Posted on 03/03/2014 10:07:58 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A conservative New York Times columnist, Ross Douthat, writes that it's perhaps only a matter of time when same-sex marriage becomes legal in all 50 states, ruminating on what it might be like for those who believe in traditional marriage when that happens.
The Supreme Court is likely to be "forced to acknowledge the logic of its own jurisprudence" on same-sex marriage and redefine marriage to include gay couples in all states, writes Douthat, former senior editor at The Atlantic, in an op-ed piece for the Times.
This will finish the national debate but the country will remain divided, with a substantial minority of Americans, most of them religious, still committed to the older view of marriage, he says.
This will lead to one of two possibilities, he argues.
This division "will recede into the cultural background, with marriage joining the long list of topics on which Americans disagree without making a political issue out of it." And in this case, religious conservatives would essentially be left to promote their view of wedlock within their own institutions, as a kind of dissenting subculture, he says.
"And where conflicts arise – in a case where, say, a Mormon caterer or a Catholic photographer objected to working at a same-sex wedding – gay rights supporters would...let the dissenters opt out 'in the name of their freedom – and ours.'"
The other possibility is that "the oft-invoked analogy between opposition to gay marriage and support for segregation in the 1960s South" is pushed to its logical public-policy conclusion, Douthat suggests. "In this scenario, the unwilling photographer or caterer would be treated like the proprietor of a segregated lunch counter, and face fines or lose his business," he adds.
Meanwhile, "pressure would be brought to bear wherever the religious subculture brushed up against state power," leading to harassment of agencies and businesses that promote the older definition of marriage, the columnist adds.
This seems more likely after last week's "debate" in Arizona over a bill that would make a way for business owners to refuse service to gay people on religious grounds, he argues.
While such bills have been seen, in the past, "as a way for religious conservatives to negotiate surrender – to accept same-sex marriage's inevitability while carving out protections for dissent…now, apparently, the official line is that you bigots don't get to negotiate anymore," Douthat says.
"The conjugal, male-female view of marriage is too theologically rooted to disappear, but its remaining adherents can be marginalized, set against one other, and encouraged to conform," he adds.
The writer then blames Christians for it, saying they had "plenty of opportunities – thousands of years' worth – to treat gay people with real charity, and far too often chose intolerance." He says they must "remember our sins, and nobody should call it persecution."
In conclusion, Douthat wonders what settlement the "victors" will impose for the "defeated."
There are no conservative NYT columnists
How come when leftists win the debate is declared settled??
This is a cultural issue, and its basically over, the culture is changing and there is nothing you can really do to stop it. Probably time to learn to deal with it. I’m taking my efforts to other things.
Sodomizing kids is a cultural issue, I guess we should get over that too.
Marriage is being destroyed, then they will find a new target: kids.
“A conservative New York Times columnist”
This proves the article is dishonest. There is no such thing as a conservative NYT columnist.
“...with a substantial minority of Americans, most of them religious, still committed to the older view of marriage, he says.”
Huh? Substantial Minority?
Secondly, I hope these newly ‘married’ gays are as MISERABLE as I was in my marriage. Be careful what you wish for. ;)
You’re too short-sighted. Culture is only a product of the current environment. Be ready to strike when the environment is desperate. The more desperate people get in this country, the more open conservative opportunities are to exploit. Remember, they have been losing worldwide.
I’ll be fully 100% ready and supporting of secession the moment this happens. It will be the final straw demonstrating that America has succumbed to evil, and I’ll gladly see the country burn to the ground.
I always find it fascinating that comments like these come from an account that was started in 1998.
Because, in reality, Leftists never “win”. They just successfully take the next step in the ongoing march of progressivism.
IOW they never stop advancing the ball. OTOH Conservatism, by it’s nature, is focused on maintenance and preservation of the status quo.
I’m scheduled to be dead in 22 years. Things like his help sweeten the deal.
I have gay and lesbian friends, so don’t hate homosexuals. I just don’t like seeing deviance defined up and down like this. I basically agree with Douthat, and had come to similar conclusions myself some time ago.
This isn’t the first we’ve been nudged to accept new sexual standards. It’s just the latest installment in the sexual revolution. I’m glad I didn’t have children.
Douthat believes this is pay back time against Christians who cherish God’s word and God’s laws. Obama, leftists, militant atheists, the courts, and homosexuals believe that as well. So they are persecuting Christians. It has already begun in the military. But what they do not understand is that God will not be mocked.
far too much surrendering going on
RE; I’ll be fully 100% ready and supporting of secession the moment this happens.
And what would the gays living in the seceding states think?
Also, how is this going to be achieved peacefully?
If you took abortion and gay marriage out of the equation, the left would never win another election.
The left must foist controversy on society in order to create the public relations nightmare for the right. Absent that controversy, the left must focus on policy which they will never run on, fully knowing they would get destroyed.
His profile basically says: 'fiscally conservative, socially liberal'. So his comment was consistent with his profile.
Yes, in an ideal world. The difficulty is that social activists prefer submission to negotiation.
...now, apparently, the official line is that you bigots don't get to negotiate anymore," Douthat says.
Why should they be reasonable when they can be in charge, and their government backs them? "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". These aren't liberals by any classic definition, they don't believe in freedom except for theirs, and they aren't interested in compromise.
Yes they will.The agenda pushers don't want to be like 'everyone' else.They insist on being special....have uber rights, be raised above everyone else. The agenda pushers need chaos to survive.(think Jesse Jackson).
Over the history of Mankind there have been occasional periods where homosexuality was tolerated but only briefly. The question is not “if” there is a backlash but “when”. “When” that day arrives things will get ugly for the gays...
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