Well, Tery; if you'll just look at the first part of your statement here...
Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
now that is among the most illogical posts I've ever read...
Is it time for Strawman Building 101 lessons AGAIN
Oh; me too!
You are SO right!
You just lost Tery's support!
AHHHhhh...
Art, Tery and Vlad: the Triad of Temperance.
Well, Tery; if you'll just look at the first part of your statement here...
I love the smell of elderberries in the morning!
Only a very fearful person continues to avoid dealing with reply #352.
Yes.
Rome says there is NONE.
Rome says there is.
And the Terrible Trio here on FR blame PROTESTants for being confused or misled!
“Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is “the all holy one,” is to be prayed to, worshipped”
People can say/write/blog that all they want until the end of time, and it still will be a false statement.
(it would improve your case if you'd actually DEAL with the SOURCES; don't you think?)
And yet "mess with it" is exactly what the Catholic Church has done. It began at least with Jerome and maybe before that. As an example, it's Jerome who changed the words in 1:28 to include "full of grace". When other translators used the Hebrew and Greek rather than the Latin from Jerome which the Catholic Church still uses they don't have that phrase. There are other places as well such as in Genesis where it says that "she" will crush the serpents head instead of "He".
The Catholic way is to include just enough truth but then redirect.
It seems to me to be hypocrisy to attack Catholics without revealing one's own affiliation. Would you agree ?
Lady of Perpetual Help Novenas
First Novena Prayer ( 1st. and 5th. Saturday)
Behold at thy feet, O Mother of Perpetual Help,| a wretched sinner who has recourse to thee and confides in thee.| O Mother of mercy, have pity on me. I hear thee called by all the refuge and the hope of sinners:| be then, my refuge and my hope.
Assist me, for the love of Jesus Christ;| stretch forth thy hand to a miserable fallen creature who recommends himself to thee, and who devotes himself to thy service for ever.| I bless and thank Almighty God, who in His mercy has given me this confidence in thee,| which I hold to be a pledge of my eternal salvation.|
It is true that in the past I have miserably fallen into sin,| because I had not recourse to thee.| I know that, with thy help, I shall conquer.| I know too, that thou wilt assist me, if I recommend myself to thee;| but I fear dear Mother | that in time of danger, I may neglect to call on thee,| and thus lose my soul.| This grace, then, I ask of thee, and this I beg, with all the fervor of my soul,| that in all the attacks of hell I may ever have recourse to thee.| O Mary, help me.| O Mother of Perpetual Help, never suffer me to lose my God.
3 Ave’s
Hail Mary , full of grace , the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, JESUS. R: Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Second Novena Prayer (2nd. and 4th. Saturday) O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O purest Mary, O sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me, whenever I call on thee; for, in all my temptations, in all my needs, I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary. O what consolation, what sweetness, what confidence, what emotion fills my soul when I utter thy sacred name, or even only think of thee. I thank the Lord for having given thee, for my good, so sweet, so powerful, so lovely a name. But I will not be content with merely uttering thy name. Let my love for thee prompt me ever to hail thee, Mother of Perpetual Help.
3 Ave’s
Third Novena Prayer ( 3rd. Saturday)
O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery.
Thou are the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me amongst thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou wilt protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. 3 Ave’s
P: Pray for us O Holy Mother of God
R: That we may be made worthy of the promises of eternal life
From the Catechism of the Catholic church....
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”510
Names of God from the Bible. Compare them to the names given to Mary in the above prayer.
Jesus
Hope (our) - 1 Timothy 1:1
Counselor - Isaiah 9:6
Advocate - 1 John 2:1
Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24
Holy Spirit
Comforter - John 14:26
Helper – John 14:16
This is worship of Mary if ever there was.....Attributing to her the attributes of God is idolatry.
And after that she became so inconsequential that they don’t even know where she lived until she died. They don’t know if she lived in Jerusalem or Bethlehem or Ephesus.
Wow! You is one old coot Elsie.
And we ain't seen nothin yet. Better get the cracker jack and popcorn made this is going to get interesting.
It's obvious to anyone but those who have been indoctrinated and/or blinded.
No, because it's not comparing doctrinal differences between Catholicism and another denominations.
It's comparing the teachings and doctrines of the Catholic church to SCRIPTURE. Since SCRIPTURE is without doctrinal affiliation, there is no need to associate any particular church with it.
Catholicism can be shown to be wrong about a number of things simply by comparing it to a ordinary, clear reading of Scripture. The only ones who can't see that are the ones who have been indoctrinated by their church and have had it *interpreted* for them.
Additionally, Catholics do have their own personal interpretation of Scripture. Their accepting the Catholic churches interpretation is still a personal decision based on heir interpretation that the Catholic church is correct. They just let someone else do the thinking for them and go for the group hug kind of mentality.
BTW, If you think that anybody can't see through that lame attempt through manipulation to find out church affiliation, you've got another thing coming. People know when they're being baited. Using twelve year old tactics to try to coerce information does not speak well of anyone.
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