Columbia crew didn't stand a chance, NASA says

globeandmail.com ^ | 12/31/2008 | Irene Klotz

[Nik Naym]

No. Walter Mondale was not from Utah.

But it WAS politics that made them require multi section solid boosters. The boosters had to be made in sections so they could be transported from Utah. I can’t remember which pork grabbing congresscritter was in Utah at the time (early 70s) that got this pushed through as a price for his support.

The boosters could have been single piece if they were made near the point of use.

Solid boosters are scary because they can not be stopped or even throttled once they ignite. But they easier and cheaper to handle.

[thatjoeguy]

I read through the summary portion of the report and here’s what I got from it:

Upon the initial breakup of the vehicle (lose of the wing) the crew module and main cargo bay went into a type of spin which only resulted in about 1-3Gs.

Although the crew could have survived this phase the breakup caused the crew module to de-compress at such a rate that they all blacked out. Two of the crew members were completed suited up and only needed to pull their visors down but they never did. The other crew members either didn’t have their gloves on or helmets on and never really had a chance. This phase lasted about 40 seconds but as I mentioned the crew at this point had already passed out.

Following that phase the main shuttle began to completely break apart and the crew module once separated from the main body began to tumble. At this point as the crew module began to tumble the Gs went from the 1-3Gs to spiking in the range of 30Gs. This is where the shoulder harnesses that should have retracted failed in a sense and they don’t know why. The helmets also were not designed to protect from this type of violent movement thus the head trauma. This phase lasted about 15 seconds and it was extremely unlikely any of the crew survived this phase.

After this phase the crew module and other larger pieces really began to come apart and the rest is now history.

Its a shame to lose such good people over mismanagement or oversight.

JB

[TChad]

Nope, it was the cold temperatures on the 0-rings. Hard as rock didn’t seal.

As Richard Feynman told the Rogers Commission, but they did not want to hear it. They wanted a whitewash that exonerated NASA. So Feynman bypassed the commission with his clever public demonstration using a section of O-ring material compressed by a C clamp and immersed in ice-water. The world saw that the material had little resilience when cold.

Feynman found the Thiokol engineers' personal estimates of catastrophic failure was 1%-2% (not 33%), while NASA's official estimate-fantasy was 1 in 100,000.

This is discussed in detail in Feynman's book "What Do You Care What Other People Think?"

[bvw]

Yes, I know what socialism is. American socialism produces things like HUD and Section 8 housing. Things like bridges to nowhere, things like

Robert C. Byrd Drive, from Beckley to Sophia (Byrd’s hometown)
Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center at Wheeling Jesuit University
Robert C. Byrd Highway
Robert C. Byrd Federal Correctional Institution
Robert C. Byrd High School

Robert C. Byrd Freeway
Robert C. Byrd Center for Hospitality and Tourism
Robert C. Byrd Science Center
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center of West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Cancer Research Center

Robert C. Byrd Technology Center at Alderson-Broaddus College
Robert C. Byrd Hardwood Technologies Center, near Princeton
Robert C. Byrd Bridge between Huntington and Chesapeake, Ohio
Robert C. Byrd addition to the lodge at Oglebay Park, Wheeling
Robert C. Byrd Community Center, Pine Grove

Robert C. Byrd Honors Scholarships
Robert C. Byrd Expressway, U.S. 52 near Weirton
Robert C. Byrd Institute in Charleston
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing
Robert C. Byrd Visitor Center at Harpers Ferry National Historic Park

Robert C. Byrd Federal Courthouse
Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center
Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center
Robert C. Byrd Federal Building (there are two)
Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex

Robert C. Byrd Library and Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center
Robert C. Byrd Rural Health Center
Robert C. Byrd Clinical Addition to the veteran’s hospital in Huntington
Robert C. Byrd Industrial Park, Hardy County
Robert C. Byrd Scholastic Recognition Award

Robert C. Byrd Community Center in the naval station, Sugar Grove
Robert C. Byrd Clinic at the West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine
Robert C. Byrd Biotechnology Science Center at Marshall University

And the LBJ-ian socialism. The Johnson Space Center, y’know. The Space Shuttle to nowhere.

By the by, amigo, y’all bettah be more careful who y’all ask a very dumb question.

[TChad]

Some people call those “Byrd droppings.”

[bvw]

The rate of actual catastrophic failure to date is 1.5% That's 133 flights, 2 catastrophic failures.

Let's take a comparison. At any given moment there are about 5000 flights in the air above the USA. A 1.5% catastrophic failure rate would mean that we have 10 or so fatal crashes an hour, hour after hour, day after day.

In other words 1.5% failure is a rate that no sane person should find close to tolerable. It's murder.

[freepersup]

It’s not murder... sheesh! It’s space exploration with inherent risks. Spam in a can... Riding a bomb... That there haven’t been more catastrophic disasters is the wonder. Your comparison isn’t apples to apples. It’s more like comparing apples to a redwood tree, or oranges to a sea urchin.

[GreyMountainReagan]

Experience I have had that in situations like that, a group is responsible for a system and others will not override them.

“I guess it is OK, the designer bought off on the decision.”

I am sure they were aware but the knowledge was concentrated at Morton Thiokol and the decision that the boosters were ready to GO was from Morton Thioklol so the developer/designer of the shuttle tiles will not override the designer of the booster.

[bvw]

It’s not exploration, it’s not science, it’s not even technology. Its a socialistic jobs program that considers death of the “heroes” a necessary sacrifice.

[GreyMountainReagan]

Exactly. Socialism demands that the activities are process orientated instead of results orientated. Process says to use bad glue, results says 7 people dead.

EPA law says that glue used for foam insulation on ductwork in a building can’t exceed certain concentration and this law must be applied to foam on a freakin space ship carrying 7 people at 18,000 mph.

Let’s not use what is best but let’s keep a couple of molecules from entering the atmosphere from the bad glue.

“Oh crap instead of a couple of lbs of glue in the atmosphere we have easily 7 dead people and thousands of lbs of toxic waste in the atmosphere.”

How is that Protecting the Environment. (EPA right).

EPA killed 7 people. NASA knew the glue was as effective. To protect the environment (HA) they killed 7 people.

[freepersup]

Foam did not adhere to the fuel tanks due to the fatal switching to an environmentally friendly formula. A superior formula, although less green, worked far better, yet was discontinued. There was a cause and effect. Political correctness killed the crew. As the figure head of the environmentalists, Al Gore killed the crew.

[TChad]

1.5% failure is a rate that no sane person should find close to tolerable. It's murder.

I bet that most or all of the astronauts would have chosen to fly even with certain knowledge that they had only a 98.5% chance of coming back alive.

[GreyMountainReagan]

“NASA knew the glue was as effective. “

NOT as effective.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

[bvw]

War is VERY risky. The recent "surge" in Iraq was 140,000 troops. A 1.5% catastrophic failure rate per month in that endeavor would have meant EVERY American soldier killed. What was the rate? About 0.07%.

What does that mean? That means that Americans tolerate TWENTY TIMES less acceptable risk in WAR than they do in the scientifically worthless Shuttle Program. Great PR machine NASA has. And the public, is, well, gullible. Murderously gullible.

[bvw]

Assisted suicide is still suicide.

[bvw]

The foam feel off before and still falls off. It may be less, but it is still a problem. One of hundreds of small percentage but deadly risks in worthless socialistic jobs program. The risks add up. More heroic sacrifices needed.

It's murder.

[TChad]

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

Errors in posts are a bitch, aren't they? I wish I could correct about a third of my FR posts. Errors in tense and number, words repeated too often, words omitted, simple typos, etc.

I just keep telling myself that I'm not being paid for this.

[Eye of Unk]

I heard that Hilary Clinton lobbied for the banning of the stronger proven spray on insulation to something more “green” and the new insulation was not much better than the stuff you buy at hardware stores, pieces of it came off at high speeds and punctured the fuselage of the shuttle.

Actually it was much more than a rumor it was proven to be the case and I think I actually made this identical comment about Hillary on a thread just after the Columbia accident.

[bvw]

The recent "surge" in Iraq was 140,000 troops. A 1.5% catastrophic failure rate per month in that endeavor would have meant EVERY American soldier killed.

Oops -- one decimal place off. Not EVERY soldier killed, just 25,000. That would be just as unacceptable.

[GreyMountainReagan]

The 1.5% was for shuttle flights as a whole.

This particular flight it was ~30%