Apple’s ‘next big thing’ might be even bigger than we thought

Yahoo News ^ | 02/04/2014 | By Chris Smith

[Carbonsteel]

The iWatch may cost $299 when it launches later this year, Morgan Stanley analyst Katy Huberty said in a note to investors on Tuesday (via CNET), a price that’s exactly what Samsung initially charged for its first-generation Galaxy Gear and similar to the Pebble’s second smartwatch, the Pebble Steel. However, the iWatch is expected to be even more popular than its competitors’ offerings and it may indeed me the “next big thing” for Apple.

“Our working assumption is that iWatch largely will be adopted as an accessory device and, therefore, sold into the existing customer base, like the iPad, rather than to new customers, like the iPod or iPhone,” Huberty wrote.

[SunkenCiv]

The Rio mp3 player was hugely popular with all the Mac users I knew back at the time, so it didn’t come as a surprise that the iPod took them by storm. The iPod opened the way for the iPhone, which in turn brought in a whole new group of Mac buyers. Apple’s repeatedly not exactly hit it out of the park in the much more natural path of integration represented by streaming video; AppleTV sells a bit of course, but there’s not enough to distinguish it from other streaming vid boxes. I can’t imagine where this watch idea is supposed to lead, or how it is supposed to realistically integrate with lifestyle to become indispensible like their iPhone line.

[Revolting cat!]

It may be that we have finally reached the ever expected end of history and nothing new can be invented. I mean the technologists have been so desperate lately they have put CPUs into running shoes. CPUs in toasters next? Running Windows 10.1? Hurry up Apple with the next craze! I suggest iHulahoop. It’s gotta have beat and be easy to dance to. Just a ideer...

[roadcat]

It may be that we have finally reached the ever expected end of history and nothing new can be invented.

I was hearing this in the 1970s, and every decade since! Still plenty more to come. Remember the movie "Back to the Future II"? I'm still waiting for self-adjusting clothing. Korean and Japanese companies are testing flexible screen materials, as well as flexible electronics that can be integrated into your skin. As seen in futuristic movies as "Total Recall (2012)" we'll soon have cellphones integrated into your hand. Newer electronics will have smaller power demands so these devices will be feasible soon. I'd love to wear electronic eyeglasses with a binocular zoom feature and recording capability. How about a sheet of stickers where you tear one off and place it on your fingernail, and it has sensors for temperature (body and external air) and compass direction?

I fear that many of these future gadgets will not be mass marketed as in the past. Other than that, the future will be great for those who can afford to buy.

[PreciousLiberty]

“It may be that we have finally reached the ever expected end of history and nothing new can be invented.”

LOL! We don’t even have reasonable robots yet, or flying cars.

Both will come, especially if LENR pans out. If it doesn’t, there will be a breakthrough in battery technology at some point.

There will also be practical (nuclear powered) spaceflight, which will open up at least the entire Solar System to human colonization. With effectively unlimited energy, there will be no need to be a certain distance from the Sun anymore. Rotating habitats will provide sufficient apparent gravity for good health.

CPUs still have at least 10x more performance ahead, there will be a move off of silicon to use carbon nanotubes or something similar. Parallelism will also be exploited more fully.

Then there are the myriad inventions we can’t even anticipate right now...

[pgyanke]

Yet, in this case, they are not the freshest, and not the first, and this is not one of their best ideas either.

Check your history. I've been watching this conversation for a while. The mere hint that Apple was thinking about a watch sent everyone else in a tizzy and made Samsung hurry to beat them to market. No, they won't be first to the market but it was their idea.

[bert]

Then there is the woman in the Toyota SUV I saw yesterday.

She was texting deftly with one hand while driving on the interstate.

The watch would take both hands out of play. Look Ma!! no Hands!!

[gitmo]

A Dick Tracie watch is a fresh idea?

[adorno]

No! You need to check the history.

First off, the smart watch idea has been around since the Dick Tracy cartoons.

Then, actual smart watches were actually developed before even the PC became popular, which all came before the current smartphones and tablets.

Check the history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartwatch

The pebble smartwatch had been in development for years, before Google or Apple became involved.

Apple, has been following the leaders for a while, and while they may come up with some very nice products, they’re always trailing the competition. And now, whatever they put out, is of good quality, but, even in that area, the competition has them beat.

But, hey, it’s okay to be an iFanatic. Nobody will notice if we don’t tell the rest of the world.

Notice the log list of smartwatches in development? Apple is not on the list. Apple is now following even the “unknown” or unheard-of companies

[Swordmaker]

The Rio mp3 player was hugely popular with all the Mac users I knew back at the time, so it didn’t come as a surprise that the iPod took them by storm. The iPod opened the way for the iPhone, which in turn brought in a whole new group of Mac buyers. Apple’s repeatedly not exactly hit it out of the park in the much more natural path of integration represented by streaming video; AppleTV sells a bit of course, but there’s not enough to distinguish it from other streaming vid boxes. I can’t imagine where this watch idea is supposed to lead, or how it is supposed to realistically integrate with lifestyle to become indispensable like their iPhone line.

I don't know about that... the Apple TV has sold upwards of 16 million units so far... that is more than "a bit." None of the others are anywhere close. Apple has actually said absolutely NOTHING about an iWatch. Apple does sell a LOT of streaming video content. This is all rumor and innuendo from analysts with wishful thinking.

[Swordmaker]

Then, actual smart watches were actually developed before even the PC became popular, which all came before the current smartphones and tablets.

Uh, Not exactly, the first watch with any kind of programable memory came out in 1983, certainly post Personal Computer era... Popularity was already a given with the Apple II and Commodore computers coming in 1976, the IBM-PC in 1982. Let's not revise history for your agenda. Watches capable of holding names, addresses, and phone numbers, and a couple of reminders, are certainly NOT the smart watches that are under discussion here, which is what was being discussed in circa 1980s.

Apple, has been following the leaders for a while, and while they may come up with some very nice products, they’re always trailing the competition.

iPads? iPhone? Both the number 1 selling products in the world in their product categories? Always trailing? Not by a long shot. Where are the better selling products? Not the Platform... product. Give an example. Feature lists are not enough. They have to work.

Notice the log list of smart watches in development? Apple is not on the list. Apple is now following even the “unknown” or unheard-of companies

Have you noticed that Apple has never announced they are developing a watch??? Nope. They have not. How can they be on the list of watches in development if they have not made such a development? Apple NEVER makes such announcements until they are ready to ship.

[TheBattman]

#1 - Why would I do that?

#2 - What does that have to do with my post?

[adorno]

Uh, Not exactly, the first watch with any kind of programable memory came out in 1983, certainly post Personal Computer era...

So, does a smartwatch have to be "programmable memory"? The smart part pertains to being able to do more than regular watches. I had a "smart" watch some 30 years ago, when I could do calculations on my "watch" (and yeah, for calculations, memory would be required).

Popularity was already a given with the Apple II and Commodore computers coming in 1976, the IBM-PC in 1982.

Well, dude, I'm not into the fanaticism displayed by those that feel offended by somebody even hinting at something that might take some glory from your preferred company or platform. There are other more important things in life to worry about.

Let's not revise history for your agenda.

So, what would my agenda be? If you know of one that I wasn't aware that I had, please let me know.

Watches capable of holding names, addresses, and phone numbers, and a couple of reminders, are certainly NOT the smart watches that are under discussion here, which is what was being discussed in circa 1980s.

Yet, even smartphones of today are mostly used to do the things that you describe in your list of functions of those "not so smart" watches. Smartwatches and smartphones can do a lot of things, but for the most part, most people don't use the majority of the features or functions or apps designed for them and into them.

Apple, has been following the leaders for a while, and while they may come up with some very nice products, they’re always trailing the competition.

That is a fact, and that is also being talked about around the industry, and even Apple is feeling the heat.

iPads? iPhone? Both the number 1 selling products in the world in their product categories?

Actually, you would be wrong on all counts!

iPads are no longer the best selling tablets. And iPhones are trailing Samsung smartphones by a bid margin. That the iPad and iPhones are very profitable, doesn't mean that they're the best selling. And, iPhones are getting close to being overtaken in Europe, by Windows phones. The luster is wearing off, quickly.

Always trailing?

Yep!!! Trailing! Trailing in "innovations", and Apple is getting worried about how the industry is looking at them. The fact remains that, Apple hasn't really had any real innovations for a very long time, and when they put out the iPhone, it was just the equivalent of a "better mouse trap" in the smartphone arena.

Not by a long shot.

I know it must be hard to take, but YES!, your favorite company has been trailing for a long time in innovative ideas, and now, they're also trailing in market-share.

Where are the better selling products? Not the Platform... product. Give an example. Feature lists are not enough. They have to work.

Samsung has been the leading smartphone maker for a while now, and the Android tablets are beginning to take off, and soon, the iThings will be trailing the competition in everything, including features and variety and applications and just about everything else. Try to keep up with the industry.

Notice the log list of smart watches in development? Apple is not on the list. Apple is now following even the “unknown” or unheard-of companies

The list I provided a link to, doesn't show Apple on it. And that is what I said. Go back and read my previous post. That Apple is not on the list, is indicative of a company that is not leading, and it really hasn't led for ages.

Have you noticed that Apple has never announced they are developing a watch??? Nope. They have not. How can they be on the list of watches in development if they have not made such a development? Apple NEVER makes such announcements until they are ready to ship.

You must be new to the way the technology industry works, especially regarding how Apple works or doesn't work to get products "introduced or even mentioned".

Apple relies on rumors, which, according to many people in the know in the industry, are "purposeful" rumors. Start people talking, and wondering what Apple is up to, and then, whammy!!!, Apple releases a the product rumored about or something close to it. That's the way the iPhone rumors started, and it was the same with the iPads, and the same kind of rumors are being floated right now about a 5 inch iPhone. BTW, a 5 inch iPhone would be the same Apple following the leaders, after those leaders started putting out large screen smartphones a couple years ago.

Sorry you don't like hearing or reading about the reality, but, Apple is not a leader in innovation. I will give them credit for putting out good quality stuff, and neat looking stuff, but technology-wise, Apple trails a whole bunch of others in the industry.

[Swordmaker]

So, does a smartwatch have to be "programmable memory"? The smart part pertains to being able to do more than regular watches. I had a "smart" watch some 30 years ago, when I could do calculations on my "watch" (and yeah, for calculations, memory would be required).

Yeah, Adorno, it does. There are certain technical definitions that apply and to be a smart watch, not a feature watch which have been around for years, there are differences. You can't just define it the way YOU want, and then argue your strawman. That's the way Liberals frame discussions. I didn't think you were one of them. . .

Yet, even smartphones of today are mostly used to do the things that you describe in your list of functions of those "not so smart" watches. Smartwatches and smartphones can do a lot of things, but for the most part, most people don't use the majority of the features or functions or apps designed for them and into them.

Speak for yourself. What you describe are "feature phones," the kind that most Android users wind up using their far more capable smartphones to do and the reason they don't show up much on network statistics. That's why iOS is by far the most used mobile OS on the net, because Apple users do in fact USE their smartphones and iPads as they were intended, as small, portable computers, not just convenient Rolodexes.

Actually, you would be wrong on all counts!

iPads are no longer the best selling tablets. And iPhones are trailing Samsung smartphones by a bid margin. That the iPad and iPhones are very profitable, doesn't mean that they're the best selling. And, iPhones are getting close to being overtaken in Europe, by Windows phones. The luster is wearing off, quickly.

No, I wouldn't. Keep dreaming. In every category the Apple model is the number one selling model, not any other. If you want to count EVERY Samsung phone, you'd be right, but then you'd be counting feature phones and dumb phones as well. This is not up for debate. The iPhone, and iPad, are out selling all other models. The Windows phone has hit a little over 10% in Europe but not broken 2% share in the world market. . . Counting ALL makes of Windows phones. iPhones have greater than 60% of the Japanese market, approaching 60% of the US market. . .

New report says about a third of all tablets sold in 2013 were iPads<

by David Needle February 4 2014

A new report says iPad continues to be the most popular tablet with a healthy 33.9% share of the market, a slight dip from 35.7% for 2012.

The biggest mover in Strategy Analytics report is Samsung which is in second place with a 17.7% share representing over an 80% jump from a year ago.

Despite heavy marketing, Amazon's tablet share in Q4 stayed about the same as a year ago at 6%. Both Lenovo and Acer had triple-digit growth but sales still account for a relatively small piece of the market, shipping just 4 million tablets combined.

More data in TabTimes' continuously updated free online report The State of the Tablet Market

The vast majority of tablets that compete against the iPad are no-name Android white box tablets that sell for less than $50. . . and wind up sitting in drawers, unused. That is why net statistics show that usage on the Internet tops 80%, leaving a paltry 20% for all the rest!

Yep!!! Trailing! Trailing in "innovations", and Apple is getting worried about how the industry is looking at them. The fact remains that, Apple hasn't really had any real innovations for a very long time, and when they put out the iPhone, it was just the equivalent of a "better mouse trap" in the smartphone arena.

Oh? Show me anything in the Windows PC world the equivalent of the new MacPro. How about a cell phone or a tablet from any maker with a 64 bit processor or operating system. Intel has just finished making an Android 64 bit Kernel three weeks ago, but there are no Android 64 bit apps or devices that can take advantage of it yet. . . So, Adorno, who is trailing who on innovation???

The Android tablet apps are pathetic. . . mostly stretched phone apps. . . compared to over half a million optimized and designed for iPad apps on Apple tablets.

You must be new to the way the technology industry works, especially regarding how Apple works or doesn't work to get products "introduced or even mentioned".

Far from being new, Adorno. I've been in this industry for over 40 years, including in the journalistic end of it many years ago. I know far more about it than do you. And one hell of a lot more than you about Apple's DNA and how they announce, and don't announce, products. You haven't a clue. I also know what journalists can list and what they can't list. You obviously don't. Apple never makes any announcements on future products until they are good and ready. They do not leak rumors if they can at all help it. Many rumors are so far away from final released products they are laughable. . . and many rumored products never see the light of day.

I will be really interested in seeing a Windows PC that matches the MacPro in footprint, power consumption, capabilities, cooling ability, operation noise, cost, features, and abilities. . . and yes, innovation.

[adorno]

There are certain technical definitions that apply and to be a smart watch, not a feature watch which have been around for years, there are differences.

So, in order for a smartwatch to be classified as such, it has to show differences from a feature-watch? To many, and perhaps the majority of people, there is a very fine line between the "feature" designation and the "smart" designation. Many feature phones actuall had the "smarts" to be classified as "smartphones" but, since smartphones came loaded with more "features", they somehow became "smarter" or smart? Your definition of "feature" and "smart" only suits your desired definition, or desired outcome. Sound familiar? It's like the desired outcomes that global warming "scientists" wanted the world to believe.

You can't just define it the way YOU want, and then argue your strawman.

Yet, the only one creating the strawman and your own definition, is you. Look in the mirror, and you'll see the person you're describing very clearly.

That's the way Liberals frame discussions.

Well, you seem to understand the process very well. Why are you here? Aren't the liberal web sites exciting you anymore?

I didn't think you were one of them.

And you thought correctly the first time, but now, you want to include me in your liberal thought process.

Yet, even smartphones of today are mostly used to do the things that you describe in your list of functions of those "not so smart" watches. Smartwatches and smartphones can do a lot of things, but for the most part, most people don't use the majority of the features or functions or apps designed for them and into them.

Facts are hard to overcome, and most people still don't use most of the features that come with their smartphones. And most won't ever use more than 10 apps, even as there are many thousands of "free" apps available, and most of the paid are "cheap" to download. So, my comments stand unrefuted by you.

Speak for yourself.

I speak for myself, but I also speak from knowledge about how things actually work in the real world. Most people go with what's popular, and many just follow the crowd. What most smartphone users have in their hands, is what is popular, and not because they actually did any research on what those devices have that people actuallly need.

What you describe are "feature phones," the kind that most Android users wind up using their far more capable smartphones to do and the reason they don't show up much on network statistics.

Well dude, you just made my point. That's exactly what I said before, that, most people use their smartphones as "feature" phones, and don't actually need the other features that come with the more capable smartphones. Same thing would happen with "smartwatches" if they could be called smart.

That's why iOS is by far the most used mobile OS on the net, because Apple users do in fact USE their smartphones and iPads as they were intended, as small, portable computers, not just convenient Rolodexes.

The most "used" mobiel OS is Android, by far. iOS had a lead in the early years after the iPhone was introduced, but the market-share for mobile devices usage, has iOS declining its "share", while Android continues climbing.

"Today, Android runs on 43 percent of all the world’s smartphones while Apple iOS still runs on one in five smartphones.

Of the 227 countries for which data is tracked by StatCounter, Android was the market leader in 135 countries, whereas Apple was the market leader in only 38 countries, including the U.S.

Android’s biggest advantage is that it isn’t tied to a single device manufacturer or relatively limited price point, which is why the Google-owned OS is very popular in countries with low per-capita income. Android isn’t losing any non-price-sensitive consumers either, because companies like Samsung and HTC produce high-end Android-powered phones featuring the newest technology."

http://www.ibtimes.com/android-vs-ios-whats-most-popular-mobile-operating-system-your-country-1464892

iOS might still have great numbers, but, it's headed in the wrong direction: downwards.

Actually, you would be wrong on all counts!

iPads are no longer the best selling tablets. And iPhones are trailing Samsung smartphones by a bid margin. That the iPad and iPhones are very profitable, doesn't mean that they're the best selling. And, iPhones are getting close to being overtaken in Europe, by Windows phones. The luster is wearing off, quickly.

I'm still correct with all my statements above...

No, I wouldn't. Keep dreaming.

This is the real world, and I don't dream about technology or about companies or about devices. But, why do you?

In every category the Apple model is the number one selling model, not any other.

Well, dude, when playing the single model device game, you would be right, but, iPhones compete in the space of MANY, meaning, it's just one of many devices which occupy the competitive space of "smartphones", and when it comes to the larger ecosystem, the totality of Android devices have iPhones beat by a mile. Heck, iPhones have HTC beat by many miles, but the, HTC is just one of many, and when one talks about the competition, it's about the OS supported devices, and when it comes to Android, it's got iOS beat by a few miles.

If you want to count EVERY Samsung phone, you'd be right, but then you'd be counting feature phones and dumb phones as well.

Well, again, you're playing the game with your simple set of rules, but, that's not how the competition in smartphones works. The competition is composed of many players, and Samsung is the one player with the most smartphones, and the biggest variety of them. iPhones come in simple variety of "release cycles', meanning that, the variety is made up of new and older and oldest, but in reality, it's just the same iPHone with some minor upgrades for each new release cycle. Samsung has iPhones beat handily, and the whole Android marketplace has Android phones beating iPHones by a lot of miles.

This is not up for debate.

You sound like a well-trained liberal, with the "debate is settled" argument. But, the debate really is settled when it comes to smartphones, and Samsung alone has iPhones trailing badly, and when the whole Android set of phones are counted, Apple is even further behind. Those are real facts, and the "debate is over"..

The iPhone, and iPad, are out selling all other models.

Then, you must be looking at figures from 2 or 3 years ago, because, current figures have iPHones coming in second, but way behind Andriod phones, and iPads might still be selling well, but, declining and in danger of becoming also rans in about another year.



WP is already ahead of iPhones in many European countries, and growing. iPhones are in danger of becoming #3 in all of Europe soon. WP wasn't even available in most parts of the world last year, in reality, at this stage after thier release, they have more smartphones sales than iPhones did at the same stage. When it comes to wordwide market share, I've heard that WP is closer to 3.2% and rising, while iOS is losing market share, even as it still has good sales.

"For 2013, the Microsoft mobile operating system placed third with 3.2 percent of the market share. "

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/7356/20140215/ios-vs-android-windows-phone-market-share-2013-google-smartphones.htm

Counting ALL makes of Windows phones. iPhones have greater than 60% of the Japanese market, approaching 60% of the US market. .

Well, you can go ahead and pick and choose the numbers which make you feel comfortable, but the fact remains that, Android is still way ahead of iOS worldwide, by a lot, while WP is on the rise, and Apple's devices are on the decliine.

New report says about a third of all tablets sold in 2013 were iPads

Well, there you have it. iPad "only" have 1/3 of sales, whereas, everybody else is rising in sales, and iPads continue dropping in market share.

A new report says iPad continues to be the most popular tablet with a healthy 33.9% share of the market, a slight dip from 35.7% for 2012.

There you go again, making the points for me which I've been making all along. The point being that, Apple's share of tablets sold is decreasing, while the competition is taking off. Android tablets sales are way ahead of iPad sales, and Windows tablets are just beginning to make noise, and they too, will eventually overtake iPad sales; it's just a matter of time.

The biggest mover in Strategy Analytics report is Samsung which is in second place with a 17.7% share representing over an 80% jump from a year ago.

Well, there you go again. Picking and choosing the figures and reports that make you feel comfortable.

Fact: iPads compete against Android tablets and Window-powered tablets. iPads are falling behind, while total sales of all Android tablets has overtaken iPads, and then, you have Windows tablets on the rise too. Try looking a the total picture, rather then the bits that make you feel comfortable.

Despite heavy marketing, Amazon's tablet share in Q4 stayed about the same as a year ago at 6%.

That's fine and dandy, but, irrelevant for the total picture. Fact is that, that 6% is just part of the big picture for tablets sales. Android tablets sales, including the Amazon devices, are way ahead of iPads. It's as simple as that.

Both Lenovo and Acer had triple-digit growth but sales still account for a relatively small piece of the market, shipping just 4 million tablets combined.

Again, you're picking and choosing the minor points which make you feel comfortable. Lenovo and Acer and all others that make tablets, are all part of the "competing team", the team being composed of all Android tablets, and, those are actually beating iPads very handily. That's not counting the many millions of Surface tablets sold, which also keep iPads from gaining market share, and actually have iPads losing market share.

More data in TabTimes' continuously updated free online report The State of the Tablet Market

No matter where YOUR chosen data comes from, it's still not going to undo the real facts on the ground.

The vast majority of tablets that compete against the iPad are no-name Android white box tablets that sell for less than $50. . .

That might be a fact, and even I have major problems with what people are being sold, and which count as tablets for Android. Having said, that ,the fact remains that, they're Android tablets, and for a lot of people, those tablets might suffice to keep them or their children occupied. The major fact remains that, they didn't have to pay the "Apple tax" to own a simple "media/entertainment device". BTW, not all of them are $50 devices, and many are $100 and above devices, which are quite capable, and offer capabilities about equal to, or better than what iPads offer. The matter remains that, those are tablets, and when a sale is made of one of them, it takes away from the iPad market share, which means that, whoever purchases a "non-iPad" tablet, won't be buying an iPad, which, again, hurts the iPad marketshare. It's as simple as that, dude.

and wind up sitting in drawers, unused.

Heck, that happens with iPads too, and in fact, the original iPad has been orphaned by the newer iOS versions, which means that, they're likely to be collecting dust on a shelf or corner or closet somewhere; and that device is barely 4 years old, and cost a lot of money to own, which tells people to stay away from Apple devices, which might become orphaned and unusable 3 or 4 years after purchase.

That is why net statistics show that usage on the Internet tops 80%, leaving a paltry 20% for all the rest!

Well, dude, the competition has had less time in getting started, especially when it comes to Windows-powered devices. When it comes to iOS devices, well, what else are they going to use, since the vast majority of them won't have Macs to use for internet stuff. Spending $600-$900 on an Apple device, tends to leave those people with not too much disposable incoome to get a PC; which leads me to the next point. The bigger point is that, when it comes to internet usage, over 80% of people use PCs to do their browsing and content consumption, which then leaves all tablets and smartphones combined, with less than 20% of internet usage. Thus, even that 80% that Apple might have for internet usage with their devices, turns out to be a very minor share of internet usage.

Yep!!! Trailing! Trailing in "innovations", and Apple is getting worried about how the industry is looking at them. The fact remains that, Apple hasn't really had any real innovations for a very long time, and when they put out the iPhone, it was just the equivalent of a "better mouse trap" in the smartphone arena.

Those comments are still true, like them or not!

Oh? Show me anything in the Windows PC world the equivalent of the new MacPro.

Oh? How about any PC that is equivalently equipped with hardware, and that runs Windows Pro? Remember that, whatever a MacPro has, is made from components available to the Windows OEMs too, and even to Microsoft. But, what good is a powerful MacPro, if it doesn't have the client base? The MacPro is not much more than a marketing gimmick, since, there aren't too many takers for something that can cost around $10,000 for something that can be made a lot cheaper by others? My daughter just bought a couple of servers from Lenovo for her business, and they were tailored for her business, and each of them offer about as much power as a comparabley equipeed MacPro, and both of them together cost less than $5,000. Yep! Apple, the dinosaur!

How about a cell phone or a tablet from any maker with a 64 bit processor or operating system.

The Surface tablets, and other OEM tablets with i5 and i7 processors, were out a long time before any iPad or iPhone 64 bit devices. And, when it comes to the usability or necessity of 64 bits on a smartphone, is actually overkill and unnecessary. But, smartphones and tablets with 64 bits will become the norm in a few months. even as it's still overkill. The 64 bits is already the "norm" with Windows devices, and with Windows 7 and Windows 8, so, again, Apple is playing catch-up.

Intel has just finished making an Android 64 bit Kernel three weeks ago, but there are no Android 64 bit apps or devices that can take advantage of it yet. . . So, Adorno, who is trailing who on innovation???

Again, you have no understanding of what real innovation is about. Innovation is not about slapping a useless 64 bit processor on a device. It's about actually creating a usable device with the technology. 64 bits that is overkill and unneeded, is the same as putting a 600 horsepower engine on a Chevy Cruze. DUMB!!! But, for Apple it's not dumb, since they still have the Apple fanatics, like you, who'll eat it up, and will plunk down $600 for something which is totally without need or use. So, who's fooling who? Apple has all of you people eating all of its crap, while they take your money and put it into its huge stash of cash.

The Android tablet apps are pathetic. . . mostly stretched phone apps. . . compared to over half a million optimized and designed for iPad apps on Apple tablets.

Fact: over 65% of apps in Apple's apps store, go unnoticed and unused and never get downloaded. Only a tiny percentage are of actual value to the consumer. Apps count is just a marketing strategy, and of little use to Apple device users. I have no illusions about the quality of Android apps, but the vast majority of them are of no use, and never used. The apps ecosystems are a major con job for the OS makers. Some of the better apps. come already includded with the devices, like connectivity to the social sites, and Skype, and GPS and other such software. In fact, with my LG G2, I haven't had to buy any app from Google's store, and I haven't even had to investigate what comes for free, since, they're of little use to me. And I'm pretty sure that most people are like me, but many might have a use for a few more apps than I have.

You must be new to the way the technology industry works, especially regarding how Apple works or doesn't work to get products "introduced or even mentioned".

I still feel that way about you, no matter how long you've been in the industry. Some people can work in an industry, and still be very clueless about a lot of it.

Far from being new, Adorno. I've been in this industry for over 40 years, including in the journalistic end of it many years ago.

Well, I've got you beat by a few years, and I spent most of it doing the actuall hard work, including programming and analysis and project management and department managemen, and I even owned by own consulting firm, with a few people working for me and around me. Most of my years were spent on mainframes and on mini-computers, and I had my first introduction into PCs when the first McIntosh came out, but even before that, I was fluent on the Ataris and Commodores and a few others.

I know far more about it than do you.

Highly doubtful, and according to your comments, not even close. You operate from a fanboi mentality, with Apple being your mothership, and you would probably sacrifice your pets to defend Apple. ;)

And one hell of a lot more than you about Apple's DNA and how they announce, and don't announce, products. You haven't a clue.

Well, dude, the famous ways that Apple "dropped hints" or "had leaks occur" or "accidentally left a device on a bar counter", are well-known, but that gimmick got pretty old after the first few times, and now, they use "leaked rumors" to get people "excited" about things that might come or not. Like, the famous Apple TV leaks, and the famous Apple gaming device which never happened, or the famous "motion sensing tech" which never came. People are out there, trying to create buzz about Apple's next big thing. But, people aren't buying, and Apple aint doing anything to get people excited. They're just the iPhone and iPad makers, with tiny tweaks to those devices every 6-8 months, while nothing real in innovations.

I also know what journalists can list and what they can't list.

I know what I see and read, and I read extensive from technology tech sites and blogs, and when it comes to Apple, it's one love-affair after another, and Apple is the darling of the tech blogging world. You're obviously one that has had a long-running love affair with Apple, and it makes no sense whatsover. There are far too many people that need to get their life's priorities straight, and you are a prime candidate for that.

You obviously don't.

No, I've got better things to do. I don't go around kissing butts, and I don't have love affairs with inanimate objects, like companies and devices or software. I just use them when needed, and I have no favorites, other than the ones which will get the job done for me, at reasonable and affordable prices. I don't go goo-goo over 64 bits processors when they're not needed, and I don't go for the hype.

Apple never makes any announcements on future products until they are good and ready.

You could say the same for all technology companies, and Apple is the worst when it comes to the hype buildup for a new release. At ZDNet, people were speculating about the "new" iPhones, with the colorful "lower-priced" devices to come, and the new 5S device with the 64 bits processor, with iOS 7. We knew about 2 months ahead of time, and the Apple fanatics were saying that they wanted one, no matter what, and without knowing what was really coming. With Apple, it's just about equivalent to a religion, and one which can be compared to how the global warming people feel about their "science".

They do not leak rumors if they can at all help it.

Oh, but they do "help it". They do it all the time, and they've been doing it forever. The Apple religion depends on the hype and the game of leaks and rumors. It's how Apple keeps people interested, even if there is nothing real to get excited about.

Many rumors are so far away from final released products they are laughable. . . and many rumored products never see the light of day.

We knew about Siri weeks before the 4S came out, and we knew about the iPad weeks in advance, and we knew about the MacPro before it debuted. So, where have you been?

I will be really interested in seeing a Windows PC that matches the MacPro in footprint, power consumption, capabilities, cooling ability, operation noise, cost, features, and abilities. . . and yes, innovation.

I've already said how useless a MacPro is in the real world. No manufacturer should be producing a device with no real market as a target. The MacPro was created with the "wow" factor, but not with the "you need this" factor in mind. But like I said before, there is nothing in the MacPro that can't be produced by any competitor, since, components-wise, it's all made from "boilerplate" technology.

Again, you misunderstand the word "innovation". There is nothing in the MacPro that is innovative, other than the shape of the machine. All of the "innovation" belongs to the manufacturers and designers of the components.

To boot, a machine can be created that can match the components of the MacPro. Heck anybody can create a much better machine with much better components than Apple put into the MacPro, but why? The target clients won't be really interested in paying $8,000-$10,000 for a machine which will be overkill for their needs. For perhaps $5000, a similarly equipped machine can be built. And that machine can be equipped with either Windows 8.1 or Linux, both of which are more powerful than Maverics, and much more useful. And all of that for a much lower price. Innovation is not about slapping components together into a neat looking device. It's a lot moe about practicality and usefulness and price.

Apple does have one thing going for it that neither Google nor Microsoft possess: it's the rabidly loyal fanatics that will purchase any Apple device, no matter how behind he times that device and/or software might be.

And,hey, get a life. Kissing Apple's butt is no way to live, unless you're a paid employee or a huge stock owner of theirs. Otherwise, you're probably losing a lot of sleep, just trying to defend Apple.

[Swordmaker]

I’m not going waste my time responding to your ad hominem filled humongous screed. It’s not worth it. I see what you’re doing and so does everyone else. You are comparing Apple’s three iPhones and two iPads PRODUCTS which ARE the best selling models in their market categories according to all statistics to ALL of the models manufactured by all competitors as a whole and the entire Android PLATFORM to denigrate Apple falsely. You fail to provide responsive replies but redirect to YOUR red herrings and strawman arguments with false claims such as there being “no market for the MacPro” when Apple is making thousands of the per day and cannot meet the demand, or “there is no innovation in the MacPro” when all the reviews are raving about that innovation, but you fail to show any competition that equals it. BAH! Go away. I’m done.

The one thing I will state that you cannot refute is that Apple took home 78.7% of ALL mobile device PROFITS in the fourth quarter of 2013. They care less about market share that means nothing. . . The holders of that market share, except for Samsung, are all losing money. . . And even Samsung’s profit share dropped in the last full quarter! Market share means nothing if you’re pumping money out the door to buy it, Adorno. Have you looked at Samsung’s advertising budget that is NOT CHARGED Against THEIR CELL PHONE DIVISION??? It’s astronomical.

[adorno]

I’m not going waste my time responding to your ad hominem filled humongous screed.

Oh, don't take it so personally. It's only Apple and it's religious followers that I was sniping at. If you feel personally assaulted, then it must be because, you're one of those followers. BTW, have you seen the TV show, "The Following"? Consider Apple in place of "Joe" and you'll come close to what Apple represents. Which one of the "followers" are you closest to representing?

It’s not worth it.

Yet, you found it worthwhile to attack my prior posts in this discussion. Methinks that, you're losing the argument, and you can't take the heat anymore.

I see what you’re doing and so does everyone else.

Nope! You're imagining me doing something which I'm not doing. I'm merely presenting the facts, and you can't handle them. So, you do like the "global warming" idiots, and you have to attack the opposition that has the facts on their side. I must be a "denier" and a heretic to you, regarding the Apple religion.

You are comparing Apple’s three iPhones and two iPads PRODUCTS which ARE the best selling models in their market categories according to all statistics to ALL of the models manufactured by all competitors as a whole and the entire Android PLATFORM to denigrate Apple falsely.

Well dude, the facts are that, Apple's iOS devices are only made by one company, and it competes in a marketplace where the competition is composed of many players, and thus, it's only fair to compare the whole Android ecosystem to the competing iOS ecosystem.

You might be right when it comes to single providers of devices, but again, that would be unfair, since, we're talking about iOS, which is only composed of one maker, that being Apple. The competition for Apple is not Samsung, nor HTC nor LG nor any other single Android player. The competition for Apple is anything that keeps Apple from selling their devices to the potential buyers who, if the competition weren't there, would be buying just iOS devices. I guess the logic is too hard for you to understand, since your judgement is clouded by the Apple religion.

You fail to provide responsive replies but redirect to YOUR red herrings and strawman arguments with false claims such as there being “no market for the MacPro” when Apple is making thousands of the per day and cannot meet the demand, or “there is no innovation in the MacPro” when all the reviews are raving about that innovation, but you fail to show any competition that equals it. BAH! Go away. I’m done.

I'm going nowhere, and as long as there are people like you so misinformed and spreading misinformation, I'll stick around.

"Red herring and strawman arguments"? You sound like you're badly losing the argument. When somebody resorts to calling the others' arguments "red herrings" or "strawman arguments", it's only because, they have no real rebuttal arguments. So, you need to try to disarm the opposition by labeling their arguments as diversions and unworthy, but, the facts still remain on my side.

Look, nobody is claiming that the new MacPro is not a nice device to own. My argument is still true, that, the computer is not anything that is truly innovative. It's made from boilerplate components which have been available to all other OEMS, and which those OEMs could easily duplicate. The problem for the other OEMs is that, they're not known for creating and selling high-priced devices, and their acceptance in the high-price arena would not be as easily accpeted as what Apple produces. After all, Apple is known as the high-price leader, even when the devices don't really offer anything innovative. The only "innovation" that appears to come with the MacPro, is the trash can shape. While it's true that the entire device as a whole might constitute some "innovation" because of all the components that were put together so nicely, it's still not innovation per se, in regards to innovative advancements.

You claim that the device is selling nicely, and even Apple makes the statement that it's having a hard time keeping up with demand, but, where the heck are the figures to prove anything? Apple can make the claim that it's having a hard time meeting demand, but that could easily be because they're having a hard time producing enough for even slow demand. Apple is being careful with producing too many of the devices, because, the demand for large numbers of them may never be there, so, they have to produce enough for just what's been "pre-ordered", and even that could be a low number.

The one thing I will state that you cannot refute is that Apple took home 78.7% of ALL mobile device PROFITS in the fourth quarter of 2013.

I never argued against the profits that Apple makes, or about how much more profitable they are than the competition. So, it's you that's introducing a strawman argument here. I only argued about market share, which is VERY IMPORTANT, whether you want to admit it or not.

They care less about market share that means nothing. . .

Here's where you're making a huge mistake. Market share is very important to a company or to any individual ecosystem.

Apple may have the profits, but, if the competition sells more of those devices, and they're adequate enough for the buyers to come back in the future for more of the same, that will keep Apple from ever winning the business from that consumer in the future. And, the more people notice a set of devices which work fot others, the more they'll tend to look to get themselves one of them, and if the price is a lot less than for a comparable equipped iPhone or iPad, then, it's a no-brainer that, people will get the bettor or as-good-as device which costs a lot less.

Plus, device sales is not the only thing that matters. Android and iOS and WP, all have their ecosystesm, and those ecosystems have services and software which create "after sales" revenue and profits. The more devices that are out there for a particular ecosystem, the bigger the potential for revenue and profits for the WHOLE ecosystem. So, a device could cost 1/2 or 1/3 of what the iPhone goes for, but, chances are that, that device will have a bigger potential for more after-sales revenue and profits, than the lesser-sales iOS devices. Apple still does well with their ecosystem, but as the market-share for the competition grows, the bigger the potential for those other ecosystems in the future. If Apple drops down to around 10% of market share, and Android holds on to their 80%, eventually Android will be more profitable for the Android OEMs and even for Google. Same goes with WP, which is still growiing, but it's also taking away market-share from Apple. So, don't be so short-sighted when talking about how profitable the devices are for Apple. Apple is worried, and they are looking to try other things, because, the iPhone and iPads have been beginning to lose market share.

The holders of that market share, except for Samsung, are all losing money. .

Samsung is doing okay, but some of the others are also beginning to earn some revenue from Android devices. But, it's still a long-term strategy, and the strategy is to take away from Apple sales, and make Apple into just another smartphone maker, that won't be so relevant in the future. In fact, I foresee where Apple will drop to being the "5% company" in iOS devices, that it already is in "PCs". Apple: the 5% company. 5% marketshare, which is traditional for Apple.

. And even Samsung’s profit share dropped in the last full quarter!

What happened to Samsung, is a reflective of the whole market. Smartphone sales are beginning to level off, and to even drop in some markets. Smartphones are beginning to experience the same effects that PCs have been suffering from in the last 3-4 years, which is that, they're good enough to keep for longer than 1-2 years, and will last 3-5 years, and so, upgrades won't be happening as often as they used to; no need to upgrade when the device on-hand is good enough, and the new "advancements" aren't really worth it. Apple too is experience a loss of market share, and people are beginning to hold on to their iOS devices a little longer.

The other big thing that people fail to consider whan talking about sales and profits, is the economy. With rotten economies everywhere, especially in the EU markets and in many other areas fo the world, people won't be having the "disposable" income to upgrade as often as they did 2-4 years ago. The serice providers are having to resort to the gimmick of allowing users to "upgrade in the middle of a contract" because, they're not getting as much in new sales as they or the OEMs were getting in years past. The maturity of the smartphone market is only going to make matters worse for Apple and Androd device makers, and for Windows Phones and tablets.

And, here I thought that I was talking to an informed FR member, but, you don't seem to understand a lot of how the real world works. including economic matters.

Tell you what: drop the Apple religion, and you'll have time to become better educated on all other matters.

Market share means nothing if you’re pumping money out the door to buy it, Adorno.

Spending money for expectations of future revenue and profits, is what the free-market is all about. Sometimes, a company will be in the hole for many years, before the results start showing how right a company was. XBox was a money loser for quite a while for Microsoft, but, it's getting turned around, and they're actually making money with it now. WP is losing money for MS now, but, they have to persist, until it starts making money. Remember that, an ecosystem is not just about the hardware; it's about the hardware and the software, and the after-sales market for services and additional software sales.

Have you looked at Samsung’s advertising budget that is NOT CHARGED Against THEIR CELL PHONE DIVISION??? It’s astronomical.

Samsung is a very profitable company, and if one of their divisions is not earning so much at the moment, it's not an indication that it will be forever a loser.

ON the other hand, Apple has just been riding their iPhone and iPad gravy train, and is not investing enough on future projects or new innovations. That is a huge mistake, and like I said, a lot of other companies are doing more innovations than Apple, and Apple has actually fallen behind since their last "innovation" when the iPhone redefined the smartphone market.

That is one of the reasons that Apple's stock has fallen so hard from the highs of about 1 1/2 years ago. In reality, if they don't do anything soon, their stock will drop a lot more, and might settle to around $200 billion or less. Keep watching, because, 2 years ago, I had predicted Apple's market share to drop 200 billion years, and they actually dropped more than that, and now, I'm predicting that they'll drop another $100-200 billion in about 1-2 years, unless they come up with some new gadget or innovation to save them. Incremental gimmicks to their iPhone and iPads, are not real innovations, nor are they new devices, nor are they superior to what the competition offers.

[TheBattman]

I am always amazed at how folks, even on a supposedly "Conservative" message board use the exact same tactics as the Marxist/Progressive/Socialists on the other side of the political isle (techniques that we loathe and blast at every opportunity). Straw arguments, logical fallacies, and just plain exaggerations and lies.

I use to be very much an Apple fan. Still am, though Apple has lost a great deal of its "shine" for me over the last several years. I recently purchased my first android device, a tablet. I like it an use it somewhat regularly - but am already seeing what others have said for quite some time - iOS is still clearly superior in many ways - compatibility and stability being some of the most obvious. Android is awful at memory utilization. Apps have far fewer "restrictions" in Android, which means they can often conflict or hog resources. - But for me - ⅓ the price for the device - I can tolerate it.

Nothing I have found even comes close to the seamlessness of the "Apple Eco-system". My iPhone syncs data/info with my MacBook Pro without so much as a cable or any interaction on my part. My calendars and contacts stay in sync without having to juggle devices or web sites. I have found a way to keep my Android tablet in sync with my contacts, but requires a bit of a kludge.

Apple has had some issues, some of which have quite literally angered me... but I don't harbor the illogical and irrational hate for any particular product line or company that you are clearly showing. Did Steve Jobs take a leak in your Cheerio's at some point in the past? Did he get your daughter pregnant? Good grief! If you want to argue facts - then feel free. But don't resort to the same dishonest tactics of the very political Jihadis we love to hate here on FR to make your flawed arguments. Indeed - I will read and listen to any sane, well thought-out, and fact-based argument on FR (and many other sites, even those that don't match my own views).

[Swordmaker]

Oh, don't take it so personally. It's only Apple and it's religious followers that I was sniping at. If you feel personally assaulted, then it must be because, you're one of those followers. BTW, have you seen the TV show, "The Following"? Consider Apple in place of "Joe" and you'll come close to what Apple represents. Which one of the "followers" are you closest to representing?

My aren't you a nasty, acerbic, and vile piece of work. Waste of FR band width. . . Filled with anti-Apple mythology. Get lost.

[Swordmaker]

And, here I thought that I was talking to an informed FR member, but, you don't seem to understand a lot of how the real world works. including economic matters.

After posting lies that are completely untrue. . . Especially about the Mac's market share which has been steadily GAINING market share while Windows PCs have been steadily loosing market share, your claim that I do not understand economics is totally laughable. My DEGREE is in Economics with a minor in Finance, you idiot, which I have posted on FR many times before. You made a claim about being a businessman. . . So am I. . . probably with one hell of a lot more experience than you. Your claims about market share pale in comparison to PROFIT SHARE. . . Which demonstrate your cluelessness. According to The Wall Street Journal on January 24, 2014, Apple's 5% by unit sales took home more than 50% of the PROFIT SHARE in the computer market in 2013 as well. . . and Apple has NEVER cared about dominating the market share, nor have they ever sought to dominate that market. The value of stock has very little to do with how well a company is actually is doing. . . especially a company like Apple.

Your claim of secondary markets as going to be driven by Android or Wp ecosystems is false as well. Right now here are the audio system being made for Android devices? Go into any mall and show us the kiosks of cases for every model of Android phone and Tablet for sale. You WILL find thousands of cases for iPhones, iPads, iPad minis with a small selection for only the most popular Android phones from Samsung and HTC, and there are literally hundreds of devices from various makers that will mount iDevices from simple speaker systems all the way to automobiles with built in interfaces for iOS devices, but none specifically designed for your vaunted Android compatibility connection. That thriving after-market you hope for is driven by iOS, not by the fragmented Android ecosystem where the potential for sales of aftermarket gear is far more limited by the difficulty of matching the hundreds of form-factors, multiple generations of Android versions still in use in devices that cannot be upgraded or haven't been upgrade, or have manufacturer limited versions of Android. Even the hoped for market in cases is abortive because the economics of the Android handset market is too restrictive as cost factors/profit potential before a particular design is superseded by the next, result in too short a window of sales opportunity for retailers to market cases sensibly. . . and there are simply too many variations for retailers to keep a sensible variety on hand to please Android users. The real world profits are being made by companies making accessories for iOS devices. Same for Apps. These are facts. Not the wishful thinking factoids YOU spout. Like you, Android users simply don't buy Apps. They, like you, are CHEAP!

As to other manufacturers easily making a computer like the MacPro. Fine. I've challenged you to show us one. Where is it? Several PC reviewers have attempted to assemble an equivalently specced Windows PC to the MacPro for a similar price and failed at the cost of the processors alone. . . before they got to the dual graphic cards, high speed SSD, let alone attempting to duplicate keeping it cool with a single fan. So, where is it??? The figures you so blithely tossed out show you really don't know what you are talking about. So answer the question you claim is so easy. Prove it. Put up, or shut up!

We've put up with claims like your for years. . . and they have been just more of the same. Myths. Lies. Redirection without proof. Your unsupported opinion. As it stands right now, 69% of new iPhone buyers come from ex-Android users. Very few iPhone users go the other way. They do exist, but are very rare.

You previously asked what I thought was your Agenda. I think everyone who reads your ignorant rants knows that you have a decided agenda. . . You make it plain. You are on an an Agenda to destroy Apple and bring enlightenment to all us poor fools who you think are misguided into buying what YOU think are a waste of money. Consider us told. Now, go pee in someone else's pool.

[TheBattman]

Oh, don't take it so personally. It's only Apple and it's religious followers that I was sniping at. If you feel personally assaulted, then it must be because, you're one of those followers. BTW, have you seen the TV show, "The Following"? Consider Apple in place of "Joe" and you'll come close to what Apple represents. Which one of the "followers" are you closest to representing?

So now Apple is the leader of a murderous blood-cult? Wow... who would have known. Guess I am falling down on my duty to the cult leader... the only killing I've done is of whitetail deer...