The New Covenant Standard

13 In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. If we are in the same waiting stage that Paul was in, only for us, we have to die first, then we DO NOT HAVE A BETTER COVENANT!!

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Here is where Paul stops quoting prophecy and adds his comment. The "new covenant" he is speaking of is the one in effect as he speaks, he is simply interpreting prophecy, not suddenly adding that this new covenant he was in then was waxing old. He is referring to the passing of the ancient Jewish covenant which was crippled and about to be brought to judgement, to vanish away in AD70.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The proof of this is the very next verse in Hebrews 9, Paul continues in the same vein, describing the old covenant, what it consisted of.

Hebrews 9: 1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

He was never referring to the passing of the only new covenant then in effect as if it was somehow ready to vanish. We are in that very covenant he was speaking of.

He was never referring to the passing of the only new covenant then in effect as if it was somehow ready to vanish. We are in that very covenant he was speaking of

Paul was not in the New Covenant yet. Read again verse 13 of Heb 8:

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The New is not in effect until the Old is gone.
I believe this because all had to be put under Christ's feet BEFORE the New would be in effect.

Heb 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 then to wait until his enemies should be made a stool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," 17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more." 18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

This is not a covenant Paul dealt with in full because there sins and misdeeds would be very much remembered at the judgment.

All was not under Christ's feet yet:
2:8 putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. As it is, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.

Their promise they were waiting for was life. The "further clothing" (change), or in the case of the dead, the resurrection. As I have posted numerous times.
It was only then, that death was defeated, who's sting was sin and who's power was the law. Christ had defeated it at His resurrection, but only for Himself. When He returned and the dead rose, and the alive "changed", then it was defeated for all men, for all time. And only then, at the total defeat (for all) of the law and sin and death, was the New Covenant in effect. 1 Cor 15:26,35-37,50-56. Hebrews 2:8, Heb 8:10-13. Heb 10:13-18.

Instead of being childish, tell me what serious questions you want anwsers to so I can apologize and try to do my best with them.

What is a "spirit body?" Does it have fingers, eyes, tongues? Is it a body, but without skin? (Yuck!) These are serious question, by the way. The Bible specifically speaks of these things, not as metaphores, belonging to people after death.

One like Christ's I would imagine. One that probably walks through walls. One that materializes and then doesn't. But the difference between Christ's and ours, is His was the original body He was born with, reanimated.
Ours will not be. Ours will be revealed (or grown in a way) at our death.

15:35 But some one will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" 15:36 You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 15:37 And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.

You can say my view is wrong, but Paul calls you foolish if you think that our roting flesh will be reanimated into a body like Christs.
No. We have recieved an alltogether new one (clothed with life 2 Cor 5:4) which will shed this old sinful one at death, like a seed!

Now, if he did not have the same kind of nature as is brethren, then He was not made like them in "all things."

Christ was born of Mary, in a HUMAN FLESH AND BONE BODY! Not from ADAMS seed, but Abrahams.
Aren't you a dispensationalist?
Adams covenant, the one that was broken to usher in sin, Christ did NOT partake of that sin nature or He would have been spiritually dead as we were. But He was born by the Holy Spirit.
Abrahams covenant, the one of the promise, the one of faith, the seed, Christ was Abrahams seed (Born through Mary).

As for the nonsense about Jesus being the seed of Abraham through "faith," does that mean Jesus was "born again" into family of Abraham like we are? And why would Jesus need to be born again?

No, it means He was born of Mary, not Joseph. He was born of the Holy Spirit, not Joseph. He was divine, not spiritually dead, as we. He was LIKE his brethren, but not of the sin nature, or He would have needed to be born again

I'm sorry if I have offended you. I believe you are sincere, and truly seeking the truth, but I fear that your heart has been moved from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Cor. 11:3) You do admit that you "system" is not exactly simple, and requires quite a bit of explanation, don't you? You have been doing a lot of explaining.

I appreciate the grace shown inn the remainder of your post.

I am not a scholar, not vey old, and not very complex in my mind. Once I came to the belief of Christ's return in AD 70. All this became very simple to me. I do not use study guides, notes or anything, but many of my friends who believe CHrist returned, as I do, agree on these principles without having to debate them. It seems to have a clarity of a message once we relized our place in the history of man. The redeemed of the ages, after the return.

May the Lord bless and keep you.
I hope we can continue discussions civily as I believe we have maintained so far.

Nate

You can say my view is wrong, but Paul calls you foolish if you think that our roting flesh will be reanimated into a body like Christs. No. We have recieved an alltogether new one (clothed with life 2 Cor 5:4) which will shed this old sinful one at death, like a seed!

I just have one question. When you say, "which will shed this old sinful one," do you mean the "body."

If you do, do you ascribe sin to a substance rather than to choices and actions, neither of which the body is capable of?

Hank

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