The Photian schism: history and legend (and the two 8th Ecumenical Councils)

Google E Books ^ | 1948 | Francis Dvornik

[NRx]

An examination of the history and background to the so called Photian Schism of the 9th Century, one of the most important events in the history of the early Church. It also discusses in detail the two competing synods (AD 869-70 and 879-80) that claimed to be the 8th Ecumenical Council. Both synods enjoyed recognition by the pre-Schism Church as the Eighth Ecumenical Council. The earlier synod until it was annulled by the Council of 879-80. and the latter for about two centuries. The Church of Rome switched its support back to the earlier synod in the 11th century which it has ever since held to be the Eighth Council. The Orthodox Church however stands by the later Synod as the true Eighth Council.

[NRx]

Caveat: This post is likely to be of limited (or no) interest to anyone not drawn to First Millennium church history. It was inspired by this very long thread...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3270351/posts

The work is a scholarly book that is probably the most commonly cited on the subject among academics to the present day. Finding it in E Book form was a very pleasant surprise as print copies tend to run over $50.00. I am not expecting a lively thread here (I am only about a quarter of the way into the book myself), but I post it for anyone who might have an interest.

[freedumb2003]

Lickable clink: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3270351/posts

I will spend some quality time reading the whole thing. We owe it to God and Christ to be educated on all things ecumenical.

I am not ready to return to the Church but she will always be my sister whom I will protect.

[Falconspeed]

Thank you for the excellent topic. Thank you for the book link. I am glad to have access to the fine book by Fr. Francis Dvornak (1893-1975). He wrote:

“Photius (810-891) is stated to have inspired Luther, Calvin, Melanchthon and other famous reformers...” (p. 1).

True. Photis was a brilliant Aristotelian logician and Biblical scholar. He concluded that he was God and his miracles of flying and healing strengthened his conclusion. His three thousand or so followers also looked to him as God.

Thus, the false pride of Photius is exactly like the false pride of Luther, Calvin, and all other apostates and heretics who think they are smarter than the Lord who designed a Church with Popes and sacraments.

I trust that the readers here are familiar with Hans Jonas (1903-1993) who wrote a wonderful book about Gnostic religions. http://bit.ly/1xwl5X1. People have always created new religions out of thin air, such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Scientology, Christian Science, etc.

[NRx]

I note that there are pages missing. :-(

It looks like I am going to have buy a print copy of this book.

[NRx]

Please, can we refrain from polemical attacks. And this...

“He concluded that he was God and his miracles of flying and healing strengthened his conclusion. His three thousand or so followers also looked to him as God.”

...is at best silly, and at worst slander that would embarrass even his critics. Let’s try and keep both feet firmly planted on the ground, and in the real world.

[xone]

the false pride of Photius is exactly like the false pride of Luther, Calvin, and all other apostates and heretics who think they are smarter than the Lord

The flying Reformers.

[The_Reader_David]

Actually, if we’re going to talk about a problem with pride in the controversies surrounding the patriarchate of St. Photius the Great, it would seem to rest with Pope Nicholas, who overruled the findings of his own legates simply as an exercise in power, and arrogated to himself the right to judge the treatment of the deposed St. Ignatius (yes, both Patriarchs of Constantinople involved in the controversy have had their glorification proclaimed), rather than following the Canon of Sardica which permitted the Pope of Rome to appoint three Metropolitans from neighboring provinces of the church to judge cases involving bishops who claimed mistreatment at the hands of their own Holy Synod.

I’m underwhelmed by the assertion in the passive voice “is stated”. Is stated by whom? Latins who want to vilify him for his critique of the heretical filioque and defense of the original order of the Church against the overweening claims of the Roman Papacy. The “reformers” can’t actually have taken much inspiration from him since they either retained the heretical interpolation in the Creed or dropped Creed St. Photius defended altogether. Of the confessions that broke off from Rome after the Partiarchate of Rome’s schism from the Church, only the Hussites returned to the original Creed, which is perhaps not surprising since both Jan Hus and Jerome of Prague — or rather, the Holy New-Martys Jan and Jerome as they are called by the Orthodox Church of Slovakia and the Czech Lands — went to their deaths calling for a return to the Faith and ecclesiastical order Sts. Cyril and Methodius had brought to the Slavs.

[vladimir998]

“...and his miracles of flying...”

Never heard that one before about Photios.

[Falconspeed]

Good points. You know your stuff, for sure.

Pride is a problem for everyone. Thank you for clarifying the link between the Creed and Jan Huss and Jerome of Prague.

I shall pray to St. Cyril for safety in storms, to St. Methodius for the unity of Eastern and Western churches, and to St. Ignatius for healing of throat diseases. However, I am not convinced that prayers to Photius and Huss will be productive. As you probably know, John Paul II visited the Hills of Crosses in Lithuania in 1993. The photo always makes me pause and pray.

[Falconspeed]

Thank you. I acknowledge your request for courtesy. The statement about flying and pride is not meant to be an attack but simply a reference to the scholarship of Burgess Laughlin. I feel motivated to retrace my steps. The positive is that Photius preserved early Greek and Christian documents. The negative is that Photius used the "fioloque" problem to imply that Rome is heretical.

[Falconspeed]

Filioque