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1 posted on 02/25/2002 7:50:23 AM PST by luckyluke
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To: luckyluke
I like this one rather than the angels on the head of a pin naysayers who like to rouse the rabble with screams of democracy of the tyrants... Democracy PBS
3 posted on 02/25/2002 7:58:03 AM PST by harrowup
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To: luckyluke
BTW, are you a Terrence Hill fan?

Even the Greeks understood that a pure democracy was very dangerous. A republic is a reasonable compromise, leaving the business of governing to (hopefully capable) representatives while still giving the people a say in government by letting them choose those representatives. The USA is not a democracy using the classical definition, but a republic - a fact that remains true regardless of the names of the two major parties and the predominant political affiliation of Free Republic posters.

4 posted on 02/25/2002 7:58:28 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: luckyluke
Strictly speaking, in a pure democracy the people would vote on everything-- every law. Even back in the founder's time it would have been cumbersome and unworkable. A republic is a compromise, where democracy is exercised via the proxy of representatives.

It also has the effect of buffering the inertia of popular mandate. It slows down change in government, and like it or not that's a good thing.

It has nothing at all to do with the roots for the words Democrat or Republican. If anything, the roots are reversed.

8 posted on 02/25/2002 8:13:48 AM PST by Ramius
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To: luckyluke
Don't let the hide-bound fanatics get to you. Our form of government is that of a Republic, yes.

But our means of electing our leaders and approving legislation at the local level is "democratic."

It is true that the states and the central government function as a representative republic, as they should. But when you vote for your governor, it is by a majority of the voters of your state. When you vote for your Senator, the same. Your U.S. Representative, the majority of votes in that district, and so on.

A true "Democracy" as a form of government would entail a plebescite--voting by all eligible citizens--for every law or change of law that came down. We obviously don't have that, nor is there any threat of it.

So, don't let the firebreathers that infest this site rattle you. They simply use a hypersensitivity to certain keywords like "democracy" as a trigger for rants that truly have no meaning, since there doesn't appear to be any sort of credible threat to ending our present form of government.

9 posted on 02/25/2002 8:18:40 AM PST by Illbay
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To: luckyluke
re·pub·lic
n.
    1. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.
    1. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
    2. A nation that has such a political order.
  1. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
  2. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
  3. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.

 

Training Manual
No. 20000-25
War Department
Washington, November 30, 1928

CITIZENSHIP
Prepared under the direction of the
Chief of Staff
This Manual Supersedes Manual of Citizenship Training

DEMOCRACY:

REPUBLIC:


A democracy, according to the above definition,  is actually controlled by a demagogue, defined as:

"A speaker who seeks to make capital of social discontent and gain political influence."

Alexander Hamilton was aware of the tendency of a democratic form of government to be torn apart by itself, and he has been quoted as writing:

"We are now forming a Republican form of government.   Real Liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of dictatorship."

James Madison wrote:

"In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger!"

Another was John Adams who wrote:

"Unbridled passions produce the same effects, whether in a king, nobility, or a mob. The experience of all mankind has proved the prevalence of a disposition to use power wantonly. It is therefore as necessary to defend an individual against the majority (in a democracy) as against the king in a monarchy."


"Did I say, "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive."

Westbrook Pegler in the NY Journal American, January 25th & 26th, 1951 under the titles "Upholds Republic of U.S. Against Phony Democracy" and "Democracy in the U.S. Branded Meaningless."


12 posted on 02/25/2002 8:32:16 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: luckyluke
We are a certain type of Republic. Forrest McDonald refered to it as layered because we have a Federal Government which is a Republic and State Governments which are guaranteed by the US Constitution to be Republics in themselves. Local governments are almost universally subdivisions or recognized entities of the state governments.

That being said, our Federal Republic is also a representative republic as opposed to a republic with direct democracy or composed of delegates from seperate soverign members (although prior to the 17th amendment, Senators were selected by their states). These representatives are selected by a variety of processes which relate to democratic principles and sensitivities but are varied to produce stability in government.

Elections and appointments (executive department heads, and judges are appointed remember) of these representatives are held at varied and stipulated times, not at the whim of voters and so as to not wholesale change all offices. Recall that Congressional Representatives are elected by a majority of their districts every two years, while Senators change every six. Presidents are elected by State electors, selected by the voters of a state and with varied restrictions as adopted by State's legislatures. Judges are appointed and confirmed by legislators for the most part, but they are appointed by elected officials. The mere variety of the process then adds stability and continuity.

Our legislators are thought to continue the British Parliment traditions as best outlined by Burke. (1) Representatives from and not of. In otherwords, you may be a congressman from Missouri but you are not a delegate of Missouri. You don't represent the State, your oath is to the Constitution, and you deceide for and represent the whole nation in your actions. And, (2) representatives are thought to be deliberative representatives rather than pliebisitary delegates. The deliberative representative goes to the capital to study an issue in question in our place, in depth, and to vote his reasoned conscience consistant with his oath of office. He is not there to vote his wants, his constitutants' daily fluctuating wants or whims or only his local interest.

But in all its history, this land has had a tradition of Participatory Government. That grand tradition, which made it bristle at George the Third's Parliment across the ocean, and kept us involved in detail beyond the tradition of the europeans has been shorthandedly refered to as Democracy. The conservatives' constant reference to a Republic is to be understood as the reasoned response to the serpent of radicals that would have the citizenry use their government wrongly, thwart its foundations and destroy our heritage.

A Layered Republic, Federal and State, chosing Deliberative Representation by varied Democratic Constitutional means ever vigil in the citizens' Participation, while guarding against the Tyrany of the Majority and Tyrants.

24 posted on 02/25/2002 10:06:50 AM PST by KC Burke
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To: luckyluke
A democracy is akin to "mob" rule whereas a representative republic is developed under a system of debate and laws . Except that in our case a lying mob of legislaters got into power and decided to stick their hands into our pockets because the demo-mob told them to. And they didn't have the guts to "just say no!" It began to fall apart way back when non-property owners got the vote.

or something like that........i think

27 posted on 02/25/2002 10:18:52 AM PST by patriot_wes
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To: luckyluke
One thing I often hear here is that the US is not a democracy, it's a republic. I thought voting to elect government defines democracy. Isn't that true? Thus, isn't the US a democracy? And isn't that a good thing?

It all depends on what the meaning of is is.

Democracy can be used to describe a government which is subject to democratic elections. This is a good thing as it is part of rule by consent of the governed.

However, the general principle of democracy (rule of the majority), unrestrained, is quite dangerous. This is the substance of the protest to the assertion, the US is a democracy. Unrestrained democracy is a bad thing in that it leads to the trampling of individual rights.

Here are some links for you if you're interest is deeper that the labeling issue.

Democracy

Republic and Democracy

Free Republic Search: democracy


28 posted on 02/25/2002 10:31:16 AM PST by Database
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To: luckyluke
This is a great thread because I believe there are certain people in this country that want a pure democracy here in America.
46 posted on 02/28/2002 7:50:09 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: luckyluke
The United States is currently a democratic republic not the aristocratic republic the founders gave us.

For an excellent explanation of democracies, democratic republics, monarchies (as well as a great history and economics lesson) pick up a copy of "DEMOCRACY-The God That Failed" by Hans-Hermann Hoppe.

47 posted on 03/06/2002 9:56:28 PM PST by A44MAGNUT
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