
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To: All

I think science is a key element.

We WILL have artificial wombs and even fetal transplants.

What happens when a father can sue for custody of the fetus so it can be incubated in an artificial womb? The feminists heads would explode.


38 posted on 07/16/2014 11:32:00 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: wagglebee

Which is utterly stunning given how easy it is to get birth control and not get pregnant in the first place.


62 posted on 07/16/2014 12:43:49 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: wagglebee

Sorry. The number one thing stopping abortion from happening is THE ULTRASOUND MACHINE.

Now showing a baby with a beating heart at 6 weeks. SIX WEEKS MEANS only two weeks after a missed period. Four weeks after she had sex. And the images are clearer than ever.

I applaud everyone in the Pro-Life movement. But this tech is winning hearts and minds best.


78 posted on 07/16/2014 1:49:01 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: wagglebee

Those 15 reasons miss the most important one:math. Children tend to take on the philosophy and ethics of their parents. The parents who embrace the culture of life have kids. The culture of death kills it’s children. So, 40 years later there are far fewer women who are pro infanticide.


100 posted on 07/16/2014 5:23:28 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Be a part of the American freedom migration: freestateproject.org)
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To: wagglebee
That's 1,460,000 babies murdered every year. Is the 4000 a day statistic a US one or worldwide, either way, it's breathtaking?

God is not pleased. I don't think there's a big enough millstone or a lake for those who are pro choice baby killers.

571,950 deaths from cancer were projected to occur in the U.S. in 2011.

I don't know how accurate the prediction was but abortionists kill more people than Doctors, then again, they are Doctors, so was Mengele and he killed less people.

109 posted on 07/16/2014 8:36:00 PM PDT by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: wagglebee

“...the pro-choice crowd has no rear guard. They killed them.”

This is true, to a large extent. Not to mention all the women who didn’t have children at all, even if they didn’t have abortions.


111 posted on 07/16/2014 8:39:19 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: wagglebee
Unfortunately, I don't think any of this will matter until pro-lifers fully embrace personhood. States can pass all the so-called anti-abortion laws they want; however they are invariably filled with all sorts of "and then you can kill the baby" loopholes and the slaughter of nearly 4000 innocent babies per day continues.

I agree with you, however, as this good news article explains, Even liberals as a political body aren’t united in support of abortion, because as Michaelson admits, “Abortion is a kind of murder.”. That WILL be the ultimate end of the state of abortion we have today - on demand, for any reason, at any time prior to birth. I believe that, just as the pictures of the death camps from WWII exposed the stark reality of what was going on in those places and compelled the world to get involved and end it, the more the truth about abortion is exposed, the more people will get their collective heads out of the sand and face the truth of human life being snuffed out in brutal ways. There was a big hoopla over banners being flown behind small planes and billboards displaying the remains of aborted babies and people were shocked by the gruesome truth of what goes on in those killing rooms every single day. Well, we need MORE of that so that complacency is replaced by determination to stop the practice.

The Roe v. Wade decision was fatally flawed in many ways but the one which stood out the most to me was the idea that the innocent human life could be ended based on "exceptions" such as rape or incest. I don't think many pro-life people would state abortion is NEVER to take place, because there are the very rare times when the mother WILL die unless the pregnancy is stopped. It solely would be because if the mother dies, so will the baby (i.e., ectopic pregnancy). Other than these rare situations, claiming rape, incest, mental or financial "health" of the mother does not cancel out the right to life of the child - who had nothing to do with how he/she was conceived.

Roe v. Wade started out as calling for legal abortion for cases of rape or incest. But, we see that this was the camel's nose in the tent and, because the right to life of the child could be put aside because of the circumstances of his conception, his "personhood" was removed from the argument and it was a short jump to the Doe vs. Bolton decision, which allowed abortion for the life or health of the mother and then defined "health" as not only physical, but emotional, financial, psychological and, even, the age of the mother. These are those "loopholes" you mentioned and you are right, the supposed restrictions on abortions based on the trimester breakdown get thrown out the window when a woman finds a "doctor" to agree to the abortion - and these physicians are more than eager to do them (it's a lucrative field)- finding whatever reason they can to justify doing it. Nowadays, even asking for a reason is perfunctory.

I deeply pray for the time when abortion becomes UNTHINKABLE - when we get to that point, it won't NEED to be illegal. Maybe yet in my lifetime!

113 posted on 07/16/2014 11:34:42 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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