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Hunley Hoopla Ignores the other side of the story
The State (Columbia, SC) ^ | 11 April 2004 | John Monk

Posted on 04/14/2004 9:56:42 AM PDT by Rebeleye

Nowhere will it be mentioned that if the eight-man Hunley crew had been on the victorious...4 million black people would have continued to be slaves.

(Excerpt) Read more at thestate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: confederate; dixielist; hunley; southcarolina; submarine
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This week’s six-day funeral of the crew of the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley will be a celebration of a thin slice of history — a brief, trailblazing underwater mission that resulted in the sinking of a Union ship.

But the pageantry surrounding the Hunley also will be a denial of other histories, a sanitizing of one of the most controversial American eras, some historians say.

Nowhere will it be mentioned that if the eight-man Hunley crew had been on the victorious side of the Civil War, 4 million black people would have continued to be slaves, the historians point out.

Nowhere will it be mentioned that, at the time of the Hunley’s mission, South Carolina’s 291,000 whites were forcing 400,000 black slaves to work without pay and with scant hope of freedom.

“The war was fought to perpetuate slavery,” said William Hine, history professor at South Carolina State University. He was one of about 75 S.C. professors who signed a public statement in 2000 saying the historical record “clearly shows” that the South’s wanting to preserve slavery was the fundamental cause of the Civil War.

“The whole Southern way of life was wrapped around slavery, and even though many white Southerners did not own slaves, it was still essential for their way of life,” Hine said. “People fought for that way of life even though they were not slave owners.”

Hunley Commission member John Courson, a Republican state senator from Columbia, said his commission really hasn’t discussed issues like secession or slavery. “The Hunley is such a unique story in itself, and it has a life of its own.”

That story involves the submariners’ courage; the new technology that enabled the Hunley to become the first submarine to sink a ship; and a tragic love story between its lost commander, Lt. George Dixon, and his intended, Queenie Bennett, Courson said. “All of that transcends anything else associated with the War Between the States.”

‘THE BRIAR PATCH’

Not dealing with the broader political and social context of history is nothing new when it comes to today’s slimmed-down modern treatments of long-ago events, some historians say.

“This happens all the time,” said historian Dan Carter of the University of South Carolina.

One of the best television documentaries ever was Ken Burns’ series on the Civil War, Carter said.

“It’s a heart-tugging film,” he said. “But you come away from that series with a very limited understanding of the broader context of the Civil War.

“By not looking at that context, you avoid having to take sides,” Carter said. “If you write about the heroism of the Southern soldiers — and my grandfather was one — nobody objects to that. But if you write about why they fought, then you are in the briar patch. Because the truth of the matter is — although the soldiers fought for many reasons — the cornerstone of the Confederacy rested upon slavery.”

Carter said if a Hunley museum is ever built — and a $40 million facility is planned — it will offer an opportunity to teach people about issues like slavery.

Museums have become an important tool for the public to learn about the past, he said. “We’ve had this explosion of interest in museums. More and more, Americans gather their ideas of history, not from dull history classes, but from historical museums.”

Hunley Commission member Randy Burbage said that when a museum is built years from now, officials hope to present the Hunley in the context of naval ships and technology in that era.

“It’s a maritime and naval story, not just involving that night,” he said. “That is one of the unique things of the War Between the States — how technology evolved from the archaic smooth-bore weapons into more modern warfare, including submarines.”

Asked whether slavery should be part of the Hunley’s context, he said, “I don’t have any comment on that right now.”

On the Hunley’s Internet site, the section about history includes no mention of slavery in a brief discussion of the Civil War.

The history section begins, “The Civil War-era was one of industrious innovation, fascination and sweeping cultural change. Not only would the country forever be changed, but warfare would be drastically transformed by the events that unfolded during this armed conflict of brother against brother.”

‘GIVE US SLAVERY OR GIVE US DEATH’

Most authoritative history books these days, such as Walter Edgar’s “South Carolina: A History,” leave little doubt slavery was a main cause of the Civil War.

In South Carolina, historians say, nearly all whites deeply believed the proper function of a black person was to be a slave.

In 1835, S.C. Gov. George McDuffie said “slavery bears the marks of divine approval” and urged execution of anyone urging freedom for slaves. McDuffie’s views were typical of Southern whites of his time. Another South Carolinian, Edward Bryan of what is now Colleton County, put it this way: “Give us slavery or give us death.”

In 1858, one of history’s most famous pro-slavery speeches was given by a South Carolinian, U.S. Sen. James Hammond.

Hammond told fellow senators that it is a law of nature that every society needs a “mud-sill” class to do “menial work, to perform the drudgery of life. This is a class requiring but a low order of intelligence and but little skill. ... ... Fortunately, for the South, she found a race adapted to that purpose. ... We use them for our purpose, and call them slaves.”

Slavery was big business in South Carolina and made riches for slave owners. (More than 40 percent of white S.C. families owned slaves, according to Edgar.)

And 30 years after the Civil War ended, some S.C. whites were yearning to have their slaves back, saying without slaves, white men could not be truly free.

In 1895, at the S.C. Constitutional Convention, delegate George Tillman, a former Edgefield County slave trader and congressman, said: “We (whites) are not a free people. We have not been free since the (Civil) War. ... If we were free, instead of having Negro suffrage, we would have Negro slavery. Instead of having the United States government, we would have the Confederate States government.”

ONE SMALL ENCOUNTER

In the military context of the Civil War, the Hunley’s attack was one small encounter among thousands of skirmishes and battles over four years.

The Hunley’s exploit was Feb. 17, 1864, and did not affect the war’s outcome. Although the Hunley sank a Union ship, a federal blockade continued to cut off Charleston.

At that time, 14 months before the war’s end, there was a lull in the fighting.

The summer before, Gen. Robert E. Lee had failed at Gettysburg in his daring gambit to force the North to yield by invading the Pennsylvania countryside.

Three months after the Hunley’s attack, a huge Union Army under Gen. Ulysses S. Grant started to fight through Virginia to Richmond. The Army would claim victory at Appomattox in April 1865.

Meanwhile, as 1864 wore on, Confederate armies were losing in the west as Union Gen. William T. Sherman rampaged through the South.

In that context, the Hunley’s victory was militarily insignificant.

The most modern comprehensive history of South Carolina, by Edgar, makes only a one-sentence passing reference to the Hunley and doesn’t even include it in its giant index.

However, Edgar does mention another Civil War exploit in Charleston Harbor — the daring 1862 hijacking of a Confederate ship by slave Robert Smalls. Taking a cargo of ammunition and escaping slaves, Smalls posed as a Confederate officer and brought his boat through Confederate lines to the Union blockade.

‘THE WORLD’S FIRST SUBMARINE’

Still, the Hunley has military significance.

In his “The Civil War: A Narrative,” a widely admired trilogy, Shelby Foote devotes three detail-filled pages to the Hunley.

“She was, in short, the world’s first submarine,” Foote writes.

An intriguing historical question is whether the Hunley was built, at least in part, by slaves.

No one knows for sure. But S.C. State historian Hine is willing to speculate.

“Much of the labor in the South was done by slaves, and I would be at least more than mildly surprised if slave labor was not involved either in its direct construction or in the materials that went into the construction,” Hine said.

1 posted on 04/14/2004 9:56:43 AM PDT by Rebeleye
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To: Rebeleye
Political correctness rears its ugly head once again
2 posted on 04/14/2004 9:59:11 AM PDT by Rebeleye
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To: Rebeleye
The war was fought to preserve the rights of the various states according to most Southern veterans and the war was fought to preserve the Union according to most Northern veterans. For politically correct historians to reduce the conflict to the slavery issue alone is absurd.

As for belittling the Hunley's crew and their accomplishment it can only be reiterated that "The world is a conspiracy against the brave".
3 posted on 04/14/2004 10:08:24 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (France kicked Germany's teeth out at Verdun among other places.)
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To: Rebeleye
I see they conveniently left out the fact that many blacks in South Carolina were also slaveholders. With respect to the Hunley, there are a bunch of PC writers that are going to show their butts.
4 posted on 04/14/2004 10:20:11 AM PDT by vetvetdoug (Vampire bats are little Democrats looking to suck your blood and give you diseases.)
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To: Rebeleye
I'm not great on history but I ran across the following CMH winner and I knew nothing of this battle previously: AHEAM, MICHAEL Rank and organization: Paymaster's Steward, U.S. Navy. Enlisted in: France. G.O. No.: 45, 31 December 1864. Citation: Served on board the U.S.S. Kearsarge when she destroyed the Alabama off Cherbourg, France, 19 June 1864. Carrying out his duties courageously, PmS. Aheam exhibited marked coolness and good conduct and was highly recommended by his divisional officer for gallantry under enemy fire.

Has nothing to do with this post, I was just wondering if I am the only one ignorant of this battle?<p.

5 posted on 04/14/2004 10:26:14 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Rebeleye
THIS IS CRAP... A REAL TRIPLE SPLAT FROM THE NORTH END OF A SOUTHBOUND BOVINE!

My ancestors fought for the South in that horrible war. None of them owned slaves. They were sons of a man who had built and preached at an integrated church (Jones Creek Baptist Church) in southeast Georgia.

Lincoln wanted an immense, all-powerful, centralized federal government that would have the power to tell the individual states what they could and could not do. The Southern states preferred things as they were meant by the framers of the Constitution. They went to war over the issue.

The war started on April 12, 1861. The Emancipation Proclaimation was not issued by Lincoln until January 1, 1863. That document was issued as propoganda to incite discourse from within the South to make it easier for the north to have it's heavy handed way. It was a junk document, in that it only applied to the Southern states, which had already, by their Constitutional right, seceeded, removing them from Lincoln's jurisdiction. The document did not address the northern states in which slavery was quite common. Lincoln ststed more than once that he did not think that slavery was a problem. He also stated the the white race was superior to the black race. Lincoln's father-in-law sold his slaves more than two years after the end of the war. He didn't free them... he sold them.

I get so tired of the lies coming from the politically correct government educated idiots and all of the complainers.

Yes, I am a white Christian male from the South. I believe in the Constitution, and swore an oath to defend and protect same from all foes, both foreign and domestic. I am NOT racist. I do not believe in slavery. But, I think we could use a dose of truth in the history that we pass on to our young. How can we learn from history if it's just a friggin mystery???
6 posted on 04/14/2004 10:30:14 AM PDT by Dixie Pirate
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To: stainlessbanner
Hey, SB!

Here's one for the Dixie Ping list.

FReegards,
Reb
7 posted on 04/14/2004 10:33:16 AM PDT by RebelBanker (Deo Vindice)
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To: Monterrosa-24
For politically correct historians to reduce the conflict to the slavery issue alone is absurd.

I'd call it simplistic and disingenuous, but agree with you, nonetheless.

8 posted on 04/14/2004 10:33:28 AM PDT by mountaineer
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To: mountaineer
Furthermore, so many historians with this episode and with others, so love to marginalize bravery. They do not want to admit that Dixon and the Hunley crew had courage and nerve or that David Crocket or N.B. Forrest or Alvin C. York were tough and brave. Yes Mountaineer, your choice of words is the better description.
9 posted on 04/14/2004 10:50:55 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (France kicked Germany's teeth out at Verdun among other places.)
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To: Dixie Pirate
"Lincoln wanted an immense, all-powerful, centralized federal government that would have the power to tell the individual states what they could and could not do."

And he achieved it the second he imposed martial law in Maryland just as they were about to vote to secede.

People wonder why Maryland keeps [stupidly] voting Democrat.
They've never forgotten that grudge even though Maryland Democrats were long ago assimilated by Socialists.


Read the lyrics to "Mayland, My Maryland" to understand the old "official" sentiment.
It's a wonder to me that we're even still allowed to have that song.

History has been so revised that during the 2000 fiasco, I watched a black lady from Baltimore state on TV, with absolute sincerity "I always vote Democrat because it's the party of Mr Lincoln".

WTH?!?


10 posted on 04/14/2004 10:54:04 AM PDT by Salamander
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To: Graybeard58
yes...the Kearsarge sunk the highly-sought Confederate raider CSS Alabama off the coast of France.

BTW, years later we sought and were awarded compensation from Great Britain for having built the Alabama, fully aware that it was a raider destined to prey on US shipping.

wonder if we can get any compensation for all that Frog munitions we are fighting in Fallujah...
11 posted on 04/14/2004 11:03:14 AM PDT by Keith (IT'S ABOUT THE JUDGES)
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To: Rebeleye
The best thing that ever happened to the South was losing the Civil War and staying in the Union. If they had left the Union and become a slave owning state, they would have descended into a disasterous South Africa sort of situation, on a collision course with the 20th Century.
12 posted on 04/14/2004 11:43:37 AM PDT by tkathy (nihilism: absolute destructiveness toward the world at large and oneself)
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To: *dixie_list; Fiddlstix; Southron Patriot; Leatherneck_MT; U S Army EOD; CurlyBill; w_over_w; ...
bump
13 posted on 04/14/2004 11:58:13 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: tkathy
The best thing that ever happened to the South was losing the Civil War and staying in the Union

Hey, it was a dang good thing for the North, also - after all, if the South had won, where would we ship all the geezers each winter?

14 posted on 04/14/2004 12:02:33 PM PDT by dirtboy (John Kerry - Hillary without the fat ankles and the FBI files...)
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To: Graybeard58
Maybe. Captain Semmes' Raider Alabama was a famous/notorious blockade runner and raider. Had his ammunition been in better shape, and the shell which lodged in the Kearsage's rudder post exploded, the battle would have had a different outcome.
15 posted on 04/14/2004 12:08:59 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Nothing, no matter how improbable, which exists, is impossible.)
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To: Rebeleye
Had the WoNA been primarily fought over slavery, then Abe St. Lincoln's thirteenth amendment would have served to avert the war. Its not having been successful leads one to believe other situations contributed more to the rebellion than the attempted fix of the 13th could ease. That reason was Lincoln's tariffs.

Abe St. Lincoln was determined to have his tariffs and sought a military option to enforce them.
16 posted on 04/14/2004 12:28:11 PM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: Rebeleye
The crew of the Hunley were brave men, by any standard. Especially considering that they were not the first crew, and they deserve burial with full military honors, no less.

As for the rest: Northern slave owners (and immigrants who got the really dangerous jobs because they were less valuable than slaves)fight to free southern slaves. YAAAAWN!

Or is this just more 'Massah's great-great-great-great-great grandson owes ME!'

OK, enough denigration of American History. Lets get it over with. Pay 'reparations' in the form of a one-way ticket to Africa, any country, no deposit, no return, revoke citizenship and bye bye. Enough of this sh!t. In or out, love it or leave it, go elsewhere or shut up and get on with the program. It has been 141 years, for Pete's sake.

I really despise the distortion of a critical era in American History for what boils down to monetary gain.

Why? Because if you can't study history (just revised crap) you will never be able to learn from the mistakes of the past.

Sheesh! I suppose the Angles, Jutes, Druids, and Saxons will be next with their hands out over my Norman ancestors' involvement in that little bit back in AD 1066.

17 posted on 04/14/2004 12:30:16 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Nothing, no matter how improbable, which exists, is impossible.)
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To: Rebeleye
Nowhere will it be mentioned that if the eight-man Hunley crew had been on the victorious...4 million black people would have continued to be slaves.

What a specious lot of bovine excrement. If that were true, all of Africa would be enslaved:

In the account which I have thus given of the natives, the reader must bear in mind that my observations apply chiefly to persons of FREE CONDITION, who constitute, I suppose, not more than one-fourth part of the inhabitants at large. The other three-fourths are in a state of hopeless and hereditary slavery, and are employed in cultivating the land, in the care of cattle, and in servile offices of all kinds, much in the same manner as the slaves in the West Indies. I was told, however, that the Mandingo master can neither deprive his slave of life, nor sell him to a stranger, without first calling a palaver on his conduct, or in other words, bringing him to a public trial. But this degree of protection is extended only to the native or domestic slave. Captives taken in war, and those unfortunate victims who are condemned to slavery for crimes or insolvency--and, in short, all those unhappy people who are brought down from the interior countries for sale--have no security whatever, but may be treated and disposed of in all respects as the owner thinks proper.
Mungo Park, Travels in the Interior of Africa, Vol. 1 (from Project Gutenberg )

18 posted on 04/14/2004 12:31:18 PM PDT by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
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To: Rebeleye
The eight men that died in the Hunley were hero's to their side of the Civil War.

The desire of some to turn every single story or factoid into a debate over slavery gets boring after the first 700 times or so.

I've been to the Hunley exhibit, btw, and strongly urge everyone to make the effort to see it.
19 posted on 04/14/2004 12:37:30 PM PDT by Badeye
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To: Salamander
Most people do not recognise the references in their historical context. "The despot's heel is on thy shore" refers to Lincoln. "Avenge the patriotic gore/That flecked the streets of Baltimore" refers to the outcome of riots against invading Northern State Militias.

But then, few realize the State song was written by an expatriate Marylander in Louisiana during the war.

Historically, you have hit the nail precisely on the head.

Maryland did not vote for Lincoln, in fact the handful of people who did vote for him in Charles County were asked (forcefully) to leave.

Had Virginia been more timely in secession, chances are very good that Maryland would have followed suit, but the legislature was placed under house arrest (Habeas Corpus suspended) and interned in Ft. McHenry, forbidden to vote on a bill of secession.

20 posted on 04/14/2004 12:40:19 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Nothing, no matter how improbable, which exists, is impossible.)
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