Posted on 01/08/2011 10:07:36 PM PST by DesertRenegade
I guess I don’t understand how one could not tell? IMHO these women must have to over look a lot of obivous signs to be fooled this badly. Perhpas the desire to be married cancels out their abiity to think straight?
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Growing up in a gay community, there are a lot of men who are very good at hiding it.
There are not always signs. Gays a masters of deception (to themselves and to others).
“I will admit that priests don’t mention it often, but in this age where drug use, cohabiting without marriage, and much more is also acceptable to society, homosexuality can’t be the only issue here. I will admit that certain matters such as proposition 8 and promoting the traditional marriage are important, but this is an attack on a four-sided wall, not a one sided wall.”
Never said it was the only issue, and nor should it be the only issue.
I’d add things like previous sexual experience, abortion, homosexuality, etc, all need to be discussed before you get married. Anything that ought to have been confessed to the priest the spouse also ought to be *aware* of it. The consequences of deviating from this are harsh.
I’m not saying and nor did I ever say that it happens only with the men marrying the women. I actually know more cases of the inverse. I agree that those who haven’t declared are as you would say, often willing to lie wholeheartedly but there are always clues.
Always.
If someone is unwilling to discuss these issues, and you are afraid of discussing it with them, that is a warning sign right there that you are not meant to be with this person. Is that a high standard? Yes.
“There are not always signs. Gays a masters of deception (to themselves and to others).”
There are always signs. Always.
I am not blaming you for making the decision that you did.
What you said here, with your family automatically raises warning signs. I’d say the same thing with anyone who had divorced parents.
I would want to know them and their family and everything that has gone on about it. I’d want to know why it happened. This has a profoundly negative impact on the kids and their future marriage.
There are always signs. Always.
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No there aren’t. That is a myth. If there were signs I would have seen them given where I grew up and my father. There weren’t any. And 20 years later, looking back, I will STILL say there weren’t any.
How many gays do you know personally? Because I have known thousands in my life (literally) and you couldn’t always tell.
Sure as hell sounds like you are blaming me or trying to psychoanalyze me. No thanks.
Can’t you get that he didn’t know, or if he did, he hid it well at the risk of being shunned and blacklisted by his family, friends and excommunicated by his church?
There is a lot of motivation for gay Mormons to appear and pretend to be ‘straight’, moreso than in America in general.
People don't always telegraph their intentions. Don't insult my wife.
“How many gays do you know personally?”
If I wanted to know who was a lesbian, do you think I’d be asking a guy? No. I’d be asking the women. Same with gay men. You want to know who’s gay, talk to the guys and listen to them.
Yeah, I’ve had a fair number as acquaintances, and friends, but I’ll tell you one thing about guys. There’s a side that they will show to other guys, and one that they show to girls. These are never the same.
“Can’t you get that he didn’t know, or if he did, he hid it well at the risk of being shunned and blacklisted by his family, friends and excommunicated by his church?”
I’ve known plenty in the same situation. And we’ve talked, just the two of us, nobody else. Catholics, mormons, etc.
There are signs if you are willing to look closely enough. I realise you feel offended by what I am saying, but I am speaking from experience.
If I were involved with a gal, and it later came out that she was dating another gal, and I was shocked, what do you think I’d be doing? I’d be looking around and asking myself, what is it about her that made me attracted to her?
Anyways, if you want to drag Mr. Reaganaut in to defend your honour, fine. But I doubt I’m saying anything here that you’ve not already thought about.
I apologise ma’am. I’ll be sure not to discuss such things with you in the future.
Eh, back off sir.
This doesn’t involve you and confirms my opinion. If you wish to dissuade me, I suggest you try something else.
Dissuade you, sir? I wouldn’t dare.
Obviously you know everything (doubtless because you are a Jedi Master). Well, everything but humility.
Look, you chose to comment on your father being gay, and you expect us to be shocked when you tell us that your initial beau was gay.
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That is YOUR assumption, the guy in question wasn’t close to my first ‘beau’ and wasn’t even my first fiancee (the other engagment broke off for different reasons).
And yes, I blame Mormon culture, because if it hadn’t bee so sexually repressive, perhaps he would have not had so much invested in keeping up a lie or hiding what he felt. Perhaps he would have realized it before he got engaged.
I am a victim here, not a co-conspirator.
And my experiences are my experiences and our contrary to yours. And it would appear, I have a lot more experience than you do in this matter, since you have only been a third party observer.
Let me know when your wife comes out of the closet if you saw the signs.
You requested that I do not respond to you.
“I am a victim here.”
And that about wraps it up.
“I have a lot more experience than you do in this matter”
Yes ma’am, whatever you say.
“Let me know when your wife comes out of the closet if you saw the signs.”
Kind words. Ma’am, if I may be so bold, you aren’t helping yourself.
“I blame Mormon culture, because if it hadn’t bee so sexually repressive, perhaps he would have not had so much invested in keeping up a lie or hiding what he felt.”
So all would have been well, if he had been ‘out’?
Interesting argument. I disagree strenously that ‘sexual repression’ is part of the problem. No, the problem is that people are unwilling to discuss sins with their potential spouses, and walk into it blind. The spouse must know what they are getting themselves into.
“If someone is unwilling to discuss these issues, and you are afraid of discussing it with them, that is a warning sign right there that you are not meant to be with this person. Is that a high standard? Yes.”
I wouldn’t just think of it as a high standard, it is something most of us should be doing, come to think of it. It’s honestly also the reason for emphasizing the old Judeo-Christian standard of not entering sexual relationships prior to the marital vows being set forth. It was disheartening that this woman had to find out the truth about someone who cohabited with her for years, but people should know that cohabitation without marriage, much less sexual relationships with anyone to whom you are not married, carries serious risks, not just STDs, but relationships that can go very wrong.
I feel lucky in a way that my parents had will to actually emphasize to me how it wasn’t right, much less wise, to cohabit without marriage, now it’s also a time where seeing some of the major risks that such behaviors can pose at times. I can’t say I know everything about this story, but it appears that a great deal of what you said should be asked may not have been asked by the woman to the man sho she was living with.
She should have known after two years, max, that the relationship was not for real. At that point she should have simply shown him the door. Why women hang on for ten years, listening to every excuse under the sun not to marry, is beyond me. These women envision themselves as enlightened, the intelligentsia as it were, but in the end they are incredibly stupid when it comes to their own, personal lives.
So if he had been watching racoons hump, would he have been into small animals ?
I like certain foods, other ones make me sick, if I try one of the ones that makes me wretch and vomit, I'll get sick, I'm not going to go near it a second time, if I like it, I'll want more of it.
Thats gay porn in a nutshell, I'm sorry but your friend, (for whatever reason) was gay, everything else was just a sign.
The fact that he was even able to look at gay porn, and not be revolted on sight, or disgusted, that he would ever even (or want to ) look a second time, says everything.
Even now, I'm feeling queasy, gay porn has the same reaction on me, as say having milk thats been sitting out on the table for a few weeks, if someone can like that milk, and go for seconds, that pretty much tells you everything about them.
That's an excellent question. The biggest reason for male homosexuality is the breakdown in the family structure--fathers being physically and/or emotionally absent (who may have suffered the same fate from their own fathers, and so on). Hundreds of years ago, homosexuals were a rarity. Sadly, in our broken society, they're becoming more and more common.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there is no such thing as someone who is "gay" per se. They are simply split off from a valid but unaffirmed part of themselves. Their gender identity is there, lying dormant, but because they are separated from it, they cannot recognize it or accept it. In a nutshell, a male homosexual doesn't feel like a man, and a female homosexual doesn't feel like a woman. But this condition is neither genetic nor permanent. It is something that God can heal, if people know how to pray about it. It won't be healed overnight, of course. The process often lasts years. It's kind of like going to Weight Watchers. You don't walk in there 150 pounds overweight, and then walk out a few hours later a size two. ;) In general, I don't like to refer to someone as "gay," because it's over-identifying with their problem and under-identifying with the true, normal person God created IMO.
Of course, the breakdown in family doesn't just result in a homosexual vs. heterosexual problem. Because of the lack of effective fathers, many, many heterosexual men are insecure in their masculinity as well. Even though they are still sexually attracted to women, they may not feel as manly or masculine as other men, and will have emotional problems their whole lives. To compensate, they may work at the office 24/7, work out at the gym 15 hours a week, act "macho" to conceal their insecurities, have numerous affairs to prove their "manhood," etc. They have difficulties accepting themselves as men, suffer from low self-esteem, and never quite feel "good enough." But the good news is that God, who is so masculine that even men are feminine in relation to Him, can heal any emotional deficits that a person suffers from, even those that began in childhood or infancy.
And women are certainly affected by lack of fathering as well. They may suffer from low self-esteem, have difficulties relating to men, expect too much emotionally from their husbands or boyfriends, become controlling and domineering, etc. The list of problems caused by the breakdown of family can fill up volumes. :(
That's another reason that society's acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle is so dangerous--it just furthers the dissolution of the family structure that God created, causing more chaos.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. If someone struggles with same-sex attractions, why should they wear that on their sleeve? Of course, you should never deceive someone you're dating into thinking you're something that you're not. You have my deep sympathy for your heart-wrenching experience. But maybe a lot of these men are hoping to find some sexual attraction to women. That just goes to show that part of their normal sex drive is still there, even if it has become seriously weakened. It's a myth that all male homosexuals have no attraction toward women. Many of them may not, but it seems that some do, at least to an extent.
She’s admitting to the crime.
You had me confused for a moment!
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