Posted on 07/19/2005 1:03:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
It's Saturday evening, the end of a hot day, and a group of women and children have gathered at North Seattle's Meadowbrook Pool for their monthly swim.
Most of the pool staff has left, except for two female lifeguards, who on this day will be on duty for the next two hours.
The women and children — all Muslims — have been swimming in private once a month at Meadowbrook as part of a program organized by the North Seattle Family Center.
Because Islam requires Muslim women to fully cover themselves in public, swimming in pools or the ocean is largely off-limits for many.
But across the Puget Sound area, that's starting to change as public and private pools at times are sending home their male staff members, covering up their windows and allowing women of faith to swim alone and in private...
Access to these pools is not free; the groups, like all others that use these facilities, pay a rental fee....
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
"I suggest you don't diss a friend of mine without actually knowing the person or their family."
Chill out tiger. Save all that pent up testosterone for the real enemy.
"That said, I guess you wouldn't approve of her younger brother serving in the U.S. Army in Afghanistan."
Bravo to him. At least he walks his talk.
Um...maybe because swimming with only women and small children, wearing more than a regular bathing suit isn't ILLEGAL? Whereas, child pornography and bestiality are?
How's that for common sense?
" Um...maybe because swimming with only women and small children, wearing more than a regular bathing suit isn't ILLEGAL? "
Um...maybe because polygamy(inbreeding) is illegal in most states except Utah and Arizona(it shoud be illegal) and enabling oppressive polygamist male muslim ruled households shouldn't be tolerated in America either. Now keep talkin about common sense.
I didn't personally insult anyone, did I? But when entire posts are ignored and you get an insult instead of conversation, I think it says the person CAN'T argue and must take a cheap shot instead.
He may or may not be a Muslim, friend, relative or neighbor of one- New Jersey does have a high concentration of death-cult members, I've heard; and I know most -if not all- of the 9-11 cowards were connected to N.J. in some way.
Not to paint all from N.J as Muslims or supporters of them, just an interesting observation.
No- he's probably a regular American guy who just won't recognize what his Pollyanna trust will cost his family and his country until it's too late. That's what's tragic about all of these well-meaning, 'be better than they are' types.
The choice Islam will give you is ' better and dead' or 'regretful but alive.'
They scream it on TV, in every bomb blast and in the lack of ACTION to counter terrorism.
But the screams, for some, are translated from ' Death to America, Allah Ackbar!" to-" We're just like you, just misunderstood. You're making us do this."
My apologies. I have my Freepers confused.
His profile says he's from Colorado, not N.J.
And just think--they had no surgical implants in those days!
Naturally voluptuous!!
I have no problem with Muslim women wanting to swim while observing purdah, the problem is that they see us as accepting purdah and altering our conduct to accomodate them by accepting it. That is a ste=ategic victory for purdah.
Let them swim during regular hours with no accomodation and still wear what they want. Then we will se how long
purdah survives in AMerica. Not long.
They way you advocate, purdah is enabled and enforced, which supports the social process of purdah, sharia,
and jihad as well in the USA. It is this overall social process which is unacceptable because it translates " peaceful Muslims" into " terrorist Muslims". Todays "peaceful Muslim" is tomorrows " Terrorist Muslim"
because of the social process. What you want to support is the survival of the social process when in fact it needs to be stopped.
No accomodation of purdah can stop the social process whereby disaffected Muslims turn on their host society. Disaffected Muslims need to use the political process to get what they want. In doing so they become Americans.
You advocate a bleeding heart accomodation, when in fact the Muslims who want special swimming arrangements need to bring the issue before Boards of Selectmen or City Copunsels to ask for such accomodations. If they do get them all to the good. If they do not, then they will have educated themselves that in a democracy one does not always get what one wants. The majority rules.
I am all for the AMericanization of Muslims, you are not, or you are severely disallusioned in thinking that accomodating purdah will lead to its end.
Oh, for heaven's sake.
I guess we'll just have to leave it there, then. It's too late at night for a flame war. :)
Right. Women in a swimming pool. So what's that got to do with "treating them like human beings?"
In the US, as compared to most Muslim countries, people do get treated like human beings. But if their definition of that includes public pools set aside for same sex Burka swimming with the windows taped up, they should consider returning to whence they came, where the water is more hospitable.
Pardon... me... while... I... try... to... connect... the... dots.
The thread was about Muslim women swimming. After some bickering about private use/public access, sexual discrimination, oppression of Muslim women, and sharia law it sort of landed on what's appropriate swimwear. (Did I leave something important out?)
Now it's about Muslim polygamy, Mormon polygamy and pedophilia? Muslim women renting a swimming pool is about all that?
Honestly, I don't think that your reasoning process is very linear - not that there's anything wrong with that.
"Now it's about Muslim polygamy, Mormon polygamy and pedophilia? Muslim women renting a swimming pool is about all that?"
It's all about the big picture. The big picture of female muslim oppression, females not being allowed to choose for themselves, period.
"Honestly, I don't think that your reasoning process is very linear - not that there's anything wrong with that."
490 posted on 07/22/2005 2:33:57 AM CDT by delacoert
Honestly delacoert, I don't think your reasoning is ever going to be clear and rational when you refuse yourself proper sleep and rest. You posted all day yesterday and now your latest response was posted at 2 a.m. !!!
Honey, don't let this thread cause you any more sleep loss.
Tell that to the tennis coach.
Bravo Candor7 - Burkas are evil. Period. All that talk about layers of loose clothing being protective in the summer is theoretical cultural snobbery and doesn't work in high humidity non arid areas. Given the choice - there isn't one sentient soul who would choose in 80% humidity to wear layers of sheeting while spending more than a few minutes outside doing chores, errands or pursuing any activity that requires any effort whatsoever.
Uh huh. Perhaps you ought to consider the "how" of your expressed desire. Are you going to impose some sort of religious test on people who rent out the pool? Sheesh.
And don't forget that improper Muslim swimwear leads to bombings. That's the "big picture" part of this you're missing.
If they want to rent the pool, they can do what they want. I pity these women for how they must live.
***Mine:I am all for the AMericanization of Muslims, you are not, or you are severely disallusioned in thinking that accomodating purdah will lead to its end.
****Yours:
Uh huh. Perhaps you ought to consider the "how" of your expressed desire. Are you going to impose some sort of religious test on people who rent out the pool? Sheesh.
I believe that every city coucil and public use area should refuse the civic accomodation of any purdah or sharia conduct unless approved by a committee or board of selectmen, the same way people have to apply for a parade permit.
Thats your real "Sheesh"kabob. Not the "sheesh" you mistakenly prefer. Its the way our democracy works.
Accomodating purdah sends out entirely the wrong message and prevents the Americanization of Muslim immigrants. It only soldifies and separates the subculture and "peaceful Muslims " continue to be easily converted to "terrorist Muslims" through that continued subculture.
And what of the First Amendment? If you go back and read your history, you'll find that the British did very much the same thing to people like the Puritans and Quakers. This is precisely the sort of thing that the Founders had in mind when they wrote the Establishment clause.
Are you saying that the Constitution shouldn't apply to these women as well?
We can certainly agree on the bad points of the clothing and other restrictions placed on these women. But it is not illegal, nor should it be.
The best way to solve the problem is not through force (which rarely, if ever works), but instead by holding out an alternative to their current status. Give them a choice between their current status, and a better, freer one. It takes longer, but the lesson is retained much better.
"Accomodating purdah sends out entirely the wrong message and prevents the Americanization of Muslim immigrants."
It basically prevents the assimiliation for them into ANY "civilized" COUNTRY ON EARTH OTHER THAN THE MIDDLE EAST where female oppression reigns supreme. They will never try or even care to meet other cultures, nations half way. So frankly why should other cultures bend over backwards for their cult of mysogyny.
"the bad points of the clothing and other restrictions placed on these women. But it is not illegal, nor should it be."
First you contradict yourself in the same paragraph by admitting the clothing and situations are "bad" and "restrictive" but say it shouldn't be illegal. It should be since IT IS A DRESS CODE created and ENFORCED BY THEIR MALE MYSOGYNYS male muslim MASTERS WHO PUNISH THOSE females who DON'T OBEY THE (male) rules.
"The best way to solve the problem is not through force (which rarely, if ever works), but instead by holding out an alternative to their current status."
I agree with you on this point.
"Give them a choice between their current status, and a better, freer one. It takes longer, but the lesson is retained much better."
True but trying to "white wash" the root of the prevelant misogyny rampant in muslimhood with a dip in a swimming pool hardly lessens female oppression. So no lessons are learned just old misogynistic rules further enabled.
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