Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
“Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is “the all holy one,” is to be prayed to, worshipped”
People can say/write/blog that all they want until the end of time, and it still will be a false statement.
What’s the worry? The Pope is a lot better man than ObaMao, whom Warren already embraced.
If this is the first time these guys had a problem with Warren, then, well, I’m not sure what to say.
Rick Warren is correct. The Catholic Church venerates Mary, but not as a "god."
To your point, Warren is above all, Slick and IMHO all PR, little substance, if any.
Good point!
Warren also is actively involved with the United Nations Agenda 21 Campaign. Saddleback Community Church (a part of the Southern Baptist Convention) is a United Nations recognized Nongovernmental Organization. Warren also advocates that there are many ways to christ. Warren also advocates the New World On Church. Come on lets face it Warren is a New Age Porpoise Age of Aquarius believer. I remeber when his book the Purpose Driven Church was a mandatory part of the Curriculia. When a number of seminary students approached the Seminary President the book was removed from the requireemnts. The Association of Theological Schools accrediation has changed so much since I attended seminary back in the early to mid 90s.
The church of today is much different. I will honestly say that Christians must be discerning of what is happening in the Church, political correctness has moved into the church.
“Rick Warren is correct. The Catholic Church venerates Mary, but not as a “god.””
Really, she is treated exactly like pagans treated demigods. Sort of most of the way to God, but not quite there. Still wrong.
Not as a “god” but a “goddess”. The term Queen of Heaven and Mother of God is close enough for pagan work.
” Warren is above all, Slick and IMHO all PR, little substance, if any.”
MANY OF US share your opinion.
Mary is a creature and in Heaven and the pure sinless mother of the Savior, and thus the highest of all creatures,i.e., Queen of Heaven. Jesus is God as well as man, so obviously his mother is Mother of God. Are you saying Mary is not in Heaven and that Jesus is not God?
I'm saying that
(1) Mary is NOT a pure sinless mother
(2) Mary is dead.
(3) God has no beginning or end, obviously Mary is NOT the mother of God.
Please do check it out at #292 (LINK)
I really think 99% of the non-Catholic misapprehension of this, is unfamiliarity with Biblical courtly behavior.
Praying to anybody who isn’t God is idolatry.
Indeed you are.........and that's the problem.
Individualism and subjectivism have decimated American congregationalism.
:)
is how you posed the question in post #12 and I answered it in like fashion.
"Indeed you are.........and that's the problem."
For you maybe. Not for me. I am supposed to think for myself. God says so in Isaiah 1:18 "Come now, let us reason together" says the Lord. Not let some priest or denomination do my thinking for me to follow blindly.
Eph 413 ....until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God.
This is the prophetic promise of God to his church, we will be one with the Father and Son as they are one.
The goats, tares and dogs will be removed. So all the church’s doctrinal positions will for once and all be aligned with the Word of God. That means there will be great changes brought by the hand of God to his church. The upheaval with the Baptists alone will be massive as it will be for Catholics and all who neglect the Word of God for traditions and sunk faith.
Jesus is returning for his church without spot or wrinkle, who worship him in Spirit and truth. So I am, not worried about false doctrines, or what goats do or don’t do, or those who declare the Holy Spirit powerless, God will do what he will do and he will unite his church.
The goats will cry Lord Lord, and the dogs who lied about the Holy Spirit will have their reward.
Actually I see that is was Unam Sanctam that said that in post #12. But go ahead and gang up on me, I don’t mind.
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