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Rob Bell, Homosexuality, and the New Cultural Acceptance
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood ^ | 03/19/2013 | Owen Strachan

Posted on 03/23/2013 2:11:02 PM PDT by BurningOak

With that said and meant, this shift is altogether unsurprising. The new mark of being culturally acceptable is affirming homosexuality as virtuous (not merely okay, but virtuous, even exemplary). This is the litmus test. I don’t think many of us expected that it would so quickly fill this role, but it has. The mark of being a progressive, kind, socially courageous person today is simply this: affirming same-sex marriage. There are other cardinal virtues of a contemporary au courant identity, but this is the lodestar, the one that hangs one’s personal moon.

This shows us that the cultural middle is indeed vanishing. The space where broad-minded people could hang out is rapidly disappearing. Either you are for same-sex marriage or not. If you’re not, and you’re a known commodity, you’re now behind the curve in a public, image-driven sense. Expect in coming days to see a veritable torrent of declarations of affirmation of SSM. Celebrities, news anchors, intellectuals, politicians, religious types, tycoons, and many more are heading to the pro-marriage exits. They’re going to be calling press conferences as quickly as they can. They’ll be getting into line with the value that drives the New Cultural Acceptance: affirming same-sex marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbmw.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: bell; cbmw; celebrateperversity; celebratesin; culture; culturewar; freeloveisntfree; homonaziagenda; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexuals; lavendermafia; marriage; owenstrachan; pinkjournalism; religion; religiousleft; religiousliberty; religiouspersecution; robbell; sexpositiveagenda; sexualsin; sin; sodomy
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Objective reality exists. Truth exists, and its opposite, lies or illusion. Right and good and virtue exist, and the opposite - wrong and sin and evil.

There's a war on. We all get to choose which side we want to be on.

Anyone wanting on/off either list, FREEPMAIL me.

51 posted on 03/23/2013 9:09:01 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: ReformationFan

What is the Emergent Movement?


52 posted on 03/23/2013 9:19:07 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: BurningOak

Yes. That was excellently written. I agree with the points made. Personally? I have nothing against homosexuals. They’re simply sinners, but if they think it’s OK to do what they do, I’m sorry for them.

The Bible is quite clear on the matter. So-called Christians who say it’s OK are also wrong. They can take it up with Christ.

Like I wrote, no one has to answer to me, but they do have to answer to Christ. That will be a very, very terrible thing, especially for someone, like a member of the pro-homosexual clergy, who claims to speak with God’s authority and tells people they can keep sinning.

Christ loves us with a divine love that’s beyond any earthly love. He didn’t tell the prostitute to keep doing what she was doing. He told her to go forth and sin no more. How in the world can professing Christians, if that’s what they really are, tell sinners to keep sinning???


53 posted on 03/23/2013 10:37:56 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: Hayride

Hayride: “Believe and be obedient or don’t waste your time folks.”

The greatest commandment is to love God. The Bible says we demonstrate our love of God by obeying Him. The second greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. When you love someone, you don’t let them die in their sins. You try to reach them with the truth, so they can be saved.

Homosexual sex is sinful. I didn’t make the rules. God did. Like you wrote, I don’t know why people even bother trying to make scripture say what it quite clearly does not say. If they refuse to repent, why not just toss the Bible in the trash and do what they please? Why bother trying to justify themselves and their sins?


54 posted on 03/23/2013 10:50:04 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: Longbow1969; hosepipe
If you believe this you either aren't paying attention or have intentionally buried your head in the sand.

I actually agree with hosepipe. We are witnessing the greatest mass delusion of the ages. No, people didn't vote for Obama despite his support for fake marriage. This was the most corrupt elections in this nation's history- MILLIONS of votes were stolen for Obama. Fake polls abound, churned out by people who could care less about the truth, only their agenda.

You are falling for the psy-ops.

55 posted on 03/24/2013 12:09:29 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Army Air Corps

Rob Bell came out of the Emergent Church movement about 10 years ago. A group of pastors got together to address the question of an aging, dying church population. They asked the question, “how do we get young people back into church?” Among those in the movement were Bell, Brian McLaren, Mark Driscoll, Dan Kimball, John Piper, et.al. They branched almost immediately, with pastors like Driscoll and Piper adhering to gospel while reaching the youth through their culture, and others like Bell and McLaren re-molding scripture to fit the culture.


56 posted on 03/24/2013 2:49:42 AM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: CitizenUSA
"... How in the world can professing Christians, if that’s what they really are, tell sinners to keep sinning???

I would also add: By telling us that God really wants us to accept (not just tolerate) homosexuality, isn't Rob Bell really telling us that God was wrong all along, that scripture is fallible? If that's the case then shouldn't we revise the Bible to fit God's "new will", i.e. strip out the entirety of Deuteronomy and Corinthians for starters? And isn't Bell telling us that he's here to deliver a "new covenant" to God's children, i.e. he's on par with Jesus?

It doesn't really scare me that there are people out there like Bell--nothing new under the sun; what scares me is that so many take this clown seriously.

57 posted on 03/24/2013 3:03:24 AM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: BurningOak
Of the people who agree with Owen Strachen, how many send their children into the godless government schools where they will be fully indoctrinated in the pro homosexual agenda?
58 posted on 03/24/2013 5:44:23 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: little jeremiah

damn right this is war .

I;ve just bene flicming through chanels and saw NBC wiht that liberal fairy woman David Gregory who had 4 people on.
One for normal marriage and the other 3 against normal marriage.

Yet again all the keywords were there, equality but they don;t want polygamy, fairness and then they had the lawyer who argued the case last week and he said he feels this will be more than a 5-4 verdict his way and the way for homosexuals.

His argument was based on 3 points which was bizarre.
first being that children are being hurt who are raised by homosexuals because they cannot marry , HUH they should not have kids in the first place there fore his argument is moot.

it is a right to marry and this is on par with telling blacks they cannot marry which again is bogus.


59 posted on 03/24/2013 7:32:03 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: BurningOak
Great post I was pinged to off LJ.

I saw NBC have their vultures on for their sham marriage and only one guy was for our side, so much for fairness from NBC ARF

Also all their arguments are used for polygamy and yet they shout equality and ignore equality can mean any kind of sham marriage.

If anyone advocates marriage for these homosexuals then they are not conservatives and should not even be in the republican party.

I'm sick of reading or hearing some state how they are conservatives and then advocate far left positions, even commie positions like homosexual agenda, all drugs legal, etc
Then they use the Govt out of it words and yet they are left , radical left positions.

NBC and the media keep harping on about the polls and yet other polls show differently but they chose to ignore those.
As for polls , well how many state they are for it and then vote against it, I know a few around here who have done the same.

Here we have polls showing that most think the country has gone socially wrong and would include in peoples minds the werido’s today who think they;re evn a girl when they;re a boy etc

60 posted on 03/24/2013 7:42:39 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: mardi59

same here.
I couldn;t careless if I and my family were the last people on this earth who stood for normal marriage as I will never accept that perversion.
The disease, what they have sex with, etc disgusts me and it will never mean they are married and sofr their key words like equality

Please equality and every argument can be used for any kind of marriage so that is all a cop out.


61 posted on 03/24/2013 7:45:18 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: hosepipe

agree, the polls and media is all left wing, and like another freeper told me the other day.
around 35% of the media is a homosexual as is Hollywood and they mention this issue every day and have a bully pulpit to do so.

Anyone thinking the media and polls are telling the truth are living in la la land.

I’m not holding out much in this decision because these judges and their wives or husbands go to their cocktail parties with these people and they won;t want to upset them and know they might be outcasts in the DC elitist cocktail partt scene.

At best we might get state rights becuase if they scrap that too themn millions upon tens of millions of votes have been cast aside and ignored.


62 posted on 03/24/2013 7:50:30 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Longbow1969

polls mean nothing as people say one thing and thnk another and I know a few who do that .
Also the polls are scewed to suit their agendas and lets not forget the polls and media are left wing for the most part.

If our side had any guts and stopped the fake conservatives from using our platforms to spout their agendas, like Paul, if they had the guts to stand on conservative social issues from the get go then we would not be at ths point.

If churches, talk radio and other talking heads had defended marriage then we would not be at this point and if they act surprised then they are cowards as most conservatives knew this was coming


63 posted on 03/24/2013 7:53:15 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ilovesarah2012

If anyone ever tewlls me that they are married or homosexuals are married then I will tell them that they are ot, they;re in a sham , they;re fooling themselves and if they get this decision then the next step is ot teach this in all schools, to then lower the age of consent to 12 years old and then BINGO.

the homosexuals get their way after all these years, sex with little boys

To hell with them as I will never accept their lifestyle


64 posted on 03/24/2013 7:58:11 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Bryan

agree, we can talk about that side of the issue but it will not work but if we mention the health risks, repulse people in how they have sex and it certainly works, sex with feces is sick, living less, the diseases, then it would wake the wishy cowards on our side and the middle up


65 posted on 03/24/2013 8:00:42 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Longbow1969

obama never got voted in because he wants turd pokers , he got where he was because of massive fraud in the Dem controlled counties in the swing states.

The media is left wing for the most part
The polls are mostly left wing or eltiist types in DC
Since the left likes ot mention polls then they do they also ignore other polls on guns or how about asking.

is having sex with feces healthy, mmm I wonder what that poll would say.
Do children do better when they have a mother and a father?

wonder what that poll would say, mmmmm

Polls are nothing but a propaganda machine to further an agenda.

Also people say one thing to a pollster and anotehr what they think.

As for polling, er where, I know around here in north FL and even most I know up in MA when I worked up there they are opposed to homosexual marriage.

The left have been doing this for years, hell they had it written down back in 1963, weather underground later said it was about destroying normal couples and marriage.
They used the Alinsky tactics

Anyone not seeing the lies and drama from these people need to wake up and it woudl have helped if the cowards on our side would actually have mentioned this years ago , eople like Hannity, Rush etc who think they should stay on the debt and spending or health care to play it safe


66 posted on 03/24/2013 8:06:34 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: little jeremiah

there a cowards on here even who never speak up about marriage, talk radio, our party which let in non republicans like Paul to spout their agendas.

To hell with them


67 posted on 03/24/2013 8:20:07 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: randog

Thanks for the heads up.


68 posted on 03/24/2013 8:22:42 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: manc

Usually, I do not trust polls unless I can see the FULL documentation on the poll: questions asked, sample size, sample distribution, standard of error, discarded responses (yes, there are discarded responses), etc. I say this because I took a class in university which covered polling (Political Statistics what the class). After seeing how polls can be massaged, I do not trust a poll unless I can see the full documentation on it.


69 posted on 03/24/2013 8:30:09 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Army Air Corps

Agree.

These polsl which the left wraps themselves around are usualy one sided, how many Dems were asked, how many conservatives, how many non party, where was they asked, were they all in the north east and CA or all in MS, AL, north FL where I am , GA, SC.

I’ll agree that they do have the upper hand because they have been working on this for decades , hell they even had it all written down for us to see.
They took the media over, the schools over and got lawyers to set up groups to sue others and then got the hate laws and bully laws passed to stop kids from saying anything to these freaky kids


70 posted on 03/24/2013 8:40:45 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc
Also the polls are scewed to suit their agendas and lets not forget the polls and media are left wing for the most part.

If you're stuck on not believing polls, you are just refusing to accept reality. Didn't we hear enough of "the polls are wrong" nonsense in the last election? Remember all that stupid "unskewed" polls crap that was going around on conservative websites? Lots of conservatives and Republicans thought the polls were wrong, yet most of them turned out to be very accurate - which is the reason little liberal jerks like Nate Silver (NY Times) were nearly 100% accurate with their predictions.

71 posted on 03/24/2013 8:57:04 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

of course the polls got it wrong but they can;t account for someone voting more than once, illegals voting, dead people voting, bags of votes found lke what was seen here in this state, certain other votes being ignored and yes they now have just found that cyber fraud was also done in this state and yes it’s always going for the left .

I know what I know from the people I know, who are around me, from my kids and their friends and trust me they know many people, at work, wifes family and they do not go along with these polls and lets not forget that people lie in polls.

I know some who led to the polls over this issue but voted otherwise because they thought that if they said they opposed the feces pushing agenda then they might have teir names taken.

I know that is not wwhat would ahppen, or hope not but for some people they actually think that and live in fear of a radical homosexual agenda.

In this state when we were gong to vote the homsoexuals came down here from MA and DC and sued to get the names of those who wanted the amendment made public


72 posted on 03/24/2013 9:07:16 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc
of course the polls got it wrong but they can;t account for someone voting more than once, illegals voting, dead people voting, bags of votes found lke what was seen here in this state

The polls were not wrong, they were right. In fact, the state polls were so accurate that people who relied on them called all 50 states correctly in the last presidential election. We did not lose the election because of vote fraud. If you are still hanging your hat on polls being wrong or the idea we lost because of fraud, you are just refusing to accept reality.

I know what I know from the people I know, who are around me

Huh?

I think you are offering anecdotal evidence and it is entirely worthless. There are some places, particularly rural, that are voting increasingly Republican/conservative. But the country has changed. It's become more urban and less rural, minority populations are growing rapidly and if you are not in one of these densely populated urban(ish) areas you may not realize that the country is changing under your feet.

I know some who led to the polls over this issue but voted otherwise because they thought that if they said they opposed the feces pushing agenda then they might have teir names taken

Sure, there is always a few people that lie to pollsters, but polling is a science and most are not lying. I know you don't want to believe it, but the majority of the country now seems to be okay with homo marriage, homo's in the military, etc. It's a terrible thing, but the left has used their power in the education, media and entertainment establishments to convince a majority of Americans that gay is a-ok.

I know that is not wwhat would ahppen, or hope not but for some people they actually think that and live in fear of a radical homosexual agenda.

Most people are not living in fear of the homosexual agenda. The vast majority of Americans are politically ignorant and don't even understand what the homosexual agenda even is.

73 posted on 03/24/2013 9:26:36 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Army Air Corps

This article gives some good info on it-

http://www.theopedia.com/Emerging_Church

IMHO, it’s basically just revamped liberalism and relativism.


74 posted on 03/24/2013 9:39:30 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Longbow1969
I agree about your last line but for for the rest of it, well Idisagree.

Voter fraud in this state was massive, one only has to either look at the demographics, the charges being brought forward to even last week, the people who you talk to, the people who admit they did vote in OH and FL as students as I have, the dead being found to have voted and the amount of more people voting against obama but now he wins and even illegals voting which have been found then I'll take that and others can just ignore the data and what they see

LOL, so my views and the people I talk to are worthless, maybe in your view so I'll just say this. I disagree.

Actually I ma sorry do agree about how the homosexuals have used this agenda as a cool thing, used media and the schools.

While we disagree on a few things we do agree on how the radical left, the communists and the homosexuals have got to this point

75 posted on 03/24/2013 9:41:38 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc
LOL, so my views and the people I talk to are worthless,

I said anecdotal evidence is worthless. You, your family, all your friends, etc, could be casting ballots for Republicans and it doesn't tell us squat about how the rest of the country is voting. When it comes to elections, the country is increasingly segregating itself. We are coming to a time where you could live in a rural area and virtually everyone votes for the conservative/Republican candidate, yet that candidate will lose because of overwhelming preference for Democrats in the growing urban areas (cities). Demographics are changing rapidly, but if you don't live in or around a big urban area you might not notice the change.

It's very simple. We are getting clobbered by minority voters. There are just not enough white people moving to the Republican party fast enough to make up for the massive growth in minority voters who overwhelmingly cast ballots for Democrats. You can refuse to accept this is you'd like, but eventually you won't be able to deny the obvious truth.

While we disagree on a few things we do agree on how the radical left, the communists and the homosexuals have got to this point

Yup, and we agree it is terribly destructive for this country. I honestly don't know if we can recover from the damage - at least not in our lifetimes. Maybe a few generations from now things will be different. In the meantime we just fight for the right things and hope we can make a difference.

76 posted on 03/24/2013 10:12:05 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

My wife and I had this discussion and I brought up the 20’s and then the late 60 but mostly early 70’s and how we got back to more common sense but she did bring up a good point and that was.

Back then laws and special rights had not been passed or forced onto us but today they have.
Once laws and people think they have a right then those rights and laws seem to always stay in place.

I do think the damage has bene so much so that I might never see common sense come back to America.

Maybe states might want to leave and then the media will go into such overdrive attack like we have never seen before or maybe the states might leave as people have had enough though sadly most Americans have no idea about the communist agenda.

Look at the black community for instance, they voted yet again in their millions because the guy was not all white.
Ask them do they think illegals should get welfare and jobs and they say no.
Ask them should homosexuals get married and they say no.
Ask most of them if they are Christian and they say yes in the south and yet the idiots still voted for this girlie guy and want to be royal family.

Hisoanics would have bene good to pick up but yet again the stupid party woudl not mention social issues and yet the vast amount of them are opposed to homosexuals marrying or kids being taught feces and sex and yet again they voted for the left because the left wing media who state they;re not biased portray the republicans as racist while ignoring who were the KKK, segregation, slavery etc.

It;s white v others
Christians v everyone
I;ts male v female
it;s rich v poor
I;ts city v country\
It;s old, v young
right stupid, left smart

That is the platform of the radical left and the message of the corrupt media and our side never ever fights back except a few like Cruz, Sarah, Col West , Michelle Bachmann,etc hell they;re still going after those women and so our side sees this and instead of forming a circle and fighting back our side stays silent, Hannity and others will talk debt and health care on Monday or try to have this issue both ways.

Losing the family is what the feminazis wanted decades back.
Get the woman outside of the house.
Let kids be ignored as both parents are tired and busy.
Make it easier for divorce
promote cheating and make it cool
Make it out homosexuals are just happy gay people while ignoring how they suffer mental illness, sexual disease on a bigger %.

However say we lost this week, are they saying that our states where tens of millions have voted and done hard work and spent millions will now have to accept this sham marriage?
If we do then how on earth do you do that and not violate the 1st amendment which gurantees religious freedom without Govt imposing their will?

How do you now stop lawsuits wanting polygamy?
How can these homosexuals who want special rights base their so called rights on how they have sex, it;s never about love?

Also their lawyer stated he argued for their sham marriage that it was not about how one has sex , hell another woman on the panel said it was by accident a man and a woman could have a child and that this was about equal rights.

Well I hope our side pointed out they do have the same equal rights,they can marry the opposite sex just as us and we cannot marry the same sex as they cannot?

Now if they get this we have seen in MA, CA that they now use this to teach feces sex and strap ons for women will be taught to little children as they claim it;s the law.

Got to go but look forward to your reply, be back in a couple of hourse , have to go and check on my horse, as we’ve had a really bad storm come through here


77 posted on 03/24/2013 11:17:11 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc
Hisoanics would have bene good to pick up but yet again the stupid party woudl not mention social issues and yet the vast amount of them are opposed to homosexuals marrying

The problem is, they care about free stuff a LOT more than the social issues. The Democrats offer free stuff, and Hispanics are really not educated enough to understand what the left is pushing. Hispanics (predominately families originally from Mexico) believe in big government. They believe in a massive social welfare state that hands out lots of goodies. They may claim to be socially conservative, but they don't vote that way.

Let me give you something to think about where these social issues such as gay marriage are concerned. The new Pope Francis comes from Argentina. Argentina is overwhelmingly Catholic. So Catholic that support of the Catholic church is built into their constitution. The Pope himself (he was an archbishop then) could not win the gay marriage fight in a county that is of his own religion. And he fought too, and yet it didn't matter - a majority of the people went along with the leftist government on this issue. That's how far gone the modern world is at this point.

Look at the black community for instance, they voted yet again in their millions because the guy was not all white.

Blacks are voting for free stuff. Obama upped the vote total a little from blacks, but 90% of them are voting on which party gives them handouts. If Hillary is the Dem nominee in 2016, she will also get 90-95% of the black vote - even if our candidate is someone like Dr. Carson.

Reality sucks, but it's better we see what is really going on than retreat into a fantasy world. Voting tends to be generational. It will be very hard to ever change the minds of the current batch of minorities voting for Democrats. However, one day views will change - unfortunately, that will probably be in some future generation decades or more from now. In the meantime, we just fight the good fight and hope we can turn the tide. We reach out to these minority populations, but hold fast to our conservative beliefs. We accept modernity and social change, but explain how conservative values make for a healthier society that benefits us all. We fight the left on every front, and stop ceding the education, media and entertainment establishments to them.

78 posted on 03/24/2013 12:01:44 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: BurningOak

“That battle was lost half a century ago with the introduction of the pill, effectively divorcing sex from reproduction. 99% of people fornicate before marriage, most women married and not take birth control, Roe is now 40, the Biblical idea that sex = children is basically dead and buried in a pit with 50 million aborted babies.”

I’m afraid your missing the point entirely BurningOak.

Without children the LEGAL bonds of matrimony are nothing more than a expensive burden signifying mistrust and instability between the man and woman.

Despite religious and legal connotations historically and as you pointed out congruently marriage has little to do with sex. even a thousand years ago it was normal for men to “sleep around”. The marriage was to help insure he returned with his resources to one “legitimate” woman & family.


79 posted on 03/24/2013 12:58:24 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: BurningOak

“I do not see homosexuality as a disease, it is a sin, and with Jesus it can be overcome like all other sin. Repenting will not cure you of cancer.”

I have no dispute that the practice of homosexuality is a sin. Whether or not you call it a disease as well depends upon how you define the cause and/or the concept of disease.

For-example:

* If homosexuality is caused by a genetic mutation then it is a disease along the same-lines as down syndrome or Scoliosis. The Sin being the failure to resist.

* If on the other hand Homosexuality is a learned behavioral subject to original and free choice then Homosexuality is a disease along the same lines as alcoholism. The Sin again being the failure to resist.

You see my definition of a disease is:

1: A disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

or:

2: Any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disease

Not everybody accepts #2 and if you among the lot that reject #2 or its application to behavioral disease, while believing Homosexuality is purely a behavioral problem then I can understand your position.

One way or the other Homosexuality inhibits the essential life function of reproduction. That is its inevitable down fall for the individual and the civilization that embraces this disease.


80 posted on 03/24/2013 1:16:03 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: mardi59

Not really, but I haven’t been paying as much attention to leftist as perhaps I should, particularly when they delve into sodomy which I find quite naturally to be disgusting.

Still I have come to recognize that our civilization has a major problem in regard to marriage and family. A problem that predates this most recent assault by at least 50 years, and has already compromised our civilizations demographic foundation. One of the reasons we are so depended upon unassimilated foreign immigrants now is because most of our assimilated population has already fallen victim to this preexisting corruption & subsequent destruction of marriage & family.
The latest assault by Homosexual activist & leftist is by comparison simply a finishing blow to an already weakened and dying institution.
Marriage rates are dropping with each generation, as more and more people start to realize the institution itself as currently defined is effetely a waste of time and money. Meanwhile single parent households and dilqeuency is rising just as divorce (where there is still marriage) is flowing increasingly like water.

The reason for all this is quite simple, real marriage has doesn’t exist anymore. Modern day youth and even folks of the older generation have got into their heads that marriage is about an emotional attachment (love) for someone else rather than simply a commitment to raise a family with them as it was originally.
This is Hollywood fought as much as anything, have you ever seen movies like Brave or rally just about any other movie dealing with marriage their always about breaking the traditional roll of filmy based marriage for love based “marriage” in one form or anther. Theses are classic stores that hold their poetic origins in a time when this really was the battle the left fought. But of course it went too far and instead of simply starting a marriage with someone you love marriage became all about the emotion of love and not about family.

The point is quite easy to understand when you think about it without children the LEGAL bonds of matrimony are nothing more than a expensive burden signifying mistrust and instability between the man and woman. (inherently a lack of love) hence the legal bonds and with it the legal term of marriage is an undesirable and unnecessary bond for a union that has become essencaly about “expressing a feeling” rather than being held to raising one particular family.

At this point if you ask me we might be better off just starting anew with a new title to define and enforce what marriage was. Too many of our civilization and pop culture have already been overrun with this corrupted and dysfunctional idea of the word marriage.

I don’t think we have the cultural power to save the word ‘marriage’ anymore. But we can thou our religious institutions reintroduce the original institution under a different name made exclusively to bond people who have children.


81 posted on 03/24/2013 2:11:04 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: BurningOak

Destroy core values is the understatement of the year. More to the point is homosexuals destroy lives mentally and physically. Little boys are their obsession and have been for thousands of years. The Sandusky case barely scratched the underlying truth.


82 posted on 03/24/2013 2:15:23 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: Venturer
Here is the money quote. The current ‘anti-bullying’ hysteria is a Trojan Horse to try to enact laws that effectively limited the First Amendment rights of certain people:

To be truly progressive, truly open-minded, truly relevant, truly savvy in your cultural engagement, you need to now affirm same-sex marriage, with all that represents (the moral purity of homosexual acts, for example).

It will, to be sure, take time for this shift to shake itself out. But it’s here. What does this mean for people whose first love is not the culture, but God? It means that we really are behind the times now, and will be so in increasing measure. We’re backward. We’re mean. We hate people not like us. That’s how we will be interpreted. And make no mistake: this is not a quest for some rights and a piece of paper. We will, most assuredly, face the threat of losing our religious liberty.

83 posted on 03/24/2013 2:18:01 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Longbow1969
Gay marriage and gay rights used to be a winning issue for conservatives, is increasingly a loser. The media, Hollywierd and the entertainment establishments succeeded at changing American’s opinion on this issue.

For those who believe what is written repeatedly (8 times at least) in 7 different books of the Bible the consequence is clear. In the last decade or so i come to truly fear for our country or rather what will happen to the country it is being transformed into. Christianity preserved the heart of Greeko-Roman culture in the Dark Ages. One can only wonder if the same thing is coming again.

84 posted on 03/24/2013 2:25:58 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Monorprise
The homosexual life style is a dead end proposition and thus ultimately self-destructive.

The entire secular-humanist enterprise is a dead end proposition as it propagates a doctrine devoid of any notion of intergenerational content.
Secularism is at its base a doctrine that elevates the satisfaction of short term whims to any sense of duty and self sacrifice for a larger whole. This sort of shallow materialism is rife today. The effect on the core of our society, which bluntly spoken is, the white middle class, will be further demoralization and anomie. The end process will be an America that in many ways mimics black society. A middle and upper class basically made of connected lawyers, political operatives and assorted deal makers standing above a larger element of government and quasi government employees (public schools, federal, state, county and municipal government, public service unions, non-profits and politicized churches) and those above half or more the former white middle class reduced to the moral and intellectual and pervasive violence and dysfunctional squalor of the ghetto community. Without a determined saving remnant culturally we as a nation are doomed. The orgiastic celebration of the joy and virtue of queer sex (and particularly male queer sex in its most in your face vile manner) is a chilling monument on the road to cultural perdition we as a nation and people are traveling on.

85 posted on 03/24/2013 2:40:34 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: robowombat

Sodomy is the word we must use to remind people what they are embracing and of its inherit fallacy of this tradition.

Do not describe without that word to add historic condemnation this evil.

As for the fate of our civilization, I think you miss the positive effect of the culturally more isolated and religious immigrant population. A population that will no doubt continue to support values and if we can ever get their heads out of their ass may even begin voting for rather than against their own values.

As for the black population, no population is homogenus if we can break the race barrier with Latinos we may also find ways to break it with black.

If all else fails and we end up abandoning the republican party label and instead overrunning the Democratic party. We may very well analyze the race barrier by acting as chameleon only distinguishable by our values, which we know they share.

The future is not as dark as you suppose.


86 posted on 03/24/2013 3:16:47 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: robowombat

Sodomy is the word we must use to remind people what they are embracing and of its inherit fallacys.

Do not describe without that word to add historic condemnation this evil.

As for the fate of our civilization, I think you miss the positive effect of the culturally more isolated and religious immigrant population. A population that will no doubt continue to support values and if we can ever get their heads out of their ass may even begin voting for rather than against their own values.

As for the black population, no population is homogenus if we can break the race barrier with Latinos we may also find ways to break it with black.

If all else fails and we end up abandoning the republican party label and instead overrunning the Democratic party. We may very well bypass the racist firewall by acting as chameleon only distinguishable by our values & polices, which we know they share & agree with.

The future is not as dark as you suppose. Rather by changing the way we play this otherwise rigged game it can be very bright indeed.


87 posted on 03/24/2013 3:20:33 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“If heteros can deliberately choose sterile intercourse -— unnatural sex -— so can gays and lesbians.

That’s what they say.

So what? The act of sex is not the act of marriage.

“And there’s a certain logic consistency there. People across the board -— gay and straight -— have largely chosen against natural sex the way God made it.”

Then tell them that they have thus also chosen against the whole propose of marriage.

Ask them why they should want the burdens of the legal bonding of the institution of marriage when their desire for a relationship is so clearly based exclusively upon their own feelings for each-other?

“I must say, the Catholic Church is the only group I know which has a coherent teaching on this.”

Perhaps because the Catholic Church has retained a consistent and logical understanding of the nature and propose of marriage for thousands of years.


88 posted on 03/24/2013 3:38:38 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Monorprise
You're right that an act of sex is not necessarily the act of marriage; that is to say, any-old sexual conjuggin' isn't the kind of act that can consummate a marriage.

Homosexual acts aren't even "sexual unions" because they don't even "unite the sexes", fer Pete's sake.

As Richard Rodriguez says, the problem is, two gay men just don't have a kosher place to stick it.

British law just discovered that even though gay mariage is legal, two men or two women cannot consummate a marriage, as defined by law.

Neither can they have a marriage annulled because of inability to perform sexual intercourse, because they are not anatomicaly equipped to perform sexual intercourse with each other.

Neither can they be divorced on the ground of adultery if one partner has some kind of sexual jiggery-pokery with another person of the same sex, because whatever they did, it was not adultery as the law defines adultery.

Confused? Yes. Unnatural? Of course. Absurd? Fo' shizzle.

My point, however, is that many heterosexuals do the same. It's all part of the deconstruction of sex, which is a big part of --- in C.S. Lewis' memorable phrase --- "The Abolition of Man".

89 posted on 03/24/2013 4:23:59 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: Longbow1969

agree with all of that.

If we mention the dangers of feces and sex, how studies have shown time after time children to better wiht a mother and a father and mention that many boys molested are by men which woudl make those men touching the same sex homsoexuals then we can turn this back.

I agree we can reach out and that many today care about welfare and handouts.

Just before the election last year I saw a black family outside winn dixie.
Obama stickers, health care for everyone and so I walked by and used by northern English thick accent and said why do blacks in America vote for the Dems .
Their reply was that they care about blacks .
I pointed out that it was thatparty which segregated your ancestors, used slavery, on your ancestors, KKK anti civil rights etc.

The guy looked confused and then replied”well I don;t knwo anything about that but my money will stop coming and are you sure about that”

Just at that point the old woman came round from the other side of the vehicle and said in a loud voice “Romney will cut my food stamps and I don;t care about anything you are saying’

Right there it proved how many in that community use their color to get what they want and play victim but also could not careless about their past unless it helps them to play the race card.
I also knew right there that the GOP have bene utter clueless or cowardly when it comes ot social issues and the Dem history.

With a hisotry like the Dems you would think any sane person would never vote for that party due to being embarrassed or perceived to be racist but alas the media was infiltrated by communists, socialist and hard core radical lefty;s who have made the low info voter ignorant and utterly stupid and made the right to be the racists ones regardless of the KKK, Wilson and segregation


90 posted on 03/24/2013 5:05:35 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

right there on some of their rules they said this way back decades ago and they have nearly done all of those rules and yet our side let them get to this point.

I’ll never accept their sham marriage and I’ve just got a sticker saying marriage =1man and 1 woman and as soon as it;s delivered it;s on my vehicle and to hell with the communist agenda


91 posted on 03/24/2013 5:07:26 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: BurningOak
10 years since a bare majority of the Massachusetts Supreme Court took the great leap forward at the end of 2003... while Mitt Romney stood idly by.
92 posted on 03/24/2013 5:48:18 PM PDT by j_tull (The smart money these days is in brass and lead.)
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To: Monorprise
Perhaps so. Both parties display a deep degree of intellectual and moral exhaustion a sort of institutional caffard. The national GOP is simply becoming an empty shell devoid of the most rudimentary belief system. it reminds one of one of those dinosaurs that had no real brain, just a mass of nerves that acted as a sort of cpx for dispatching neural reactions to elemental reactions. In the case of the Republicans, it is just scooping up campaign donations and managing congressional corrupt bargains which are just inside the law (or maybe not).
The donkeys have a better organized battle management system and are oriented to fighting to win but their motivations are just as visceral, winning for its own corrupt glory and for relentlessly rewarding the various ethnic and identity components of their ramshackle coalition with the poisonous rewards of the welfare state.
One is just hollow and contentless the other consumed with the worst in the American political culture mating with a depraved and debased form of the Enlightenment project.

Perhaps there is a way for people who believe in something to translate their beliefs into political action that will be transformative. I personally doubt it absent some real true calamities descending on the complacent, shallow, pleasure loving sensualists that far to much of the population of our country have become.

93 posted on 03/24/2013 8:30:36 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: Sherman Logan; All; wagglebee; little jeremiah
20 posted on 3/23/2013 5:02:08 PM by Sherman Logan: “This is, BTW, exactly what happened with regard to racism. Such a belief system is acceptable in very few places in American society today. Which is an example of this dynamic working in a positive way. The pro-gay groups have succeeded in equating a belief that homosexual activity is sinful with racism, an example of the dynamic working negatively. IMO.”

You are right.

Acceptance of homosexuality, especially with regard to homosexual marriage, is being presented as a civil rights issue. It will take blacks fighting against homosexual marriage to break that connection being created in the public mind.

Put simply, we need a lot more black pastors standing up and being willing to publicly say, “God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.”

One of the few pieces of good news in the general collapse of American public opinion regarding a biblical view of homosexuality is that black churches and even black secular culture, for a wide variety of different reasons, have been less willing to go along with the push to normalize sodomy.

Some of those reasons are really, really bad and cannot be endorsed by Christians who, unlike Rob Bell, actually take the Bible seriously. In secular black and Hispanic culture, and especially in the sports world, sexuality, fornication, and a certain grossly wicked concept of “manliness” are far too often glorified. While that helps make homosexuality unacceptable in a lot of secular black and Hispanic circles, glorification of heterosexual lust by men and encouraging sexual abuse of and voluntary promiscuity by women certainly isn't something good.

Of course, those same problems of glorifying heterosexual lust are also present in the “Dukes of Hazzard” Southern white culture as well. Lust isn't a black or Hispanic problem; it is a human sin problem that affects all races and all cultures, though it may manifest itself in different ways for cultural reasons.

Nevertheless, homosexuality really **IS** worse than run-of-the-mill heterosexual lust.

Romans 1 shows us that the rise of homosexuality in a culture is a warning of God's impending judgment. God gives nations over to wickedness because they abandoned him, and both male and female homosexuality are examples of that.

For those who think I'm being alarmist, go read God's Word in Romans 1:21-33, especially verses 26-27. It really is that simple.

Romans 1:21-33: “21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

94 posted on 03/25/2013 1:18:37 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: BurningOak
Burning Oak wrote: “That battle was lost half a century ago with the introduction of the pill, effectively divorcing sex from reproduction. 99% of people fornicate before marriage, most women married and not take birth control, Roe is now 40, the Biblical idea that sex = children is basically dead and buried in a pit with 50 million aborted babies.”

We're mostly in agreement, but let's avoid making the statistics look even worse than they already are.

Yes, we all know that the pre-marital, non-marital, and extra-marital sexual numbers are horrible, but they haven't quite yet reached the 99 percent threshhold.

As a Calvinist I don't like even sounding as if I'm boasting in my own righteousness, but it is a matter of simple fact that I did not fornicate before marriage and have not committed adultery in my marriage. I can make a long list of sins I have committed, any one of which warrants eternal damnation apart from the blood of Christ, but those two aren't on the list.

My concern here is that when we say that virtually all Americans fornicate before marriage, the result is we give too many young people the idea that “everyone is doing it anyway, so why shouldn't I join the fun.”

It simply is **NOT** true that “everyone is doing it.”

If you had said "many people" or even "most people" fornicate before marriage, I wouldn't have disagreed. My problem is with the 99 percent number.

Let's admit the reality that we have a major problem with immorality inside the church, but let's not make the problem worse than it already is.

95 posted on 03/25/2013 1:30:26 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: Army Air Corps; Springfield Reformer; P-Marlowe; drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; ...
50 posted on 3/23/2013 10:52:48 PM by Army Air Corp: “Who is Rob Bell?”

If you don't know, be glad.

Bell is best known for his quasi-universalist views, which are perhaps best summarized with his book and motto "Love Wins," but his problems are much worse than that. His teachings against eternal damnation of the wicked are only one part of a bigger problem.

Bell is the recently-resigned founding pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church, a megachurch in a suburb of my hometown of Grand Rapids. He's a Wheaton College and Fuller Theological Seminary graduate. He managed to plant a megachurch in the center of the Dutch Reformed world by advocating styles of worship and doctrinal beliefs at radical variation from the historic beliefs of the people among whom he pastors, while bringing a veneer of evangelicalism to the mix.

How did such radical views gain traction in a place like Grand Rapids?

The answer is important, and it's an important warning to conservative Christians everywhere in any denomination. I'm pinging this to the Great Reformed Ping List, but it deserves to be read by anyone who takes doctrinal integrity seriously. If we don't catechize or otherwise teach doctrine to our young people, we are only one generation away from seeing the apostasy of our grandchildren, if not our children.

The theological collapse of the Dutch Reformed world in Grand Rapids has resulted in people fleeing the CRC and RCA in all sorts of directions. Some of those directions include older and newer denominations which affirm the historic Reformed faith — the URC, OPC, and PRC, and to a lesser extent the NRC, FRC, HRC, and some Reformed Baptist churches, have all benefited from that exodus of people who want to be Reformed.

Other directions include theologically conservative but non-Reformed denominations such as the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches, the Assemblies of God, and the Wesleyan Church.

And, of course, the PC(USA), the UCC, and other liberal or mainline denominations have served as a “safety valve” for decades, taking dissatisfied Dutchmen who wanted a theology which was less restrictive to their doctrine or morality.

What Rob Bell managed to create in Grand Rapids was something new. Mars Hill Bible Church combined the attractions of the externals of evangelical Christianity with the attractions of a liberal faith.

Bell was an early warning sign of a type of so-called evangelical Christianity which is growing in America, and which is not evangelical at all. It is merely a re-creation of an older type of liberalism, one which unlike the major forms of liberalism of the late 1800s and early 1900s, claimed to be “spiritual” rather than having the anti-supernatural focus of mainstream classical liberalism. Men like Friedrich Schleiermacher were present in the older forms of liberalism, though they were not the “majority report,” and their form of experience-based religion is every bit as dangerous as the anti-supernatural form of liberalism.

In fact, it's probably more dangerous today because there are a lot of people who want a “spiritual experience” who would reject open attacks on miracles or other supernatural features of historic Christianity, but are open to Rob Bell's heresies.

96 posted on 03/25/2013 2:00:13 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: randog; P-Marlowe; Springfield Reformer; drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; ...
56 posted on 3/24/2013 4:49:42 AM by randog: “Rob Bell came out of the Emergent Church movement about 10 years ago. A group of pastors got together to address the question of an aging, dying church population. They asked the question, “how do we get young people back into church?” Among those in the movement were Bell, Brian McLaren, Mark Driscoll, Dan Kimball, John Piper, et.al. They branched almost immediately, with pastors like Driscoll and Piper adhering to gospel while reaching the youth through their culture, and others like Bell and McLaren re-molding scripture to fit the culture.”

I am not going to spend very much time criticizing Driscoll and even less time criticizing Piper. Both men have done a lot of good work, and as you correctly point out, both men saw early on at least some of the problems of the “emergent church” movement. I follow J. Gresham Machen in declining to criticize people with whom he mostly agreed; we've got enough other problems on our plate to deal with.

But I am going to point out that when the question we ask is “how do we get young people back into church?” rather than “what is the chief end of man” or “what is your only comfort in life and in death,” we run the risk of coming up with some very wrong answers.

God gives the increase, not human methods.

The responsibility of preachers is to remain faithful to the text of the Word of God, not to try to find ways to increase the size of their congregations. Sometimes God blesses faithful pastors with large sheepfolds. Sometimes He doesn't. That's not necessarily any fault of or credit to the pastor — the Chief Shepherd is the One who makes those decisions.

Given enough time, liberalism and other forms of heresy will destroy churches. But because some people have itching ears and like churches with pastors who suit their tastes, heretics can succeed over the short run in building some pretty large congregations.

Frankly, a youth-oriented focus in churches is simply wrongheaded and misplaced. The way to keep young people in church is to teach fathers how to catechize their children, or otherwise explain what the Bible says and why their church believes what it believes.

I would say some very different things if we were talking about a college-age ministry to students who are on their own for the first time away from home, or a military chaplaincy to the 18-25 age demographic, or an outreach to troubled youth from broken homes. In those contexts, a youth-oriented focus to young people who don't know or don't understand the Gospel is entirely appropriate.

But God created families for a reason, and inside the church, the church needs to be encouraging and promoting the God-ordained means of bringing young people to faith through families, not creating a whole host of human methods to reach young people apart from those God-ordained methods.

97 posted on 03/25/2013 2:23:41 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: BurningOak

Amoung Christians, even evangelical ones who try to understand and obey the Bible, there is a direct link from the ordination of women to the pastorate, and acceptance of homosexuality.

Once the scripture can be bent on a seemingly minor point (pastoral leadership in the Church in the Bible is reserved for men) then it is all the easier to bend it for a point of moral behavior (homosexual acts are always wrong).

Philosophically too, homosexuality is much easier to accept, if one already thinks that in all other rolls in society...men and women are interchangible. If masculinity and femininity are simply paterns of behavior generic persons put on (our souls being neuters...)...and NOT essential elements of each individual’s created nature...created by God Himself...and men and women can do all jobs, all rolls in society interchangibly—then it is logical that in basic biological rolls—sex—they, logically, can, and even should, be interchangeble too.

It is fascinating to me, that in the mainline Christian denominations in America—immediately upon the votes that allowed women to become pastors, the push began to accept homosexual practice—and—elevate homosexuals to pastoral leadership as well.

Rob Bell, and all the Emergent Church leadership...have always assumed women as leaders over men (contrary to direct New Testament commands) in the Church. It is no wonder that they have drifted into direct doctrinal heresy—such as accepting homosexual practice (and denying Hell, in Bell’s case)—since...


98 posted on 03/25/2013 12:07:23 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

A wise and noted point. It will be worth noting that when the rest of our countrymen come to their senses and realize this.

That being said what will happen is a new meaningful union will be created in the shadow of the increasingly meaningless old.

The Government will not give back what it has taken, what it has taken will simply turn to shit, along with everything else the state touches.


99 posted on 03/29/2013 1:41:30 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: SoFloFreeper

http://i48.tinypic.com/2q3x6ao.jpg

FEAR the Lord.


100 posted on 12/30/2013 11:18:37 PM PST by ourworldawry
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