Vanity: what is a democracy?

[luckyluke]

One thing I often hear here is that the US is not a democracy, it's a republic. I thought voting to elect government defines democracy. Isn't that true? Thus, isn't the US a democracy? And isn't that a good thing?

Also, what is a republic? Isn't it just a synonym for 'country'?

Is there a value judgment associated with the words 'democracy' and 'republic' based on the names of the Democrat and Republican parties?

[harrowup]

I like this one rather than the angels on the head of a pin naysayers who like to rouse the rabble with screams of democracy of the tyrants... Democracy PBS

[Mr. Jeeves]

BTW, are you a Terrence Hill fan?

Even the Greeks understood that a pure democracy was very dangerous. A republic is a reasonable compromise, leaving the business of governing to (hopefully capable) representatives while still giving the people a say in government by letting them choose those representatives. The USA is not a democracy using the classical definition, but a republic - a fact that remains true regardless of the names of the two major parties and the predominant political affiliation of Free Republic posters.

[harrowup]

I believe that we are a Constitutional Republic and the word 'Democracy' does not appear in the Constitution.

Neither does idiot, but we have many.

[detsaoT]

I believe that we are a Constitutional Republic

Nope. We're a Federal Republic, the structure and powers of which are defined and delegated by our Constitution.

You were close enough, though! Much better than 99% of the officials we've elected.

:) ttt

[detsaoT]

To clarify,

A Republic is a highly decentralized government, extending a majority of the powers of governace to the localities (States, Counties, etc.) Most of the nations which call themselves "Republic" are not - China, Germany (both the former DDR and the DFR).

A Federal government is a central form of government, much like the European parliamentary bodies.

Ours is a cross of both, characteristic of the opposing viewpoints which went into creating it - The jeffersonian Democratic Republicans, against the centralist Federalists. Both sides contributed to, and heavily influenced the design of our Constitition, and the viewpoints of both created the form of government which we have today, which, imho, is absolutely unique amongst the nations.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

:) ttt

[Ramius]

Strictly speaking, in a pure democracy the people would vote on everything-- every law. Even back in the founder's time it would have been cumbersome and unworkable. A republic is a compromise, where democracy is exercised via the proxy of representatives.

It also has the effect of buffering the inertia of popular mandate. It slows down change in government, and like it or not that's a good thing.

It has nothing at all to do with the roots for the words Democrat or Republican. If anything, the roots are reversed.

[Illbay]

Don't let the hide-bound fanatics get to you. Our form of government is that of a Republic, yes.

But our means of electing our leaders and approving legislation at the local level is "democratic."

It is true that the states and the central government function as a representative republic, as they should. But when you vote for your governor, it is by a majority of the voters of your state. When you vote for your Senator, the same. Your U.S. Representative, the majority of votes in that district, and so on.

A true "Democracy" as a form of government would entail a plebescite--voting by all eligible citizens--for every law or change of law that came down. We obviously don't have that, nor is there any threat of it.

So, don't let the firebreathers that infest this site rattle you. They simply use a hypersensitivity to certain keywords like "democracy" as a trigger for rants that truly have no meaning, since there doesn't appear to be any sort of credible threat to ending our present form of government.

[ancient_geezer]

re·pub·lic
n.

1. 1. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
   2. A nation that has such a political order.
2. 1. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
   2. A nation that has such a political order.
3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.

 

Training Manual
No. 20000-25
War Department
Washington, November 30, 1928

CITIZENSHIP
Prepared under the direction of the
Chief of Staff
This Manual Supersedes Manual of Citizenship Training

DEMOCRACY:

• A government of the masses.
• Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
• Results in mobocracy.
• Attitude toward property is communistic-negating property rights.
• Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
• Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

REPUBLIC:

• Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
• Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.
• Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accordance with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
• A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
• Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.
• Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment and progress.
• Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

---

A democracy, according to the above definition,  is actually controlled by a demagogue, defined as:

"A speaker who seeks to make capital of social discontent and gain political influence."

Alexander Hamilton was aware of the tendency of a democratic form of government to be torn apart by itself, and he has been quoted as writing:

"We are now forming a Republican form of government.   Real Liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of dictatorship."

James Madison wrote:

"In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger!"

Another was John Adams who wrote:

"Unbridled passions produce the same effects, whether in a king, nobility, or a mob. The experience of all mankind has proved the prevalence of a disposition to use power wantonly. It is therefore as necessary to defend an individual against the majority (in a democracy) as against the king in a monarchy."

---

"Did I say, "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive."

Westbrook Pegler in the NY Journal American, January 25^th & 26^th, 1951 under the titles "Upholds Republic of U.S. Against Phony Democracy" and "Democracy in the U.S. Branded Meaningless."

[village idiot]

But when you cast a vote for President, you're actually voting for an electoral college member, not the candidate. The electoral college ensures representation by sparsely populated areas, otherwise candidates would only visit NY City, Los Angeles, etc., and NO ONE would bother with lesser populated areas. This concept seems difficult for those still whinning about Gore "getting the popular vote."

hide-bound fanatics

firebreathers that infest this site

Easy there big fella.......!

[jodorowsky]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

Alexander Tyler

[Ward Smythe]

...there doesn't appear to be any sort of credible threat to ending our present form of government.

I hope that wasn't supposed to make us feel better...

[ancient_geezer]

Unfortunately the same applies to Republics(only it take more time), when the reigns of government lay in the hands of a small number of political factions(i.e. Parties) electing representatives on the basis of stands on issures as opposed to the moral capacity of the office holder.

[Hoosier Patriot]

there doesn't appear to be any sort of credible threat to ending our present form of government.

Well, since I view our present form of government as Incremental Socialism, I would have to agree with you. But what do I know, I'm just a person who cares deeply about what I and others see happening to our country, and we see things that don't bode well at all for the future.

Or, I'm just a firebreathing pest, as you see me. Tell me, do you see our government the same way as I do?

[Illbay]

Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers...

Except that it isn't normally used that way here. While I agree that we need to be better-educated as to terminology, etc., most people when they say "democracy" are referring to the means used to elect our representatives and other officers, not the form of our government itself.

Now, if you want to point out that those who call George W. Bush an "illegitimate President" and are callling for direct election of the President, are such "intellectual fakers" and demagogues, then I will agree with you.

But too often I see this argument used by teeth-gnashers that are more interested in winning an argument by sophistry, than sincerely concerned about educating the ignorant.