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Jesus died of blood clot - Israeli researcher
Yahoo - Reuters ^ | June 8, 2005

Posted on 06/08/2005 4:41:38 AM PDT by echoBoomer

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli researcher has challenged the popular belief that Jesus died of blood loss on the cross, saying he probably succumbed to a sometimes fatal disorder now associated with long-haul air travel.

Professor Benjamin Brenner wrote in The Journal of Thrombosis and Haemostasis that Jesus's death, traditionally believed to have occurred 3-6 hours after crucifixion began, was probably caused by a blood clot that reached his lungs.

Such pulmonary embolisms, leading to sudden death, can stem from immobilisation, multiple trauma and dehydration, said Brenner, a researcher at Rambam Medical Center in Haifa.

"This fits well with Jesus's condition and actually was in all likelihood the major cause of death by crucifixion," he wrote in the article, based on religious and medical texts.

A 1986 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association mentioned the possibility that Jesus suffered a blood clot but concluded that he died of blood loss.

But Brenner said research into blood coagulation had made significant strides over the past two decades.

He said recent medical research has linked immobility among passengers on lengthy air flights to deep vein thrombosis, popularly known as "economy-class syndrome" in which potentially fatal blood clots can develop, usually in the lower legs.

Brenner noted that before crucifixion, Jesus underwent scourging, but the researcher concluded that "the amount of blood loss by itself" would not have killed him.

He said that Jesus, as a Jew from what is now northern Israel, may have been particular at risk to a fatal blood clot.

Thrombophilia, a rare condition in which blood has an increased tendency to clot, is common to natives of the Galilee, the researcher wrote.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; blood; crucifix; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; israel; jerusalem; jesus; kookthread; postedtowrongforum
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To: echoBoomer

Unspeakable blasphemy. My research shows that the Temple never existed, so there can't be a third temple, and the Jews (btw) were never given Israel, they just made it up.

He could have made a general statement about crucifixion in general, instead he has to make it about the Christ in particular.


81 posted on 06/08/2005 8:15:15 AM PDT by johnb838 (In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.)
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To: MosesKnows
Must be inventing challenges to sell to the HitlerHistory Channel.
82 posted on 06/08/2005 8:17:45 AM PDT by johnb838 (In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.)
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To: Petronski
I know, and I'm just commenting on what I think is a bizarre statement by a different poster.

My feeling is this;
If there is no God, it doesn't matter, and if there is, what could possibly matter more?

Same with Christ.

83 posted on 06/08/2005 8:19:46 AM PDT by Protagoras (I’ve had all I can stands and I can’t stands no more.....Popeye)
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To: Petronski

I don't really like it when Christians argue about the scripture. It just doesn't seem right. Everyone has their own interpretation. Thank G-d for His Grace, which makes up for our shortcomings. Thank G-d I for His mercy, that we don't have to been 100% right on the scripture, He loves us anyway.


84 posted on 06/08/2005 8:20:15 AM PDT by brwnsuga (Proud, Black, Conservative!)
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To: brwnsuga

I agree with you completely. I get very annoyed with those who rhetorically get up in my face and tell me my faith is wrong because it doesn't match their own personal interpretation of scripture.


85 posted on 06/08/2005 8:21:53 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: wideawake
Ah, yes, a painless thromobosis - therefore less of the expiatory suffering than those stupid Christians always assumed.

Actually, it is a very painful way to die. Feels like a heart attack. David Bloom cried out in pain before he died of the same condition in Iraq, according to the soldiers with him.

86 posted on 06/08/2005 8:22:37 AM PDT by montag813
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To: tucker93
Jesus would not have had a genetic predisposition to any genetic condition. He was a native of Galilee only by geography and not by genetic inheritance.

He had Mary's nose, but God's chin?

87 posted on 06/08/2005 8:24:18 AM PDT by montag813
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To: montag813

I stand corrected.


88 posted on 06/08/2005 8:25:43 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: SittinYonder

Thank you, Jesus, for shedding your life's blood to wash away my sins.


89 posted on 06/08/2005 8:28:29 AM PDT by trillabodilla (Pray for President Bush!)
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To: rwfromkansas
I believe that the Foreknowledge of God and the Freewill
of man is something we won't understand this side
of Heaven. It falls into the Deuteronomy 29:29
category.

"Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret thing belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

Have a nice eternity

90 posted on 06/08/2005 8:32:14 AM PDT by WKB (A closed mind is a good thing to lose.)
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To: Petronski

I get very annoyed with those who rhetorically get up in my face and tell me my faith is wrong because it doesn't match their own personal interpretation of scripture.




Indeed.


91 posted on 06/08/2005 8:34:16 AM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: WKB


LOL! You tell 'em.


92 posted on 06/08/2005 8:35:10 AM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx; cyborg

I KNOW you know what I mean! ;O)


93 posted on 06/08/2005 8:35:15 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: WKB; onyx; cyborg

Have a nice eternity!




*lol*
94 posted on 06/08/2005 8:37:06 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: Petronski


Course I do. You aren't the Lone Ranger in this stuff.


95 posted on 06/08/2005 8:38:02 AM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx
You aren't the Lone Ranger...

Good thing, 'cuz Silver's back ain't strong enough!

96 posted on 06/08/2005 8:39:36 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: Petronski; WKB

WKB is one sharp guy. "Have a nice eternity" --- FOTFLOL.

JP, keep that graphic handy. We can drag it it out several times before it loses its humor. I am literally doubled over laughing.


97 posted on 06/08/2005 8:40:31 AM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: brwnsuga

And, God is a failure if a person did not choose him....IF you believe Jesus died for all people.

For, if Jesus died for all people, but his death did not save some of those people, his death failed to accomplish its purpose.

Now, there would be no problem at all with this, and God would not be a failure, if Scripture indicates God sometimes fails to accomplish his will.

But, it doesn't. God always accomplishes his will.

Isaiah 45:6-7:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Lamentations 3:37:

Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

Gens 50:20 (God brings bad things to pass to make good from them):

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Isaiah 46:9-11 (simply, God's will ALWAYS gets done):

9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10: Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Eph 1:11:

11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Proverbs 16:33 (God is sovereign even over the casting of lots):

The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Matthew 10:29 (and birds):

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.


Proverbs 16:9

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.



Job 42:2:

"I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."

---

Frankly, if God wanted all people to be saved, they would all be coming to Christ. But, that hasn't happened. Many reject him daily. There has to be a reason why, and it is not because some choose of their own free will and some don't. Those who reject him do freely reject him, just as those who accept him freely do it as well, but everything still falls within God's overall will.

His purposes can't be thwarted. If he wants all saved, he will get the job done, but obviously he DOESN'T want this since Revelation shows at the end of time, many will not be saved. Since that is the case, God would have had his will thwarted if he intended for all to be saved at the end of time. But, Scripture says his will can't be thwarted.

So, he did not intend for all to be saved.

"In the covenant of grace, the Father chose a people, Christ promised to die for them, and the Spirit pledged Himself to apply salvation to their hearts. In Isaiah 53:10-12 it says: "But the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; by His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors."

Christ foresaw the suffering and agony that He would have to endure, and yet, He was content with it, for He realized that by His death, everyone for whom He died would be redeemed from sin. Now if Christ died for all men, and some for whom He died ended up going to hell anyway, then Christ could not have foreseen the suffering and agony of His soul and been satisfied. He would have been disappointed because His efforts would not have been sufficient to save everyone for whom He died. Therefore, the atonement Christ made for the sins of His people was limited in purpose; not in its value, but in its purpose, for it was designed for the elect of God."


"In John 17 is the prayer of intercession made by the Lord Jesus. In verse 2 He prayed, "Even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life." Note that eternal life was not for all men, but those that were given to Him by the Father. In verse 9 He continues: "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;". It would not be reasonable that Christ would limit His prayers to those given to Him by the Father, and at the same time die for all men, knowing very well that many would not be saved. He prayed for those for whom He died, and He died for those given Him by the Father. His purpose then was not to save the entire human race, for if that had been His purpose He would have accomplished it. Christ is the Almighty and accomplishes everything He intends to do. It was His purpose to save only the elect of God, and His purpose was fulfilled."

"Christ died for His sheep, and because of this none can be lost. In John 10:10-11 He said, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." And in verse 28 He continues: "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." (Notice that He does not offer them eternal life.) Jesus died for the sheep, and He gives eternal life to everyone for whom He died. Christ did not come to attempt to save men; He came to redeem His people. He purged their sins and then sat down on the right hand of His Father. (Hebrews 10:12)"

Spurgeon here makes a great point about the idea that Jesus died for all people, the universal atonement. He says if that were true, Christ died for people who were already in hell, which obviously is not the case:

"Now, some people love the doctrine of 'universal atonement' because they say it is so beautiful. It is a lovely idea that 'Christ should have died for all men'; it commends itself, they say, to the instincts of humanity; there is something in it full of joy and beauty.

"I admit there is; but beauty may be often associated with falsehood.

"There is much which I might well admire in the theory of 'universal redemption' but let me just tell you what this supposition necessarily involves. If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were damned before He died; because if this doctrine (that He died for all men) is true, He died for some that were in hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were myriads there that had been cast away.

"Once again, if it were Christ's intention to save all men, how deplorably has He been disappointed! For we have His own evidence that there is a lake that burns with fire and brimstone, and into that pit must be cast some of the very people, who according to that theory, were bought with His blood!

"To think that my Savior died for men in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to imagine. That He was the substitute for the sons of men, and that God having first punished the substitute, punished these same men again, seems to me to conflict with any idea of justice.

"That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction for the sins of all men, and that afterwards, some of those very men should be punished for the same sins which Christ had already atoned for, seems to me, to be the most marvelous monstrosity that ever could have been imputed to Saturn, to Janus, aye, to the god of the Thugs, or the most diabolical heathen demons!

"God forbid that we should ever think thus of Jehovah, the just and wise."

In summation (ROMANS 9):

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


98 posted on 06/08/2005 8:41:06 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: onyx

"...loses its humor."


NEVER!




:OP


99 posted on 06/08/2005 8:41:28 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: WKB

Bingo.


100 posted on 06/08/2005 8:41:46 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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