Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 24 June 2007

Various big media television networks ^ | 24 June 2007 | Various Self-Serving Politicians and Big Media Screaming Faces

[Alas Babylon!]

The Talk Shows

Sunday, June 24th, 2007

Guests to be interviewed today on major television talk shows:

FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network): Sens. Trent Lott, R-Miss., and Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.; Cal Ripken Jr., former Baltimore Orioles shortstop.

MEET THE PRESS (NBC): Former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan; Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill.

FACE THE NATION (CBS): Former New York Mayor Ed Koch; political consultant Ed Rollins; actor Sam Waterston.

THIS WEEK (ABC): Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.; actor David Hyde Pierce.

LATE EDITION (CNN) : Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet; Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, and Ron Wyden, D-Ore.; Dennis Ross, former U.S. Mideast envoy; Egyptian Ambassador Nabil Fahmy; Israeli Ambassador Sallai Meridor.

[Cedric]

An angry man stirs up strife, and a furious man abounds in transgression - Proverbs 29:22

Pray for bray and his coyotes.

[maica]

Very interesting. Which news operations make a profit on TV?

[Cedric]

I forgive bray for calling me a: “jerkwad”, “girlyman”, “jerk”, “little girl”, “coward”, “sissy”, “fraudric” and “pinhead” over the course of the past five hours, in direct contravention of the eminently civil, stated, Free Republic guidelines.
Mr. Moderator, please find it within your generous and compassionate heart to refrain from meting out sanctions (however well deserved) to brother bray despite the fact that just yesterday he said, “It’s so good to see that conservatives can discuss the biggest issue of the day and not resort to thuggish namecalling.”

Pray for bray and his coyotes.

Amen

[bray]

Mr Moderator could care less about you or me so try another dodge.

Like every bully, you are a coward who runs behind his mommy whenever he gets punched in the nose. So answer the question girly. Quit dodging like a little coward.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[bray]

Looks like Mommy and your “friends” are not coming to fight your fight so your on your own cowardic. You’ve been asking for this for 2 weeks so here’s your chance. Just like every bully you are afraid of anyone who calls your bluff.

Now answer the question girlygirl. Where you going to find the dependable workers after you deport 10 million of them??

Pray for W and Our Amazing Troops

[bray]

Still waiting Cindy....

Why don’t you go over to the Ladies Home Journal forums and bully them. Well, until someone calls your bluff and flattens you like a Cowpie on a hot Texas Highway.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[MNJohnnie]

Hearing that the “Amnesty bill” went down in flames today, I am stuck with question in my head I am hoping the “Jedi Counsel” of Free Republic can answer for me.

So now what on Illegal Immigration?

Conservatives cannot get only what they want, the Democrats filibustered their bill last year. Conservatives did not like what could be done politically this year so the Republicans filibustered it. So now the answer is “Do nothing”? But that is what was suppose to be the problem originally!

So NOW what? Because the whole reason this issue came up was people were, for the last 4-5 years, daily complaining about “We got to do something about the border or it will destroy the country”.

So now what?

[kabar]

So now what on Illegal Immigration?

Secure the border including the implementation of the US Visit program so we can track, monitor, and deport visa overstays. This is matter of national security and should be our highest priority. Amy delay in doing this is indefensible. If the WH and the Dems continue to hold our national security hostage to comprehensive immigration reform, we should organize and confront our elected leaders. There has to be a consequence for not enforcing our laws.

We have to go on the offensive politically. We should demand that we collect data on illegal immigrants so we can make good public policy. For starters, we really don't know how may are even here. How anyone can make good public policy without reliable data is beyond my comprehension. Imagine if the estimates of 12 million illegal immigrants are wrong and the real number is two to three times that as was the case in 1986. Not only would we be legalizing the status of those already here, we would be bringing in two to three times that number as LEGAL immigrants thru chain migration.

We dodged a major bullet today, but now it is time to go on the offensive and stop reacting to the initiatives of the corporate, special interest, and labor unions who have bought and control most of our representatives. The very fact that we reached this point despite the fact that only 26% of the American people supported this bill shows in what sad shape this country is in. It is time for a change. Graham, Hegel, and Lott should go. We should work for conservative candidates in the primaries.

[eeevil conservative]

Johnnie

you are starting to sound like McCain....

I prefer Newt...although Newt is not perfect— I prefer his stronger stance on being conservative as opposed to your “we can’t win....the Dems rule.....give in... give in.....” whining...

My family members have served this country, risking their lives...for MY right and YOUR right to be free....

When 80% of Americans are against a bill, and the Senate is determined to SHOVE it down our throats ANYWAY...

YOU of ALL people==I believe would be calling for CHANGE...

THIS issue may have been the just the spotlight to bring to the fore what we all already know...

It is NOT just THIS bill...

It is the whole package of what goes on in DC..

It is TIME!

Time for ALL OF US- to take back the heritage our forefathers left us...

government BY THE PEOPLE!

the WILL OF THE PEOPLE...

not the WILL of the ELITE in DC!

I choose to fight for what I believe in...

I choose to be a Ceasar Rodney....not a Benedict Arnold...

[Phsstpok]

First and foremost I believe that the thrust now needs to be to decouple border security from enforcement and/or amnesty for those already here. The latter issue has been used to hold the former issue hostage. We must consciously and forcefully say that we are worried about fixing the border and not interested in talking about those already here until the border security issue can reasonably be considered solved.

As a separate thrust those obsessed with those issues can pursue the enforcement of existing laws by shining the light of publicity on the sweat shops and other exploitative workplaces that thrive on illegals, not by trying to push through new laws.  We gain no ground in the debate by allowing ourselves to be painted as anti-immigrant.  We can advance our arguments a long way by pointing out how a large percentage of those in this country illegal are able to be exploited because of that illegal status.

This is basically Fred Thompson’s advice from a few weeks ago (also here).  I also think that this question should be made part of the debate for the presidential election. Let our prospective leaders put forward their ideas for solving the broader problems (after the border is secured) and see how their ideas play with the people.

What a novel concept.

[advertising guy]

wish I knew how to start a thread and satisfy the vanity police of course, with what I wrote in post 495

The thread would expose the truth by exposing the adsurd in quote and video. It would stand up in a court of law
as evidence.

We won the immigration bill so far so let’s expose the needed “sqishy middle” what the socialist unfree speech police had intended for us AND THEM.

the meat of this post is from post 495 of the sunday thread

[rodguy911]

If I had to make a really wild guess it would be wait and see who wins the presidential election with high hopes that someone(maybe Fred T.) will run on a “secure the border platform) and actually win.
Even if he does win with a rat congress it will be a near impossible dream to get it done, (build the fence ).

I stand by what I said some time ago that any progress made on securing the border and dealing with illegal aliens will be done at the state and or local level in cities, counties etc.
The feds are just not going to get the job done.

I know you want a compromise to get at least something done MNJ, but as we have seen too many are not willing to compromise border security, its a “hard”(inflexible) issue.

In addition I will credit talk radio(either rightly or wrongly) with ginning up the base to accept no bill as a win.

[rodguy911]

I am afraid that the only thing that will get the attention of the Mexicon vote appeasing politicians in both houses is for a high mortality rate to happen in either house in 08, and frankly a lot of this will be history a year from Nov.

Once again if you really want something done on the border and concerning the illegal invasion, and it is an invasion make no mistakes,think local.

[Phsstpok]

So we should bring in the brightest of the bright to pick the crops?? How stupid would that be??

No, they'll help achieve viable alternatives and then we won't be demanding that people do back braking, demeaning and dehumanizing labor for less than subsistance wages so that we can eat a cheap head of lettuce.  

Farms Fund Robots to Replace Migrant Fruit Pickers

The longer we run our economy on exploiting other human beings the more it drags us down.  The Romans, Americans of the Confederacy and many others didn't learn that lesson.

How stupid is that?  All you have to do is look at history to see that this economic model is destructive and those thus destroyed deserved their fate. 

[bray]

Funny how when I was 18 I was trying to get some of that back breaking, demeaning and dehumanizing labor for less than subsistance wages so you could have a cheap apple, pear or peach. It may be dehumanizing to you but not to the person doing the work.

The bill is dead and will never be brought up again. The market will determine who does the labor. Which is better than the gummit.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[Phsstpok]

... Please tell me when, prior to the year 2000, several of the chief political operatives of a former President where hired to be either the head of the political “news” section of one of the big 3 major US broadcast News organizations, or as “analysis” for major cable news networks? ...

Not exactly a direct response to your question, but how long has Lil Timmah been political top dog for NBC?  He was Tip O'Neill's bag man for many years.  And Pat Buchanan was one of Nixon's top guys (though he was hired by Ted Turner to discredit conservatives, not to promote their ideas).

And then there's JFK's press secretary, Pierre Salinger, working as a top foreign news analyst for ABC from the mid 70s on.  And then there's the evil that is Bill Moyers, who was one of LBJs designated hit men, the 1960s version of Curious Georgie Steponallofus, who has basically run the PBS news coverage for 40 years.

I could go on given a little time.

[Phsstpok]

...Businesses cannot be expected to objectively operate in any manner other than to maximize profits. It is neither their orientation nor obligation to be "interested" in the welfare of our country.

That's what laws are for; we merely need to incentivize legal enforcement rather than reward violations of the law. It's that simple....

I know I'm dragging you back to a discussion from last week, but I have to say I disagree with this position, though it is the common and accepted view today.  I hold to the Adam Smith, Puritan and other early Christian business doctrines of "enlightened self interest" that drove many of the early business leaders, up until the early part of the last century.  History only tells of the abuses by business as part of justifying the labor movement (never questioning it's excesses), but it doesn't tell of the benevolent and positive actions of business designed to give back to the community.  The fact that many of those acts were paternalistic and ignored some basic realities, such as living wage, health care, etc., is attributable to ignorance in most  cases, not malice.

It is in a businesses best interests when they are concerned about their community and the effects of their actions on their neighbors and the nation as a whole.  Depending on laws to do it, meaning government, is the same as depending on government for taking care of the poor amongst us.  You'll find out that, as in the case of border security, they aren't competent to achieve the goal.  In the case of the poor, they are immesurably poorer since the advent of the welfare state. 

Brought to you by the same people that run the post office and the DMV.

Shudder.

[Phsstpok]

Honorable Mention Awards Jun 24, 2007

Presented alphabetically by poster

advertising guy

• #166; "well the media on MTP sure like Bill Clinton ... because every guest just gave Hillary a political blow job ... Gwen Ifil asked for seconds............ disgusting,,,,,,,"
• #206; "MTP was flat out a free political commercial for democrats. Broder is a socialist / marxist. ... as for Fox.......as long as Chris Weenie Wallace is host ... it too sucks...BIG TIME ... Lastly, so far.......Trent Lott needs an ole fashioned ass whippin..........."
• #495; "Ya know, we all get informed here as to the sunday run of news. We break it down , have freepers who award us and absolutely understand where, why, who, and when, per issue and pol. Funny tho we always respond to the thread title SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOW THREAD followed up with the date. ... We need to re-name this thread’s title. ... For sure Feinstein , Boxer , Hillary , Reid , Pelosi and Soros eyes and typing fingers are here in lurk or handle....... BOO ....... So who makes the news and guests ? Russert , Wallace, Stephanopoulus , Schieffer , and Blitzer . Not an American Patriot in the bunch. Not a republican in the bunch. Not a conservative in the bunch. This sound like a Fairness Doctrine qualifier ? ... So for starters why not ............. .....THE SUNDAY UNFAIRNESS TALK DOCTRINE ON T.V. ... suggestions ?"

Alas Babylon!

• #24; "Well, I have always thought that the war was over and won by May of 2003. What we've faced then is a more dificult anti-terrorist campaign of counter-insurgency with a few moments of hard battle (Fallujah, Nov 2004). ... I compare what's going on now to what the Israelis have been facing for decades. Do we say they failed, or they've lost? Of course not! But the bombings and terrorism will not stop completely. Will it abait? That's what these recent campaigns and the surge are all about. ... Why the DBM can't get behind THAT goal is shamefull. For them, it's all about getting democrats elected. Power in their fellow traveller's hands is far more important than the lives of a few Iraqis and GI saps. ..." (Note: great pic in original post)
• #129; "Once again, good for your people, if they came here legally. Those that did, and then worked, toiled, and sweat are Great Americans. For those who violated the law, shameful! ... Every time someone says or implies we are anti-immigrant we need to remind them we welcome and admire immigrants but vigorously condemn the law-breaking illegals."

anita

• #4; "... Here 's this Sunday's Media Nuggets ... " (Note: as always, one of the weeks highlights)

Bernard

• #191; "'Another MSM manufactured issue is the possible Bloomberg candidacy. ' ... But, these are the same people who convinced themselves that John McCain was the presumptive runaway front-runner for the Republican nomination. Now that that balloon is leaking air loudly enough got everybody to hear it, they need another candidate they think will be acceptable." (Note: reply to kabar's post #67)

Cedric

• #262; "The GOP’s prayer: ... Dear Lord, ... Although we have been fast asleep ... Because she’s such a steaming heap ... If H-R-C’s their candidate ... We’ll win the White House in ‘08! ... Amen"

Cindy

• #283; "ARE YOU PREPARED FOR AN EMERGENCY? ... Yep, those are bold letters because I need to grab ... your attention. ... No one likes to think about unpleasant events ... happening to us. ... No one does. ... Really. ... God willing, we may never face an extreme ... emergency and that is a VERY GOOD thing. ... However... It’s up to you to plan in advance what would you in ... case you do face an emergency (natural or manmade). ... Preparation may possibly make a difference to any ... emergency you may face. ... Something to think about."

dbacks

• #156; "[I think it turned nasty during the Nixon administration and ever since, they have been trying to replicate Watergate.] ... Watergate was the media’s shining hour. A real, honest to gosh villain and they basked in the light. But, alas, not since then have they had a valid villain so they have had to manufacture them. Notice that those the MSM vilify never seem to end up as the MSM portrayed them. They never quite rise to villain stature. Sadly, in all their efforts, all they have accomplished is to reveal how shallow they really are. This has resulted in a nearly complete loss of credibility which has, for all practical purposes, ended their reign of terror."

From The Deer Stand

• #65; "Chris Wallace blew a good opportunity. Feinstein, remarking on the great accomplishments of the Democratic Congress, mentioned ethics. Wallace should have asked her about her ethical dilemma, funnelling contracts to her rich husband and his buddies. But, why put politicians on the spot?"

kvasir

• #475; "anyone notice trent lott AND diane feinstein both said that the voters against the I bill ‘don’t understand it’ ... so did gutteriez, also the consensus that the talk show hosts didn’t read it.?? does that show what they think of the voter and of themselves? sessions was the only one who said that he will read the bill to the people so they know just what is in it, the others just want it passed because they know best. i sincerely hope this doesn’t pass. also, in the NYX the small town (midland tx) where supposedly bush got his caring for the illegals is now over run just like many of the states."

MissMagnolia

• #339; "I think it will be decades before we know the truth (and we may never know it all) about to what extent the Clintons sold out this country for personal power and gain. Another 4-8 years of the Clintons is a horrifying thought."

NordP

• #179; "CNN's 'Reliable Sources' host actually asked their guest (some blonde lady with short, flat hair) why is there so much interest in Bloomberg and the different candidates at this time? She answered, 'There's a real hunger out there...' He came back at her with, 'A real hunger or a journalist hunger?' She answered with a sort of well...a journalist hunger...she admitted it! ... We were flipping channels and heard it--couldn't believe our ears...or that we were watching CNN and heard this exchange."

pablo H

• #351; “'I know you don’t want to talk about those expensive machines or how crops got picked before the invasion began but here is something you might want to consider since you have such an 'open mind'' ... Good point Rodguy. Here’s another. The total number of farm laborers in the USA is 1.2 million. 2/3 of them are Legal immigrants/citizens. We don’t need 12 million illegals to do the farm work of 400,000 people. ... And as you stated, all these jobs got done in the 80s and 90s without 12 million illegals. ... Its not about 'jobs that Americans won’t do'; its about greed and cheap labor. BTW, slaveholders in 1860 were saying the same song. They asked, 'How would the cotton get picked or the sugarcane cut without Negro Slavery?'"

rodguy911

• #54; "Brilliant post John, and thanks for bringing this one up. ... Last night I did a little surfing and came up with similar stuff all over the web and was hoping we did not get bogged down into the hopeless if not hapless immigration debate now going on for an entire week yet again. ... There are a number of rat traps set by the msm/dnc/traitors and we are knocking off every one of them thanks to brilliant leadership of the war from Petreaus on down. ... Here’s one I particularly liked as it hits the msm right where they need to be slammed in the facts and figures area. ... It’s from the “Fourth Rail” and you will find it here: ... Roggio is brilliant and is mentioned all over the web. ... <SNIP>... " (Note: great post, much more than should be quoted here, please read original post - reply to MNJohnnie's post #43)
• #152; "Exactly AB, and to ignore 95% of the world and let only a small percentage of law breakers become citizens is totally bizarre." (note: reply to Alas Babylon!'s post #129)

saveliberty

• #122; "Has he advocated round 2 of Smoot Hawley? It is a sad day when Pat Buchanan is taken as a credible voice."
• #169; "... Relative to free trade, government should get out of the way and let it happen. Any government involvement will only make it harder for trade to happen. If consumers want to boycott, that’s great. It was very effective when consumers boycotted products from France. Why create a coercive structure?"

SERKIT

• #158; "Lott: Quite the idiot today on FNS. It’s quite interesting to hear “big talk radio” criticized for NOT reading proposed bills, yet how many Congresscritters admit that they don’t read half of what they pass. Talk radio does a fairly good jib for shining the light on the ‘rats ‘n; Rinos."

tarheelswamprat

• #397; "You're in good company, Cindy: ... 'For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it.' - Patrick Henry" (Note: reply to Cindy's post #283)

TomGuy

• #35; "FNS ... Lott about those opposing the shamnesty bill: '...they are not maliciously trying to defeat it...' ... [Well, we may be bigots (Graham) and xenophobes (Snow), but at least we aren’t acting maliciously. (Lott)] ... Feinstein admits we have a ‘silent amnesty’. [Duh! Ya think? Where have you been the last 6 years, Senator Feinstein?] ... F: Does believe in the fairness doctrine. ... F: Touting the $4.4 billion [carrot dangling to the opposition] and 'no more catch and release'. [I thought Chertoff and Bush and Snow touted that catch-and-release ended early LAST YEAR.] ... [Which liar are we to believe?] ... F: Blames the low Gallup poll opinion of Congress (14% approval) on Iraq. [The Lady is clueless.] ... Lott: Blames Iraq some and immigration some and inability for bi-partisanship. ... [Wallace is jumping around with his questions/topics, so it is difficult to follow the discussion.] ... Wallace: Bloomberg candidacy indicates that the public is fed up with both parties. [LOL. Bloomberg's liberalism may work in big cities, but he won't do well in fly-over country.] ... Lott: Says Bloomberg's run is going nowhere."
• #50; "FNS ... Lott’s solution to the Cheney problem: 'Let the Courts decide.'”

[Phsstpok]

Top Ten Awards for Sunday, June 24, 2007

10th Place FreedBird

• #286; "Many of us defend on this site and talk radio to find the truth. Hillary and Boxer want to silence others who oppose their views. Lott wants to jump in bed with those Dem. Senators so they will like him. It is a foolish move."
• #448; "It must be profitable to badmouth the President. There are people who love to hear anything bad about Bush; it is music to their ears. They are conditioned to love to hate Bush; it is an addiction. The advertisements support the nonsense and if the people were not buying the products advertised during the badmouth Bush sessions, they would quit. It must be what someone wants to hear. There is a reason for the Bush bashing and it must be profit."
• #490; "But who is running the show reporters or executives? ... Someone is promoting the Bush bashing everyday day. ... Having relatives who work in business, I believe they are ... reinforced from the top what to write or say on t.v. ... It goes far beyond a reporter’s bias. The reporter is doing the Bush bashing because the owners and executives permit it. The bottom line is they are running a business which must show a profit. When people turn off their garbage, they will change their bias toward Bush and Republicans."

9th Place AliVeritas

• #165; "FYI ... U.S. forces kill Anbar’s Al Qaida commander ... U.S., Iraqi troops kill 55 insurgents in major offensive on al-Qaida ... Iraq - ‘Chemical Ali’ and two former Saddam officials sentenced to death by hanging ... 2 al-Qaida leaders captured in Iraq ... Good read: ... Big battle, small news ... Imagine it’s June 7, 1944, the day after the D-Day invasion. You pick up your newspaper. There’s no mention of Normandy on the front page, and only a brief reference to it in a roundup story on an inside page. ... Twelve die as Lebanese army raids militant hideout"
• #186; "FYI ... Yesterday’s Noisy News ... You just have to see what’s going on in Iran... and other great posts. ... A Muslim peer connects Rushdie writing a book and blowing up the WTC... you... just... have... to... read... it; ... Also, Baron should have pics out of Denmark later re: last night’s burning of Muhammad effigy (instead of the witch, ballsy); ... Shep Smith’s report on Red House (if you missed it, read the post under it first to get caught up, important): ... Iran and the Spread of Islamic Extremism ... (Great Graphic too) ... North Korea ... Fred Watch ... We find out the Brits weren’t the first Iran attempt ... Curt has a lot that you may have missed: ... The pregnant rescue by our troops; ... Six year old suicide bomber; ... WMD to Syria Part V ... Contact Your Senators This Week-End! ..."

8th Place altura

• #188; "I have no idea which Pat showed up because the Guiterez (?) guy chose the occasion to make a lengthy speech bringing in everything from what good ball players latinos are to the lawn care crisis. ... By the way, there was not one word from the so-called moderator to halt this flow. ... The man does not even have to draw breath. How does one do that? ... Do you train, like for underwater swimming? ... So, I had to turn over to Fox and then, in desperation, to TNT where they had chosen to show Matrix 9 for the tenth time in a week."
• #257; "You say Hillary will take the nomination easily. ... I’m inclined to agree ... unless: ... The far left turns even more against her, ... The corruption charges become so blatant that they can’t be ignored even by Tim, Katie, the NYT, etal. (did you see the video linked on Lucianne?) looked like a REAL episode of the Sopranos. ... or, ... The dems decide her negatives will prevent her from winning...which they probably won’t because they are all, ‘what negatives?'”
• #269; "Yes, the MSM is totally partisan and biased... the only difference is more people know it now. ... I think one of Anita’s links was to a poll on how many people trust the media... only slightly more than trust Harry Reid. ... The problem is their constant lies permeate our consciousness. Not just the news shows, but the entertainment shows slip in propaganda, some subtle, some in-your-face. ... And, even though we know better, it kinda enters our psyche. ... I’ve seen evidence of that even here on Free Republic, which is home of the wonks and of people who keep up. ... And, boy, are they scared of talk radio. I just hope that the public outrage would be too strong to let them slip in some kind of crappy fairness doctrine."
• #290; "I’m gonna have to defend Nixon here. ... You describe him as true villain. ... I’ve never seen him that way. He was a little paranoid, but he had reason to be. That didn’t mean someone wasn’t after him and he knew it. ... He went too far in attempting to counter the efforts of an unscrupulous left and he went way to far in covering up what was done. ... But Nixon’s deeds, (can you tell me what they were?) not only pale in comparison to what the Clinton’s have done, they are so pale, they disappear entirely. ... The Nixon picture in our minds is yet another example of how the media has created an image and, over time, we’ve all started to believe it. ... It’s like managing to convince us that Dan Quale was a dumb dork because of an accidental misspelling of potato. I’ve always had trouble with envelope myself! ... Nixon made mistakes but he wasn’t a bad president."

7th Place maica

• #46; "'Wallace: Bloomberg candidacy indicates that the public is fed up with both parties.' $$$$$$ Mr Wallace: Get a clue. The Bloomberg candidacy indicates that a billionaire controfreak wants to play in the White House after he leaves Gracie Mansion. ... Jeeeesh! It has nothing to do with the 'public'."
• #194; "I have ‘graduated’ from the predictablility of the trad Sunday shows to watching Reliable Sources. More unregurgitated opinions there than on the predictable shows. I also think that Wolf Blitzer gets more interesting guests than Wallace or Russert or Steffi or Sheiffer do. ... These are the only two times that I ever turn to CNN."
• #240; "Odierno vs Blitzer ... Wolf: General Odierno I want to give you a chance to clarify the remarks you made earlier this week (about knowing more in September). ... General Odierno in Iraq: 'Wolf (...remarks about knowing more in September...) that is what I meant to say, and that is what I actually did say.' ... Wolf: changed the subject."
• #427; "'What we do not know, MNJohnnie, is how much was falsified back then.' ... ##### ... There is more instant criticism of media output these days, but I am a witness to the bias in reporting all the way back to the post-WW II years. In the early days of TV, I attended meetings and then saw how the meetings were portrayed by selective camera angles, and selective choice of soundbites on the evening news, to sell to the viewers what the TV crews and producers wanted people to see and hear, not a faithful representation of the contents of the meeting or lecture."
• #452; "'There is a reason for the Bush bashing and it must be profit.' ... &&&&& ... The same people who insisted that President Reagan was a sleepy but affable dunce, have to believe that President Bush is not only a dunce, but also a crook. How else could he be living in the White House except by stealing the election from Gore! If they accept that Bush is legitimate, then they have to accept that he might be entitled to be president, and to make executive decisions. ... Their hatred is essential to their self-image. So if they, reporters, share some positive news from the President with their audiences, they feel that they have betrayed their core values. Some reporters are on record saying that reporting positive news from the DOD or State Dept or White House Press representative is considered to be spreading propaganda. I am not kidding you!" (Note: reply to FreedBird's post #448)

6th Place Mo1

• #38; "Ya gotta check out Fox and how DiFi asks Lott to stop writing notes and smiling while she is trying to spin Congress’ low approval ratings ... Seems is made her nervous"
• #48; "Now Difi says that Cheney not giving Congress documents is the height of arrogance and she is just amazed"
• #57; "'Re Cheney: Another MSM manufactured issue by the MSM. It is not a coincidence that the WP and NYT ran this story today. Sounds like coordination. And dutifully, the Sunday talk shows pick up this issue as gospel.' ... Considering how Reid mentioned it on the Senate Floor right away the morning the WP article came out .. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that this was coordinated" (Note: reply to kabar's post #52)
• #82; "Juan .. while talking about Cheney and the documents for the national archive .. says emails are disappearing in this administration ... Have they forgotten the Clinton Administration wiping out all their emails?? ... Have they forgotten Sandy Berger stealing and destroy national archive documents??"
• #135; "Kathleen says that she’s heard that Bloomberg will decide in March if he runs ... Says that if the candidates are McCain and Hellary ... then he’ll jump in because they both have high negatives"
• #161; "Oh Chrissy’s Tell me something I don’t know ... Kathleen says that AG from NC that was just indicted for cocaine and who works for Rudy’s campaign might take others down with him ... Ricahard ?? says to expect more and harder questions to Rudy about national security .. that they will hammer Rudy on exactly how he was defend our country ... Elizabeth says to expect debate on how to handle Iran and what to do with them .. should we go to war or not ... Chrisy chimes in and says does that mean war because of Cheney ... then calls Cheney, Dr. Strange Love ... David Ignas from the WP chimes is and says that Cheney is the Kissenger of this Aministration ... Then says the WP will have a series of articles coming up on Cheney .. want says exactly what they are about .. but says alot is about Cheney’s handlings"

5th Place snugs

• #126; "Trying to show how the balance is being changed even in my town with immigration whether it be temporally or permanent. ... In some ways we have bought it upon ourselves especially when you hear stories of people at work who cannot get their children who do not have many qualifications to take the lower paid jobs they would rather just knock around with their mates and collect their giro (social security money) each week. ... Therefore the Poles are encouraged to come into our town to fill these jobs whilst I have nothing against them per-say and they are prepared to work more than British youngsters they are still changing the balance especially as would will happen they will start having children and not just amongst their own community. I already know of one Pole who is living with relative of someone I work with."
• #136; "Agreed but do ordinary people take much notice I doubt in Britain many people could name more than 2 or 3 members of our own cabinet and as for the Shadow cabinet forget it."
• #331; "Of recent times the British royal family are reported to be left wing and some of their causes they pursue global warming and other ecology issues I would say confirms this. ... Therefore I would think that Tony Blair was looked upon fairly favourably as will be Gordon Brown. We all know that Maggie Thatcher and the Queen did not get on. ... One incident that is often forgotten and was the ultimate snub from Maggie was after the Falklands she took the salute from the victorious troops not the Queen in fact the Queen was not even invited to the parade. This is unheard of from a British PM as they are not the commander in Chief of any regiment. The department of defence administers them at the direction of the government but their commander in chiefs are members of the Royal family. This is of course a purely ceremonial role but nevertheless this is the protocol."
• #357; "Johnnie I am afraid many will not accept that the President could give 2 speeches a day (often he does) and the media will ignore it. They only show those that they really are pushed to show by the White House. The White House cannot insist everyone is covered but you wait if the dems take the White House in 2008 from January 2009 each speech will be covered and not just sound bites unless the sound bites make the left look good." (Note: reply to MNJohnnie' post #338)

4th Place doug from upland

• #239; "Perfect. A picture of Lott and Fineswine with him in light beige suit, pink tie, and pink socks. How fitting. ... DO NOT MISS THE OPERATIC MOCKING OF TRENT LOTT ON YOUTUBE ... If you have time, please make a comment and stick it to him."
• #402; "I was in the courtroom last year when Judge Aurelio Munoz said that he would entertain no motions to prevent Hillary from testifying. He then looked at Kendall and said, 'Did you hear that, Mr. Kendall?'”

Third Place Bahbah - invaluable highlights from the shows with some of the best on point comments about what was said... and not said

• #26; "Gutierrez says that the wife of the soldier missing in Iraq is being deported...which she isn’t. ... So far, this segment on immigration is not very useful...it’s soundbite time."
• #28; "Gutierrez wants the illegals here to pay for the baby boomer’s retirement. ... He will not allow Buchanan to talk."
• #47; "'Does that mean that I shouldn’t spray the house to get rid of wood boring insects?' ... You need to be compassionate to them. They deserve to eat too...look at how hard working they are. Maybe we can tax them."
• #53; "'Cheney not giving Congress documents is the height of arrogance and she is just amazed' ... DiFi doling out huge dollars in government contracts to her husband's company seems a tad more arrogant to me." (Note: reply to Mo1's post #48)
• #62; "Roger Simon on MTP: This bill is worse than the status quo. ... (Interesting comment...and true, imo.)"
• #68; "MTP is doing a Hillary for President ad. Ifill says people don’t care if she’s a slick politician, they want to know how they’re going to pay for health care and get their children (she says “kids” but I just hate that) in school. They play a bit of the Soprano’s video. Lots of praise for herself. She’s likable and competent says Roger Simon. ... Tim asks if Obama is still in the race? LOL. You may get rid of him, Tim, but it’s a little early for that. ... Then Tim ties Rudy to Ravenel, says Rudy didn’t show up for the Surrender Group (good move, actually). Ifill says Rudy should have been focused on his country’s security rather than politics. ... Good grief, after the Hillary campaign ad, they are trying to destroy every other candidate in the field. Broder...Rudy is mean and shady."
• #69; "John Harwood, who ostensibly works for a newspaper, has no idea where Fred Thompson stands on anything. ... Broder says Thompson starts projects but doesn’t finish them. ... How much is Hillary paying these people. ... Other than Obama, there has been no mention so far of the other dem candidates. They might as well not exist."
• #72; "'The MSM has to maintain the fiction that there are some other serious challlengers' ... And they have chosen Mike Bloomberg????" (Note: reply to kabar's post #70)
• #75; "Unless you are Hillary Clinton, this is the most useless panel discussion ever on MTP...and that’s saying lots."
• #100; "Lott thinks that the mistake with the immigration bill was that they didn’t explain it well enough and let radio define it. He was part of the cabal to get it through in 4 days without letting anyone know what was in the bill. ... The more Lott tries to explain himself, the worse it gets. ... Okay, Trent, if there are 4 good things in the bill, enact those and forget the rest."
• #119; "DiFi thinks the opinion of Congress is sinking because people just don’t understand things. You are just too dumb to figure out these hard things."
• #147; "LOL. DiFi and Vacant Lott talk for 15 minutes about how and why they can’t get anything done and then criticize the Iraqis for not meeting the benchmarks."
• #168; "Bill Kristol: 'Why are we even talking about Michael Bloomberg? Because he’s rich.' ... We need to fix our campaign finance laws...Kristol is right about that."
• #211; "Kennedy says we have to pass this, we can fix it later."
• #217; "Kennedy reminds us that they managed to defeat the US in Viet Nam and in the Contra affair and we’re going to manage to do it in Iraq. (Not exactly the way he put it, but that’s realy what it is.)"
• #255; "The Steffie panel asks if Hillary has an electability problem and George Will says against the Republican field, anyone is electable. Huh?"

Second Place kabar - insight on several topics that focused a lot of the discussions where they needed to go, plus excellent commentary

• #29; "There is no doubt that the enemy understands that any chance of victory rests with American public opinion. They have no possibility of a military victory. Setting unrealistic expectations and false metrics [number of bombings, US casualties, etc.] are just tricks used by the MSM to influence US support for the war in Iraq, the “war of choice.” The Administation has done a poor job of fighting the media war."
• #39; "The US will add 62 million people [the equivalent of the current population of the UK] in the next 23 years. The US has one of the highest rates of population growth in the developed world. We have added 54 million since 1990, three quarters of which are attributed to immigration, legal and illegal."
• #52; "Re Cheney: Another MSM manufactured issue by the MSM. It is not a coincidence that the WP and NYT ran this story today. Sounds like coordination. And dutifully, the Sunday talk shows pick up this issue as gospel."
• #55; "I wish Wallace would have raised (DiFi's ethics problems) with Feinstein when she mentioned the new ethics legislation the Dem Congress is preparing. But that won’t happen. The fact that we have Lott and Feinstein as supposed opposites is part of the sham that there are major differences between the leadership of both parties." (Note: reply to Bahbah's post #53)
• #64; "And Dowd’s column in the NYT today is titled 'A Vice President Without Borders, Bordering on Lunacy.'” (Note: part of ongoing discussion of MSM coordinated attack on VP Cheney with Mo1 and others)
• #67; "Another MSM manufactured issue is the possible Bloomberg candidacy. It is ridiculous that anyone can take him seriously. He would be lucky to get 1% of the vote. Why waste your time on it? Fox is going downhill fast with today’s show."
• #70; "Hillary is going to take the Dem nomination easily. The MSM has to maintain the fiction that there are some other serious challengers to justify continuing media coverage, which exceeds that given to the real competitive race for the GOP nominee."
• #139; "The UK is part of the EU and a signatory to Maastricht. The free movement of labor is part of the EU bargain. In the US, there are over 36 million foreign born residents or one in every 8 persons in this country. And in the next few years that ratio will change to one in every 7. What is happening in the UK bears no comparison to what is happening here in terms of scope and magnitude."
• #154; "Here we go again. The black unemploment rate in this country is 8.5% and Hispanic 5.8%. Importing millions of high school dropouts who don’t speak English is not the solution to our labor problem. People are not units of labor. They can’t be disposed of if they are no longer needed. We are sowing the seeds of our own destruction in the name of the bottom line. Business should not be setting our immigration [legal and illegal] policies."
• #416; "What ever happened to national allegiance? ... 'Human Events Magazine has reported that the top 100 American corporations were nearly unanimous in rejecting the suggestion, made by Ralph Nader, that they "establish a regular practice, at every annual shareholders meeting, of reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag." Only one of the 100 corporations actually accepted the suggestion — Ohio-based Federated Department Stores Incorporated.'"

First Place MNJohnnie - excellent posts that extended the discussions and pointed to outside information that added needed insight and information  plus very good extended discussions on several topics

• #6; "Interesting news from behind the headlines in Iraq. Hat tip to Stonewall for bringing this to my attention. ... We Won? ... StategyPage.com ^ | 06-23-07 ... June 20, 2007: After weeks of maneuvering in and around Baghdad, U.S. and Iraqi forces have isolated and cornered large numbers of terrorists in Diyala province (northeast of Baghdad), and especially in the provincial capital, Baqouba. This is a major operation, with 9,000 Americans and a thousand Iraqi troops (and police) involved. In addition, there are several hundred local irregulars, who have switched sides. This is a big change in the Baghdad suburbs. While tribal leaders and warlords in the west (Anbar province) have been turning on terrorist groups, especially al Qaeda, for several years, the gangs of Baghdad were more resistant to changing sides. That’s because Baghdad is the home of Saddam’s staunchest supporters. These guys are prime candidates for war crimes prosecutions, for the many atrocities committed by Saddams’ secret police over the decades. While the government has been willing to offer amnesty to many lower ranking Baath party members, the Baghdad neighborhoods and suburbs are full of people considered too dirty to qualify. This is the no-surrender crowd. But let’s face it, these guys are also all over the lists Shia death squads carry. Iran has even offered cash rewards for the deaths of many Saddam lieutenants who were involved in the 1980s Iran-Iraq war, or subsequent murders of Shia clergy. The Kurds have their death lists as well. These are desperate and dangerous people. ... <SNIP>... "
• #43; "More info on Iraq. This guy is reliable. Him and Yon are the two Ernie Pyles of this war. ... One week of Operation Phantom Thunder - an update ... An update on the Battle of Iraq ... Operation Phantom Thunder, the corps coordinated operation across three theaters in the Baghdad Belts, has completed it seventh day. Lieutenant General Raymond Odierno, the ground forces commander, briefed on the operation. To date, Coalition and Iraqi forces have killed 159 al Qaeda and insurgents, wounded 41, and detained 721 suspects. Coalition and Iraqi forces found and destroyed 304 roadside bombs, seven car bombs and 128 weapons caches. ... <SNIP>..." (Note: original article from Bill Roggio's blog)
• #181; "Another guy whose word on Iraq is good. ... Surrender or Die ... On the scene of Arrowhead Ripper. ... By Michael Yon ... First a quick media round-up. (This is not all inclusive.) ... <SNIP>... " (note: great article, too long to copy)
• #187; "And one last one. Another bit of “News” that will never make the Sunday shows. Amazing isn’t it? The offensive has been going about a week and all ready every single Democrat, along with their tame moutpieces at the Wash Post and NY Times, is all ready calling it a failure. Guess we need not bother them with the facts since they have all ready made up their minds. ... Be Not Afraid ... By Michael Yon ... You shall cross the barren desert, but you shall not die of thirst. You shall wander far in safety though you do not know the way. You shall speak your words in foreign lands and all will understand. You shall see the face of God and live. ... Be not afraid. ... I go before you always; ... Come follow me, and I will give you rest. ... [From a prayer card I found on a base in Anbar Province, Iraq.] ... <SNIP> ..." (note: another great Michael post, but also too long to copy)
• #210; "Us Casualties? ... Let see in 4.5 years of war we have taken 3500 or so casualties. By any sane standard of military measurement, an overwhelming, unbelievable victory. This from the SAME media that was telling us we would take thousands of casualties in Baghdad alone in April 2003? ... Let strip the PR posturing and demagogic fraud away here. What the Neo Isolationists on the Right, and the Appeasement Now Crowd on the Left, want is to be allowed to redefine victory when ever they feel like it. ... The job of the Right side of the Media should be to fight the leftist noise machine, not sit on their butts whining day in and day out 'why didn't Bush do this, Why didn't Bush do that'. ... President Bush is ONE guy. Pretty tough for any President to get his message out when everyone who SHOULD be his echo chamber spend all their time just echoing his political foes propaganda."
• #220; "###### UNREPORTED Poll-Result about MSM -> Just 23% have confidence in TV News & 22% have confidence in newspapers. That is, 78% of people DON'T believe the Media. Quite an accomplishment (!).***Well... at least the have a slightly higher approval ratings then Congress *L* ... Funny, that is significantly lower their either the President's or the VP's approval rating" (Note: Reply to anita's post #4, the Media Nuggets)
• #243; "Yep you are dead on about the difference in the news media of today and the Reagan era. Even Rush notice in 2000 and made mention of how the news media has given up any appearance of objectivity. ... When you have Tim Russert, and other Journalists meeting with Kerry senior campaign staff to coordinate coverage. You have CBS Producers coaching Kerry thru multiple takes to get a good sound bite for the evening new, and Rathergate, you NO longer have an “objective” media. ... Way past time Conservatives quit taking their political foes propaganda seriously. ... <SNIP> ... "
• #338; "... President gives several speeches every week. HOW much coverage have you ever heard in the 'News' about any of them? ... <SNIP> ... Just how does the President's 'bully Pulpit work?' ... That right, the "Journalists" have to cover what he is saying. His ONLY conduit to the people is thru a obviously politically corrupt 'News media' machine. ... So what have the 'Journalists' done with Bush? ... Well for the most part they simply do NOT cover anything the President says. When they DO cover it they don't publish the actually statements they restate the speech and focus in on 1 or 2 sentences or maybe a 15 to 30 second clip. Then, instead of allowing the Presidents words to stand, they immediately give MORE coverage to anyone who is critical of the President speech. After about 12 hours or so, the Critics are the ones getting all the coverage. ... So, Conservatives knew this was a hostile environment so they developed their own Alternative media mainly via Talk Radio. ... <SNIP> ... "

[snugs]

Thanks for your hard work on presenting the awards Phsstpok and congratulations to the winners.