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Why the low Republican turnout? (vanity)

Posted on 11/07/2012 8:40:52 AM PST by TigerClaws

This was within reach. Obama had ten million fewer votes than 2008. Despite huge rallies and intensity, Rs didn't show up.

Was it... 1. Insufficient ground game? Hundreds of millions on tv instead of laser beam ground game on our base?

2. Too moderate. Romney didn't motivate the conservatives.

3. The Mormon thing. Evangelicals stayed home.

4. The gender gap. Romney didn't close it.

Despite the MSM spin, this was a winnable election and we lost the chess match.

Thoughts?


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: chat; inman; vanity
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To: TigerClaws
"Thoughts?"

To add for consideration: demographics.

The old conservative coalitions are dying off, be they the Silent Majority, Chrisitian Coalition, or Reagan Democrats. These folks had first hand experience with the Great Depression and the Second World War. These hardships instilled self reliance and love of country, traits that are disappearing in today's world. As such, this election may have been angry white man's last stand. America's culture has simply changed.

51 posted on 11/07/2012 9:10:11 AM PST by buckalfa (Nabob of Negativity)
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To: TigerClaws; Logical me; dila813
A nation robbed by "progressives" of its constitutional understanding--that is the primary reason! The secondary reason is the GOP's failure to use its billion-dollar campaign to focus like a laser on educating voters!

During the primary season, one of my FR posts stated the following in response to a Jonah Goldberg comment about Romney:

Sorry, Jonah, but this is not as simple as "not speaking the language (of conservatism) naturally." When a person is steeped in the ideas of Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Washington, it just "naturally" slips through in the ideas they convey. Remember Reagan?

Do Republicans seriously want to conserve America's constitutional principles? Or, are they just objecting to Democrats? Do they have a passion for liberty? Is this just about changing the Party in power, or is it about preserving freedom?

If their concern is for convincing enough voters to reject the idea of "a government big enough to give you everyting you want" and turn to advocacy for "a government small enough to allow you freedom to keep most of what you earn," then they'd better get busy seeing that someone is nominated who has been "marinated" (to use a word coined by Ingraham last night on "The Factor") in the Founders' ideas (isn't that what conservatives purport to "conserve"?).

So far (a/o February 2012), Mitt Romney, though a good man, demonstrates no such immersion. He has been "successful" in benefiting from those ideas, and he recites familiar words and phrases from patriotic speeches and songs, but that is different from understanding and being able to call up and articulate the philosophy which made such success possible.

Ronald Reagan's life and letters reveal that he had "immersed" himself in those ideas for years before he agreed to run for President, and that is why he could set "issues" in light of constitutional "principle." and explain his advocacy or rejection of solutions in by that light.

The other three candidates--Paul, Santorum, Gingrigh--couch their answers to questions in a manner which indicate personal pursuit and understanding of the Constitution's protections, each in his own way.

Of the two so-called "frontrunners," however, the lifetime history scholar, teacher, legislator, and participant in what was called "the Reagan revolution," appears to be the one most likely to be able to successfully articulate and distinguish those ideas to voters, if given the chance to compete with the "counterfeit ideas" of tyranny cloaked in righteous benevolence by Obama.

Is "politics as usual" to win the day, or might we not bring Gingrich, Santorum, Paul, and others who embrace founding principles together to help to create a "passion" for liberty among citizens sufficient to defeat the counterfeit ideas which are leading the Republic to ruin?

The following is excerpted from "Our Ageless Constitution," p. 181:

"It was John Adams who said: "The foundation of every government is some principle or passion in the minds of the people." Clearly, the Founders' passion was liberty, and in order to secure that liberty, they sought out and incor­porated into the United States Constitution those ideas and principles embodied in the Declaration of Independence.

"The French historian, Guizot, once asked James Russell Lowell, "How long will the American republic endure?" Lowell replied: "As long as the IDEAS of the men who founded it continue dominant."

"Herein lies the answer to the question, "Will the Experiment Succeed?"

"It can and will succeed IF the motivating "principle or passion in the minds of the people" is LIBERTY, and if that passion causes them to exert the determination and will to complete the needed restoration of the IDEAS upon which the great American experiment was based." ---(End of excerpted material)

My call to the GOP is the same as then! To rediscover and recover liberty from the hands of those who are turning America into just another failing nation dominated by a government-over-people ideology, a determined and massive education effort should begin November 7, 2012, focused on the teaching of the fundamental principles essential to the survival of individual liberty for a people.

52 posted on 11/07/2012 9:10:31 AM PST by loveliberty2
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I'm busy reading Serpico - the story of a New York cop who stood up to police corruption, but I'm going to put it aside and find some lighter reading.....

had enough corruption for one week.

53 posted on 11/07/2012 9:10:32 AM PST by Churchillspirit (9/11/2001 and 9/11/2012: NEVER FORGET.)
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To: TigerClaws
Unfortunately the sad truth is what has been coming for some time and the last two Republican Presidents (both named Bush) did nothing to stem this tide: new government programs, i.e. bank bailouts, auto bailouts, Americans with Disabilities Act, No Child Left Behind, just to name many AND having pro-abortionists, homosexuals and liberals running things behind the scenes.

Then, in my opinion only, beginning wars with terrorists countries but not fighting to win, fearing too much death and destruction against countries that want exactly that from us, giving military over to liberals, putting women on front lines and trying to hug our enemies rather than kill them, i.e. Germany & Japan.

Now we have more people in the wagon being pulled by those pulling the wagon.

Those in the wagon just voted for a newer, bigger, environmentally-friendly wagon but one without wheels!

54 posted on 11/07/2012 9:10:51 AM PST by zerosix (Native sunflower)
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To: TigerClaws

He who stands for nothing ends as nothing. Mitt stood for nothing. We need to sell America on a movement, not competency. Mitt was trying to sell American on the following: “Sure, Government sucks, but only because I am not in charge of it.” That argument fails just about everytime it is tried.

Oh, and on another note. . the economy no longer matters IF and I say IF, nobody feels the pain. Lesson to Republicans, stop extending jobless benefits.


55 posted on 11/07/2012 9:11:50 AM PST by FlipWilson
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To: TigerClaws

He who stands for nothing ends as nothing. Mitt stood for nothing. We need to sell America on a movement, not competency. Mitt was trying to sell American on the following: “Sure, Government sucks, but only because I am not in charge of it.” That argument fails just about everytime it is tried.

Oh, and on another note. . the economy no longer matters IF and I say IF, nobody feels the pain. Lesson to Republicans, stop extending jobless benefits.


56 posted on 11/07/2012 9:12:08 AM PST by FlipWilson
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To: RIghtwardHo
But, by all means, keep blaming magic and birth certificates. Liberals will love you for it. BTW, that Nation you see out there? It’s turning blue.

I guess i'm a 'closet liberal' too then, because I was nodding my head in agreement to everything you wrote. A 2016 victory begins with us taking off our blinders, stepping outside and finding liberals and... talking to them, help them, employ them. When they have something to lose they become conservatives, When they learn they can get faster, better, help from their neighbors than the government they become conservatives. When they learn to stand on their own, they become conservatives. That starts with us, reaching out and teaching.
57 posted on 11/07/2012 9:13:45 AM PST by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: dila813

Women’s “intuition” ? Please.


58 posted on 11/07/2012 9:14:48 AM PST by newzjunkey
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To: TigerClaws

Give us your sources for your claim that Evangelicals stayed home. I don’t beleive that.


59 posted on 11/07/2012 9:14:58 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: muawiyah

Sorry, this is a case you can’t compare mid terms to generals...and besides, my eyeballs tell me the totals were massive...


60 posted on 11/07/2012 9:15:20 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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To: Tigerized; Venturer

YEP....a FRAUD was committed...a sophisticated fraud


61 posted on 11/07/2012 9:15:20 AM PST by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: HenryArmitage

Thanks. See also my Post #52.


62 posted on 11/07/2012 9:15:51 AM PST by loveliberty2
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To: C. Edmund Wright

There needs to be a major investigation into fraud. No way in hell 15 million less republicans showed up yesterday to vote. No way in hell McCain got 15 million more votes than Romney. How can all the polls be wrong that said republican enthusiasm was way up and democrats way down. Then these numbers come out. And how in the world can the loser get the majority of independent votes and get the majority of voters who say he was better for the economy, which was the defining issue.

To paraphrase Dr. Henry Lee “sumting wrong heah”!!


63 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:00 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
Voter fraud? Indeed!!!!!


64 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:27 AM PST by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: buckalfa

Quote: “The old conservative coalitions are dying off, be they the Silent Majority, Chrisitian Coalition, or Reagan Democrats. These folks had first hand experience with the Great Depression and the Second World War. These hardships instilled self reliance and love of country, traits that are disappearing in today’s world. As such, this election may have been angry white man’s last stand. America’s culture has simply changed.”

Yep and here is the sad part. In order for it to change back it is going to be akin to the alchoholic reaching rock bottom. We will have to go through another depression and disaster before the people of this country get that the sweet piper of liberalism is only leading onto the rocks.


65 posted on 11/07/2012 9:16:38 AM PST by FlipWilson
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: TigerClaws
Establishment RINO’s forced Romney on the conservatives by destroying the tea party candidates and others. This does not incite conservative Americans to support the RINO! Less conservatives voted in this election than voted for McCain, do the math!

Time for a third party!

67 posted on 11/07/2012 9:18:14 AM PST by paratrooper82 (We have been deserted by this WH and left to fend for ourselves in Afghanistan! Both hands tied!)
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To: Falcon28

Drop the FRAUD stuff. The GOP turned out there just is not enough of us to pull out the NEWER demographics of the country. The LATINO voter is on the rise as the exits show and that alone swings states like Colorado and Nevada and New Mexico and is taking hold in other swing states as well.... soon to be Texas. If you/we do not get our heads around that fact say good bye to everything GOP..


68 posted on 11/07/2012 9:18:45 AM PST by Republic Rocker
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To: Phillyred

That’s the job of the GOP governors and GOP majority state legislators; keep creating the conditions in THEIR states that produce better economies in their states, and some of the migration you are looking for will occur.

Part of how California became so blue to begin with is so many Conservatives and economic producers moved to other states.


69 posted on 11/07/2012 9:20:48 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Hojczyk

“The GOP wanted nothing to do with the Tea Party or Sarah Palin..”

that’s where the party elite wss stupid, they were the GOP “ground game” and enlisted directly as such they would have “worked it”


70 posted on 11/07/2012 9:22:55 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Republic Rocker

NOPE...will NOT drop the FRAUD stuff. Counting BALLOTS is different than counting VOTERS....


71 posted on 11/07/2012 9:23:47 AM PST by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: FlipWilson
Near total collapse may be the only way out of our situation but it will take God's will and a benign military for the constitutional republic to be restored.
72 posted on 11/07/2012 9:25:07 AM PST by buckalfa (Nabob of Negativity)
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To: Republic Rocker

In OREGON True the Vote found 2000 “registered voters” to a Homeless center, which does not get mail....the voter rolls here are rife with these kind of “voters” who get ballots....


73 posted on 11/07/2012 9:25:23 AM PST by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: dila813
Do not be quick to dismiss anti-Mormon bigotry among evangelicals. We've seen it for years on FR. Even last night someone said Romney lost because he worshipped a false profit as if the Christian God would favor a man for reelection who champions infanticide over one who articulated for life.

Well, the mormon paper of record disagrees with you on this...

Making lemonade out of lemons, "Mitt Romney's candidacy helped shatter an invisible barrier of religious bigotry"

Of course, the article just has to continue the "persecution" claim.."Among cognoscenti who would never tolerate the brutal official persecution of the LDS Church that happened in the 19th century"...NOW, for the next 50 years they can whine and claim this election as persecution and blame FR Evangelicals.

74 posted on 11/07/2012 9:26:11 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (We told you Mitt wouldn't win.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Posting before reviewing thread: 2,3, or your massive vote fraud supposition in answer to the title.

Not that anything matters. We’ve had 120% documented voter turnout in dim districts and nothing is investigated - even under W’s watch. Sigh.


75 posted on 11/07/2012 9:27:36 AM PST by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: NKP_Vet
you have the wrong numbers. in 2008 the Dems got 69 mil and the Reps got 59 mil.

In 2012 the Dems got 60 mil and the reps got 57 mil. (current totals shown on Drudgereport.com front page at this time)

The question really was about how much variation is there from election to election. The answer is there's major differences between presidential and congressional mid term elections ~ tens of millions of difference, and as great as 45 million in a recent decade.

this time obama had a 9 million vote fall off. he barely got as many votes this time as mccain got last time!

I find that remarkable.

It's possible vote fraud could account for some of that, but how do you account for the Democrat losing 9 million votes?

76 posted on 11/07/2012 9:28:01 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: magellan

I think it is state-by-state turnout that needs to be looked at, because the national turnout total is nothing by itself, it is the sum of the turn out in the states, and there may be some states that hold a major piece of that lower turnout all on their own (like storm ravaged New York and New Jersey - both so “blue” even very low turnout would still be an Obama win).


77 posted on 11/07/2012 9:28:42 AM PST by Wuli
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To: GBT1945

I agree. A more conservative candidate would not have worked either. Mitt is a social moderate and yet the media and the cool kids still made him out as someone at war with your lady parts. The scales are tipping. The workers and the takers are uneven and I am afraid businesses are going to start leaving quickly. Immigration reform will make things worse. No matter who the republicans put up will be mocked and belittled. And those with Obama phones will be eventually rise up and demand more when the money runs out. Until you see Greece type anarchy, I am afraid the republicans, on a national level, will continue to lose. Because the media says so.....


78 posted on 11/07/2012 9:31:56 AM PST by gulf1609
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To: greyfoxx39

I think you replied to the wrong person.


79 posted on 11/07/2012 9:32:53 AM PST by dila813
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I count the GOP-e losses from the 1936 election forward, and it’s MUCH MORE THAN HALF ~ their track record defies common sense.


80 posted on 11/07/2012 9:33:29 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: 84rules

thanks for that data bite on Ohio

when all the data is in, we need to look closer at the numbers for each individual third party in Ohio, and from that surmise MAYBE how much of that we could have attracted with the right candidate


81 posted on 11/07/2012 9:33:29 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Pushead

You’re right the tipping point has been reached. Romney was a decent candidate but there are just too many people dependent on government now. on a bright note we picked up a few governorships and they have to balance their budgets so there is glimmer of hope.


82 posted on 11/07/2012 9:34:25 AM PST by refermech
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To: newzjunkey

Exactly why the republican’s lost the women vote.

Ignore me then, it isn’t going to get any better.


83 posted on 11/07/2012 9:34:50 AM PST by dila813
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To: TigerClaws

turnout lower on both sides...not sure why

almost 129 million in 2008

around 117 million this time

Dem down 9 million

GOP down almost 3 million

hard to figure from that that it was simply GOP turnout down

enthusiasm gap for Romney almost 3 fold increase than that for Obama

but not enough

White vote up 4 points from 55-59

but latino and Oriental votes up as well...offsetting

it’s a new America

and it won’t last


84 posted on 11/07/2012 9:34:53 AM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Logical me

“Dumbed down Americans. Years of communists teaching in our schools, Hollywood productions, and the MSM. Too large to ever defeat.”

I am _extremely_ sorry that I have no choice but to agree with you.


85 posted on 11/07/2012 9:36:07 AM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: sauropod

Replying to the wrong person?

Did I mention birth control? You mad and just lashing out?


86 posted on 11/07/2012 9:37:42 AM PST by dila813
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To: TigerClaws

Ronald Reagan expended considerable effort to bring the Religious Right and other Social Conservatives into the GOP. Since then, the GOP has done its best to minimize their effect without quite driving them from the party.

Ultimately, all those Moderate voters that were promised from the move to the center failed to materialize - as usual.


87 posted on 11/07/2012 9:38:42 AM PST by Ingtar (Everyone complains about the weather, but only Liberals try to legislate it.)
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To: dila813

Sorry...I did reply to the wrong Freeper.


88 posted on 11/07/2012 9:39:06 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (We told you Mitt wouldn't win.)
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To: muawiyah

That I agree on - but still, Obama lost 13-14% of this 08 total and still won? And the polling places were swamped from day one? The awful GOPe aside, something is rotten.


89 posted on 11/07/2012 9:39:08 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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To: TigerClaws

They needed a power hitter or two down the stretch, they got a couple lean guys in slacks and nike running shooes.. frankly, no killer instinct at the end,, everyday should have been about ‘what happened in Benghazi, Mr. Pres__ent?’ day. Instead, kissing babies and hugging survivors.. and a chub of a gub paved the way.. that and flat indifference to Rinos by the few the proud the ‘Masada’ conservatives. :-}


90 posted on 11/07/2012 9:39:53 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: Red Steel

“BTW, Rick Sanctum won big in El Paso county during the primary”

O.K., granted, but the operative term there is “during the primary” and to see how that fits into last night you need Dim registration and Dim voter turn out in El Paso county on their own. If they are a majority and a voting majority in El Paso county, that county may have done no better for Santorum than it did for Romney - in the general election.

Do I know that? No. Just sayin we need all the El Paso county data to know that answer.


91 posted on 11/07/2012 9:40:08 AM PST by Wuli
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To: goodnesswins

I agree with you, massive fraud.


92 posted on 11/07/2012 9:40:23 AM PST by diamond6 (Hulu has "The Hope and the Change" for free: http://www.hulu.com/#!watch/409925)
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To: TigerClaws
I've always known there was voter fraud, vacant lots and condemned buildings registering dozens of democrats, stolen ballots and identies...

But I saw ZERO reports of low turn out this time around. Instead, I deposited my absentee ballot (don't know why they keep sending them to me) as part of the largest crowd I've ever seen and my perception was seconded by an absolutely giddy veteran poll worker.

Now I'm told that 15 million voters stayed home?!

No one needs tinfoil; those aren't voices in your head, I'm araid that they are legitimate and objective observations.

93 posted on 11/07/2012 9:41:57 AM PST by norton
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To: C. Edmund Wright
We only know that SOME polling places were swamped ~ not ALL polling places. This is the first General election after redistricting also, which means there were precinct consolidations, etc.

It's like pro basketball. If that was your only source of information for population statistics in the USA you'd imagine that the average person was a 7' tall black man.

Raising your sights to check out the far more numerous audience at an NBA Game you'd realize, instead that the average person was 5' tall, overweight, and needs to get out in the sun everynow and then.

94 posted on 11/07/2012 9:43:37 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: norton

12 million of them stayed home and 75% of them were Democrats!


95 posted on 11/07/2012 9:45:01 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: TigerClaws

People’s intentions are only known to the Lord (often, people’s intentions are barely known even to themselves). Having said that,
people can be presumed to have intended the obvious or foreseeable consequences of their actions, or inactions.

That millions of Republican voters did not bother to cast a ballot (again!) could mean that they (consciously or not) WANT America to continue to be subverted, undermined, and eventually destroyed by BHusseinO and his “death to America” Islamicist and communistic comrades. They are, after all, well along already with their “God-d*mn Anerika!” agenda....

Think: Freud’s “Death Wish” or drive...

We are, my friends, in bigger trouble than we may have imagined....


96 posted on 11/07/2012 9:46:25 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: dila813

“Women truly do have a intuition ... they have a gut sense when something isn’t right.”

“Romney was setting this off....So was Obama, but Obama was a known commodity.”

Haha! Where’s their intuition on Obama?


97 posted on 11/07/2012 9:46:39 AM PST by ryan71 (Water, food and ammo.)
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To: newfreep

can you tell me please where/what is the source for your red/blue map?? thanks


98 posted on 11/07/2012 9:47:01 AM PST by Wuli
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To: TigerClaws

I am still trying to process Megyn Kelly and BAirs almost “giddy” attitude when Zero WON!!!!!!!...

No hint of sadness there.. and O’Really quite happy as well..
WOndor WHOM at the post offices is in charge of trashing millions of absentee ballots..
WHo would know.?... there is no way of checking..

There are no poll watchers at the post office..


99 posted on 11/07/2012 9:47:17 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: muawiyah

My evidence was not just anecdotal. The official estimate from all supervisors of elections was 138 million. That was late in the game. The total will end up at maybe 122 million or so.


100 posted on 11/07/2012 9:47:32 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("DONE: The GOP Establishment Has Now Lost 2 In a Row")
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