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Affordable Care Act SCOTUS Decision--Live Thread
SCOTUSblog ^ | June 28, 2012 | SCOTUSblog

Posted on 06/28/2012 4:56:21 AM PDT by John W

Today is the day. SCOTUSblog live at 8:45 AM.

(Excerpt) Read more at scotusblog.wpengine.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; backstabberromney; benedictromney; bho44; bhohealthcare; bhoscotus; deathpanels; doomandgloomers; etchasketch; fumr; mitt4romney; natteringnabobs; natterynaybobs; obama4romney; obamacare; obamaoneanddone; obamawhite; obamneycare; promisethemanything; romney4nytimes; romney4romney; romneyantigop; romneycare; ruling; saynotomitt; verminromney; zerocare
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To: Windflier

I don’t think that’s a stretch at all, Windflier. Not a bit.


501 posted on 06/28/2012 8:09:52 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: John W

All that needs to be done now is repeat 4 simple words Glenn Beck has been saying the last few weeks.

I. Will. Not. Comply.


502 posted on 06/28/2012 8:10:05 AM PDT by BlackSeal
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To: LUV W

I won’t be surprised if he is agrees with it. After all, he and Pam Bondi are working on Romneycare on a state-by-state basis—which she insists isn’t the same as Obamacare.

Yeah, whatever.

This is so disappointing....


503 posted on 06/28/2012 8:10:29 AM PDT by Shelayne
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To: little jeremiah
I’m going to throw up. Roberts is a disgusting piece of slime. I’m sick.

Don't be sick. Roberts may have just slapped us all hard enough to truly stand and fight for our country. Get yer marching boots on.

504 posted on 06/28/2012 8:11:13 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: LostInBayport
They used deception in many ways to pass this, in addition to claiming it is not a tax, Kagan was put there to pass this...Holder would not release documents to congress regarding her involvement

The rationing, death panel, was inserted into the stimulus bill .

505 posted on 06/28/2012 8:11:26 AM PDT by opentalk
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To: LUV W

We are trapped between a Baraq and a Bush.

I mean Romney is more liberal than Bush but he’s not quite a commie.

Yipes!


506 posted on 06/28/2012 8:11:31 AM PDT by Leep (Enemy of the StatistI)
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To: DoughtyOne
From FOX: Cantor announces the House will begin repeal of Obamacare on July 9.

STARVE THE BEAST!

507 posted on 06/28/2012 8:11:35 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: Shadowfax
We must make it a disgusting, shameful thing to be a Democrat.

It already is, and now it will get worse.
508 posted on 06/28/2012 8:11:54 AM PDT by novemberslady
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To: All

Take a deep breath everyone. Wait for all the cards to be dealt. GOP House is already scheduling a repeal now that it is confirmed by the highest court as a TAX. Romney about to deliver a live response. Our side is more fired up than ever, their side is so dumb thinking they won when they are gonna lose big. Roberts implied he didn’t necessarily deem ACA as fair or wise, he just punted it back to the leg. branch where we will return it for a touchdown.


509 posted on 06/28/2012 8:12:14 AM PDT by over3Owithabrain
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To: little jeremiah
The line in the sand is crossed, it’s over. Blood in streets and all that is inevitable.

We have been called to be martyrs. Don't go quietly.

510 posted on 06/28/2012 8:12:27 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: wk4bush2004

I agree. I cannot fathom in my mind how a conservative could vote this way, that the mandate is constitutional. Either Roberts was never a conservative or someone got to him.


511 posted on 06/28/2012 8:12:33 AM PDT by Proudcongal
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To: B4Ranch

If you read my post history, you’ll see what I think the chances of Romney actually doing this are. Let’s just say I’m not a fan. I also don’t feel that the best way to repeal Zerocare is by electing the guy who thought it up.

All I’m saying is that if Mutt wants to play the political game and truly hook up with a mad-as-hell Tea Party, that’s the way to do it.


512 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:01 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: Redleg Duke
...the Court has awoken a sleeping giant.

Amen, and pass the ammunition.

513 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:01 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Norm Lenhart

you forget he has the power of the executive order, which will be used to exempt his special interest groups..


514 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:03 AM PDT by newnhdad (Where will you be during the Election Riots of 2012/2013?)
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To: over3Owithabrain

If you refuse to buy insurance and you refuse to pay the fine/tax, then the IRS can put you in jail, right? How is that not coercive? (I’m not addressing this to you specifically, just a general question). There are ways to avoid other taxes. In this case, you pay the tax or go to jail.


515 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:12 AM PDT by GnL
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To: Leep

“Like I said, I don’t see this as a win for Team obama. Its not really a win for the people either.
Otherwise, Obama still has to get congress to fund this monstrosity...”

Without reading the opinion, that’s what I think too. Maybe conservatives are presenting this otherwise to rile the electorate..the left just trying to claim a victory..but bottom line..it looks like the SC punted it back to Congress to re-write this abomination as a tax, pass and fund it. Hopefully soon the opinion will be online and this can be verified.


516 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:17 AM PDT by alamogal
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To: Norm Lenhart

but that 2,000.00 won’t hit them until 2014. So it doesn’t help quite so much in 2012.


517 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:17 AM PDT by Qwackertoo (Gingrich/West 2012)
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To: Jrabbit

I have a prejudice creeping into me against Catholics. There, I said it out loud.


518 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:17 AM PDT by VA40
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To: redgolum

They’ve been threatening another communist-Islamist run on the bank ever since they first realized they could get both President Bush and John McCain to obey orders if threatened with another run on the bank. The day that John McCain suspended his campaign and Bush gave a speech telling the country it would be Armageddon if we didn’t pass TARP. Since then they’ve been threatening eligibility judges, media heads, Cheney, Boehner, etc as necessary. At first it was just about eligibility but it’s expanded to include whatever Soros wants anybody to do. It’s why we all know in our guts that the system is utterly broken.

I believe Roberts’ threat was received the day of the Donofrio conference - the same day Roberts extended an unprecedented and totally unethical ex parte invitation to Obama to visit SCOTUS. Roberts agreed to give the APPEARANCE of a lawful oath of office while actually never having a lawful oath on videotape/record. Just like Cheney agreed to give the APPEARANCE of a lawful certification of electoral votes while in reality never asking for objections as required by law. And just like Hillary gave the APPEARANCE of a lawful 2008 Democratic Convention (which we know was a result of the assassination of the 2 successive individuals who had agreed to challenge Obama’s eligibility at the Convention - both of whom died within 2 weeks of the Convention).

The Bettina Viviano claims of Clinton being threatened via the deaths of Bill Gwatney and Stephanie Tubbs checks out with all the facts. So we know Clinton was threatened over eligibility via assassinations. Mike Zullo of the Cold Case Posse has confirmed that the media heads were threatened if they reported on Obama’s eligibility problem. So we know that threats are the way that Soros/Obama held off the legal problem of his ineligibility. Who else would he have to threaten?

Jerry Corsi says that President Bush found out from the Kenyan government that Obama’s birth records were destroyed - so Bush knew Obama was ineligible but didn’t do anything about it. Why not?

At that time law enforcement was under Bush. Condi Rice could have looked at Obama’s passport file before it was sanitized. The FBI could have looked into any of this. And now Hawaii has indirectly confirmed that the birth record they have for Obama is not legally valid, so anybody who would have checked would have found out the truth. Yet nobody did. Why?

There’s way, way more that I could say, but I believe that the Sept 2008 run on the bank was done by a communist-Islamist alliance headed by George Soros, to get Obama elected after Palin’s entry brought McCain into the lead. The communist-Islamist alliance was the plan that Soros had to destroy the US economy - which he presented to both Hillary and Obama, and only Obama agreed to go along with Soros’ plan. Once the run was made, Soros was able to prove his power to make good on threats to destroy the US economy, and he used those threats - complete with the dry-run illustration of the efficacy of the threats - to accomplish the coup of 2008.

And what we’ve been seeing ever since - the lawlessness, the silence of even “conservative” media, the refusals of Republicans to confront anything Obama wants, the sharia eligibility rulings in both GA and NJ, and now John Roberts as the mouthpiece of Soros - is just the natural outcome of that coup.


519 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:21 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: struggle
HEY FOLKS! DON'T GET DEPRESSED! THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR WE WIN!

You win nothing, and you're not going to win anything. Government does what it wants, and they don't give a flip what you think or say.

Some of you people just don't get it...

520 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:37 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: waxer1
YES OR NO? Does this ruling morphing the mandate into a tax mean it has to go back to Congress? I hope Rush discusses this today.
521 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:46 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (You're screwy! You're spaced! You lost the recall race!)
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To: All
From the Dissent:
The Constitution, though it dates from the founding ofthe Republic, has powerful meaning and vital relevanceto our own times. The constitutional protections that this case involves are protections of structure. Structural protections—notably, the restraints imposed by federalism and separation of powers—are less romantic and have less obvious a connection to personal freedom than the provisions of the Bill of Rights or the Civil War Amendments. Hence they tend to be undervalued or even forgotten by our citizens. It should be the responsibility of the Court to teach otherwise, to remind our people that the Framers considered structural protections of freedom the most important ones, for which reason they alone were embodied in the original Constitution and not left to later amendment. The fragmentation of power produced by the structure of our Government is central to liberty, and when we destroy it, we place liberty at peril. Today’s decision should have vindicated, should have taught, this truth; instead, our judgment today has disregarded it. For the reasons here stated, we would find the Act invalid in its entirety. We respectfully dissent.

522 posted on 06/28/2012 8:13:48 AM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: Windflier
From Scotusblog, seeming to reinforce the emerging idea that the penalty piece of this is actually a tax. And as a tax it takes on a different form.

"Salvaging the idea that Congress did have the power to try to expand health care to virtually all Americans, the Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of the crucial – and most controversial — feature of the Affordable Care Act. By a vote of 5-4, however, the Court did not sustain it as a command for Americans to buy insurance, but as a tax if they don’t. That is the way Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., was willing to vote for it, and his view prevailed. The other Justices split 4-4, with four wanting to uphold it as a mandate, and four opposed to it in any form."

523 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:03 AM PDT by paul544
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To: little jeremiah; Carry_Okie

>> “Roberts is a disgusting piece of slime.” <<

.
Roberts is exactly what we knew he was from day one!

It makes me sick every time someone here praises Roberts.


524 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:12 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: dragnet2

Obama is just a symptom of the disease, the bottom line is the American people suck, this is what they want. We are the minority.


525 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:32 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Colonel_Flagg

SCOTUS BLOG: “Salvaging the idea that Congress did have the power to try to expand health care to virtually all Americans, the Supreme Court on Monday upheld the constitutionality of the crucial – and most controversial — feature of the Affordable Care Act. By a vote of 5-4, however, the Court did not sustain it as a command for Americans to buy insurance, but as a tax if they don’t. That is the way Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., was willing to vote for it, and his view prevailed. The other Justices split 4-4, with four wanting to uphold it as a mandate, and four opposed to it in any form.”


526 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:32 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: RummyChick
That's quite interesting. Since the Court decided the "individual mandate" was a tax, under the Anti-Injunction Act (AIA), federal courts should not be hearing ObamaCare cases until it's fully implemented and someone pays a penalty in 2015. That's what the 4th Circuit found while two other Circuits believed AIA didn't apply to the mandate.

Bizarre.

527 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:37 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: Stat Man
The Supreme Court has just declared that Congress can force almost ANYTHING on us (except perhaps telling the truth about military service), so long as the penalty for non-compliance is a tax.

I would have rather Roberts just upheld the commerce clause argument rather than open this pandora's box.

What Roberts did goes far beyond this law.

528 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:54 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: over3Owithabrain

This may play out to our advantage. I think the sleepers have been awakened.


529 posted on 06/28/2012 8:14:54 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Buying Drain-O requires photo I.D... yet voting doesn't???)
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To: daisy mae for the usa

Au contraire. If you would rather stay home instead of voting against the Marxist who is already in the WH, then *you* are the Marxist fool.

I’ve got 4 years of Marianist education and 4 more of Jesuit education under my belt. I consider myself quite well educated.


530 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:02 AM PDT by Windcatcher (Obama is a COMMUNIST and the MSM is his armband-wearing propaganda machine.)
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To: MinuteGal

I’m waiting for his take, too. It has not been a good day, for other reasons also.


531 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:02 AM PDT by stayathomemom (Beware of kittens modifying your posts.)
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To: Jane Long

Romneys next campaign ad should be of Obama saying over and over that this wasnt going to be a tax!!


532 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:06 AM PDT by stuck_in_new_orleans
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To: Jane Long

Since it is now considered a tax..someone should file a suit against the waivers because they are granted arbitrarily..since the waivers were not written as a tax bill for the IRS to implement


533 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:06 AM PDT by fedupjohn
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To: MinuteGal; StarFan
I can't wait to hear Rush today! I'm so outraged right now...

CNN celebrating ... some guy blabbing now, making fun of how "the conservatives' faces in the room just fell when they heard the ruling". Grr!

Fox News dropped their SCOTUS coverage, and has Neil Cavuto talking to Rupert Murdoch? What the F....?

Ugh, Obozo supposed to "address the nation" at 12:15pm, thus pre-empting Rush.

534 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:32 AM PDT by nutmeg (I'm with Sarah Palin: Anybody But Obama 2012)
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To: paul544
“6-3 overall, but he saved the mandate.”

Pelosi said it would be 6-3....did someone leak?

535 posted on 06/28/2012 8:15:49 AM PDT by hummingbird (Breitbart and Spartacus: here, there, everywhere.)
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To: StAnDeliver
From FOX: Cantor announces the House will begin repeal of Obamacare on July 9. STARVE THE BEAST!

Yes!!!

536 posted on 06/28/2012 8:16:12 AM PDT by tapatio (In memory of my Dad 5-27-26 2-4-2010)
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To: newnhdad

Good!!!

The more EOs the BETTER!!

Let him EO everything from today forward...and reap the rewards. Up until today the DOP has had cover. That cover has been stripped by Roberts and the libs of the court.

Think UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.


537 posted on 06/28/2012 8:16:52 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Outraged At FLA

It seems as though, with great concern for his legacy, Roberts reads the future of the court as a progressive institution and he is determined t lead it. We now have a five / four progressive court where the majority will search for arguments to legitimize progressive laws.

Now, rhetoric aside, the progressives see the advantage the party in power can benefit by Citizens United. The legislature can use taxing power to coerce individual behavior. Look for a rush of corporate money to elect progressives and gain benefit from Obamacare.

Roberts is merely an opportunist.


538 posted on 06/28/2012 8:16:52 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: kabar

Oh come on you know passing big taxes are not politically popular.


539 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:08 AM PDT by snarkytart (http://www.freerepubli224%2C1)
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To: Outraged At FLA

In Obama’s second term we can all be required to purchase Chevy Volts or pay a tax. It’s just a tax so it’s constitutional to do that. I’m thinking GM stock should go up today.


540 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:18 AM PDT by bkepley
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To: PennsylvaniaMom

Romney’s probably busy picking his jaw up off the floor like the rest of us. He probably had his speech all ready to pounce on a conservative victory, probably never even had a lose speech.


541 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:29 AM PDT by Proudcongal
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To: dfwgator
"Give it up, we lost, it’s over. Roberts Judased us."

Don't be a glass chewer.

542 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:41 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: over3Owithabrain

“That’s why this is a win. The SCOTUS disagrees with Obama - the ACA IS A TAX. As such SCOTUS cannot stop it. But the legislative branch can. That said the ruling is nuts - SCOTUS is saying the government is not making you do anything if you can refuse to do it and pay a fine. Horrible precedent but politically a win.”

No, this is a HUGE, EARTHSHATTERING LOSS. The politics matter very little now. The precedent that was set here is a complete transfer of our right to make decisions about our own lives over to Congress. So what if we have a better chance of beating Obama and repealing healthcare. Don’t you see that UNTIL THIS RULING IS REVERSED by a future Supreme Court, it means that any conservative government simply represents a government that’s more benevolent, and the same unlimited power will still remain for the next leftist that’s elected?


543 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:45 AM PDT by Stat Man
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To: B4Ranch

We have always hoped for some constraint, provided by the three branches, Obama and Pelosi destroyed that. This country has been moving down this road since Wilson so it has been longer than 50 years.


544 posted on 06/28/2012 8:17:45 AM PDT by OldGoatCPO
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To: StAnDeliver

After Obama amnesty to almost a million — illegals will be the beneficiaries, as citizens fund it and resources are stretched


545 posted on 06/28/2012 8:18:07 AM PDT by opentalk
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To: Stat Man

With a careful re-read of your initial post and its follow up, I’m finding myself praising you again. You are quite correct.


546 posted on 06/28/2012 8:18:15 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: PJ-Comix

Good question. If it must be a tax then it has to be in the tax code. Is it?


547 posted on 06/28/2012 8:18:20 AM PDT by Windcatcher (Obama is a COMMUNIST and the MSM is his armband-wearing propaganda machine.)
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To: over3Owithabrain
I love your take on this. I am praying you are right.We need to start this morning with a chant.....

REPEAL, REPEAL, REPEAL

548 posted on 06/28/2012 8:18:24 AM PDT by pollywog ("O Thou who changest not, abide with me.".......)
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To: GnL

You are right it is coercive. But all taxes are. Theoretically Congress can pass, and the president can sign, a 99 percent income tax tomorrow. What stops them isn’t the SCOTUS - it is US.


549 posted on 06/28/2012 8:18:32 AM PDT by over3Owithabrain
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To: GnL

I wondered the same thing.


550 posted on 06/28/2012 8:19:06 AM PDT by stayathomemom (Beware of kittens modifying your posts.)
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